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W+P 2022 ?


Alan

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1 hour ago, BC312 said:

Been talking to a mate who went to the recent Stoneleigh  show, high prices on deacts £14,000 for a .30cal water cooled MG. Stall wise not that impressive with high prices on a lot of things, not like the usual shows they have, may be a reflection on what will be at the W&P show. I was also told by the grapevine that the re-enactors have to pay for the battle display out of their own pocket about £4,000. Gun hire, blanks and pyro. Hardly encouraging to book there. 

Yep a few of us went and not impressed with the prices. One bloke had a 50cal mount with the skeleton of the skate and wanted £2000 for it. Obviously he would be taking that home with him. Unlike other years you could have a good barter with the sellers but most prices were firm. My mate bought a pair of ammo boots which had no laces but they had them for sale, asked if he would throw a set of laces in,  he said no but you can buy a set.  

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9 hours ago, BC312 said:

Been talking to a mate who went to the recent Stoneleigh  show, high prices on deacts £14,000 for a .30cal water cooled MG. Stall wise not that impressive with high prices on a lot of things, not like the usual shows they have, may be a reflection on what will be at the W&P show. I was also told by the grapevine that the re-enactors have to pay for the battle display out of their own pocket about £4,000. Gun hire, blanks and pyro. Hardly encouraging to book there. 

Did I get this right, it's at the W&P show that the re-enactors have to pay for puting on their show themselves? 
I accept the fact, that smaller vehicles pay their own fuel when driving round the arena, but I would expect the heavy and tracked vehicles that put on a show in the arena get some fuel from the organizers, or is that a thing of the past too ?

As living history participants, we have to pay £20 på person this year. All in all, I can accept that. In the entryform you are asked if you need any form of trenches or other fortification. I will have to ask if that has to be paid extra for. 

A quick count of stallholders at W&P says 132 different companies at W&P so there may be a bit more competition pricewise than at Stoneleigh....??
 

 

Edited by Christian F.
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A count of 132 different stall holders, depends what stall holders they are. In the last few years there was an increase of tut stalls selling general public crap like toys, games, balloons, stuff you see at a local market, not military stalls, that are on the decline.

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You are absolutely right. Some of the names on the list I can recognise from previous years, some names say the sort of goods they sell but many are just names and you dont get a clue. 

Has the general surplus market come to a stop during Covid? The stuff must be out there somewhere, so lets hope someone brings a Ton..... prices cant stay high when nobody is buying. 

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Has anyone a copy of the "small print"? I have been told that it says in effect "no refunds/roll overs if we cancel, no matter why we do it". Can anyone confirm or deny this? Reading/guessing between the lines for the "reason" to cancel, it seems that they are saying there was no infrastructure available to hire (toilets, showers etc???) when they started looking in February? That being the case, why not say so instead of taking bookings from April onwards. I have neither booked in nor paid but I would be mightily p!ssed off if I had! Cancellation notice says "see you in 2023". Yeh, right!!!

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Just now, snowdrop358 said:

I wonder if the real reason is that many people balked at the price rise and attendance was so reduced that it wasn't worth doing? I also wonder where this leaves those who were deferred from 20 and 21? 

It will leave them if they are QUICK. at the small claims court. As the website states no refunds if cancelled I Believe?......

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1 hour ago, John Pearson said:

Has anyone a copy of the "small print"? I have been told that it says in effect "no refunds/roll overs if we cancel, no matter why we do it". Can anyone confirm or deny this? Reading/guessing between the lines for the "reason" to cancel, it seems that they are saying there was no infrastructure available to hire (toilets, showers etc???) when they started looking in February? That being the case, why not say so instead of taking bookings from April onwards. I have neither booked in nor paid but I would be mightily p!ssed off if I had! Cancellation notice says "see you in 2023". Yeh, right!!!

I’ve been asking for a 2020 dated copy of there terms and conditions but surprise surprise there’s still been no reply!!

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26 minutes ago, MartinN said:

Well been going for a good number of years the last few years the show has steadily declined. Sorry for those that have paid already. But I think overall it’s probably best it ends. 

Yes, ends with the PRESENT 'Owners'. But will be pleased to see it 'revived' by someone else. who actually Understands These shows. & actually LISTENS to exhibitors & Reenactor's!....

 

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The guy is a hard business man. He`s in it to make money and if he can`t he`s gonna make sure he can get his ares out of it without it costing him. It`s a totally horrible situation for people who have fronted their hard earned money to be messed about with. Would be interesting to know what The Hop Farm think about this "circus".  

 

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7 hours ago, gordonb said:

Well presumably the time slot at the Hop Farm is now free, maybe we should all just roll up for one day? No camping or entertainment necessary.

 

Something similar happened out here last year but for other reasons. "Formal" gatherings were not allowed due to all the constraints under Covid (which varied almost weekly, sometimes daily). But the camping grounds, caravan parks and motels etc were open for business outside of the lockdown period. You were allowed to go on holidays and if you happened to do so at the same location as your friends then that was not mentioned in the restrictions as long as you didn't "gather" in numbers that exceeded the indoor or arena density limits.....

For a certain part of the year however, we were locked down and you weren't allowed to do anything except buy food, effectively.

When you really think about it, what is the purpose of the Beltring event for most people?

1) Going to see the vehicles.

2) The  dealers and their wares aka the "swap meet".

All the fluff, such as stage shows, bars etc and dare I say it the re-enactors are what differentiate it from  a regular vehicle show and swap meet and there to attract the public through the gate and thus bring in the money.

It is the fluff that seems to be what justifies all the expense now that it is nothing more than a business. For all the criticism he got, Rex did appear to be an enthusiast first and looking to cover costs and maybe make a profit 2nd.

When we were there, we attended none of fluff as by the end of the day in 1999 and 2000 we were too stuffed from the full day of vehicle activity and walking the enourmous swap meet to do anything other than sit around at our base camp and enjoy the company of friends over a nice BBQ in the evening.

Should, and I know it is probably an outside chance, a new Beltring (note I didn't say W&P) arise from the ashes Phoenix like, it would be a very good opportunity to get back to basics and thus dramatically shrug off all the fluff and thus premium fees that come with it.

Edited by dgrev
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Also comeing from abroad, we enjoyed a big and different show with lots of things to participate in. The key word here is "participate". 
You were a part of the show, therefore you felt responsibility for makeing the show great. You and your group were appreciated by the organisers (Rex & Co). 
The goodies we could buy at the stalls was a major feature as well. Lots to choose from and all the gear you did not know you couldn't live without. The bits and bobs you could get at the stalls was great, they saved my home journey many times.
The evenings in the beer tent have given many fun hours, lots of memories and many new friends....remember the beach party? 
The show also gave meaning to our hobby by giving us the oppertunity to introduce it to the general public. In this way we could get better understanding from "Joe public" and maybe get a new club member or two. 
Even though it's hard to admit, we are all just custodians for the items we own and preserve. If there is noone to take care of them after we ride off into the sunset, then it will all have been for no reason.....we will have failed the history we do so much to educate others about and preserve.

This show must not just be blown away, I do hope some good people with the right mindset will "revive" it no matter what the show name will be....
timeslot and venue is now vaccant..

...now for some Kleenex 🙂  

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Although there is a lot of sentiment and good memories with the show its time to move on find another venue that will appreciate our hobby. Its up to everyone to find another show and make it as big and popular as Beltring, an easier location, more accommodating especially with our foreign guests. This year will be a fact finding mission for all to visit other shows to see where the replacement will be.

The time slot when W&P was held will be interesting as other shows held their events around it, no good organising a show when everyone was attending W&P a week before and a week after. At the end of the day, its follow the crowd, i hear from shooting the breeze and talking scuttlebutt with others that the Victory show is the new venue to go to, family run, entrance fee includes an airshow as well, with WW2 only aircraft and they look after re enactors etc. Stalls are small but that could get bigger.

Edited by BC312
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This Show is far too big to let it fade into History & memories! Yes, the present 'Owner' is indeed, a VERY Hard Bussiness man. & that has been His undoing!....

Dont Fret too much good people! Due to the above, There WILL be another Genuine enthusiast who will step up. & start again with an attitude that is similar to. The way this show was run originally!... Yes it WILL be a Money making Process of course. It could not happen otherwise! But, To get it up & running & established with a similar Reputation of Old. Exhibitors & Reenactors will not be charged for entering thier pride & joys to that show!

As has been stated previously by Myself. & Others MANY Times. 'Without US, you wouldnt have a Show'!...& THAT will be recognised by the new 'Saviour' who takes up the Baton with a new Attitude towards Establishing The Beltring Expirience. Of those Halcyon Days we all loved & Remember with Fondness!....

ONLY with that 'Formula' with it get People back on side & supporting. What was once a World Wide Attraction to a vast amount of Enthusiasts & the public!....

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