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W+P 2022 ?


Alan

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3 hours ago, 64EK26 said:

I booked to go in 2020, and recently asked if my booking had been deferred. W&P have declined to honour my booking stating that I didn't apply for a deferral in the 12 week window.

I'm no lawyer, and am not affected by this situation, but surely not applying for a deferral means you are still due a refund for the original cancellation? It might be interesting to ask them in writing and see what transpires. If several [or more] people can show a refusal then this may show a pattern which can be used to pursue the matter by whatever route then seems appropriate.

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Posted (edited)

Its a shame they don't communicate as they should. A forum may be a bit old school for them but they should release a statement, could be on here or social media.

When people are getting upset and state that publicly a reply or statement may soften the opinion. Just explain why there is a price rise or other decisions being made. A bit of explanation or maybe even some humility can win over many heart...

Edited by Enigma
typo
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I see from a post on the W+P site, they are due to attend some of the commemorative events in Normandy next month- might be worth putting forward the concerns of the mv community direct to them there. Unfortunately I’m not able to go😩

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2 minutes ago, Alan said:

I see from a post on the W+P site, they are due to attend some of the commemorative events in Normandy next month- might be worth putting forward the concerns of the mv community direct to them there. Unfortunately I’m not able to go😩

Do you think 'They' will listen?.....

I once expressed concerns from Exhibitors about being charged for the show. & stated quite truthfully, 'Without US, you wouldnt have a show'....

His reply was: 'Without ME, you wouldnt have a show'! I felt the arrogance to be repugnant!.....

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He will have a show, a vintage show. We will have shows, not his. A friend showed his camo caravan and I said he is ready for the W&P show, let's both not go. With Brexit I am trying to get the wife to move to Belgium or Germany to have a better life and better shows to go to. 

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One positive sign: I got a reply to my third email about whether their truck was available to move my tank and armoured cars  as I do not have a low loader of my own. Admittedly, reply was in essence, "your query has been passed to the appropriate person" but at least a reply so my attendance at W&P is still in the balance! I note no one has replied to my earlier posts here asking if any large and/or armoured vehicles had booked in yet. If I do attend, I hope I am not the only armour that does!

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1 hour ago, John Pearson said:

One positive sign: I got a reply to my third email about whether their truck was available to move my tank and armoured cars  as I do not have a low loader of my own. Admittedly, reply was in essence, "your query has been passed to the appropriate person" but at least a reply so my attendance at W&P is still in the balance! I note no one has replied to my earlier posts here asking if any large and/or armoured vehicles had booked in yet. If I do attend, I hope I am not the only armour that does!

Have you noticed that there is now no charge for tracked vehicles on the booking website? I am assuming it is because they are not getting many bookings?

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W&P are still adamant that there not doing refunds, I deferred my 2020 tickets but like so many others I wasn’t given a choice to defer or refund the 2021 tickets, unfortunately I can’t attend the dates set this year but at least I did get a reply from W&P !!  after 20 emails 🤬
 

Unfortunately there are no refunds as the show is going ahead this year.
Sorry about your situation but we are honouring your ticket as it was
deferred and not refunded in the 12 weeks we gave to apply in 2020.

Kind Regards
Jane Morgan
Accounts Department

FRL Media group
British Shooting Show
War and Peace revival
Magazine & Media network

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1 hour ago, sirhc said:

Have you noticed that there is now no charge for tracked vehicles on the booking website? I am assuming it is because they are not getting many bookings?

Good point Chris - I don't know of any who are going and must will be coming to Armour and Embarkation 2022

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I don't know why people cling onto a show that has gone past its sell by date. Its had its time, people went there because of the overseas traders great vehicles and reenactment displays and battles, now the organisers are arrogant  and taking the urine, putting up cost making money out of us at our expense. Most people in the re-enacting world who also own vehicles are looking for better venues where you are appreciated and there are some good ones like the Victory show, Capel, Overlord, Tilford etc, we are moving on, times are changing, the W and P show was great while it lasted but they killed it off. 

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7 hours ago, sirhc said:

Have you noticed that there is now no charge for tracked vehicles on the booking website? I am assuming it is because they are not getting many bookings?

I had not noticed but checked and yes "tracked tanks" (arent all tanks tracked???) do indeed get in free with 2 free crew camping. A definite move in the right direction but most tanks will have a crew of 3 to 5 and the benefits of more bookings òwill be undone if each extra crew member is charged the £350 camping charge. Not clear if low loaders will be charged and/or support cars but tanks and crews cannot get to the show without them

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, ferretfixer said:

Do you think 'They' will listen?.....

I once expressed concerns from Exhibitors about being charged for the show. & stated quite truthfully, 'Without US, you wouldnt have a show'....

His reply was: 'Without ME, you wouldnt have a show'! I felt the arrogance to be repugnant!.....

..a text book example of the reason to work together to achieve a good result for all parties.

Looking at the trade stalls area, there is about 504 stalls. Only about half of theses have been booked. 
Looking at the list of traders, I noticed some of the "usuals" were missing. A call to one of them confirmed the main reason for their absence - too costly. The stall price has also doubled. 

Where are all the positive reasons to attend the show?   Yes, there is music and entertainment, but where are the MV, displays and the arena shows?  As it looks now, evening cruise round the site won't be a long trip.   

 

Edited by Christian F.
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Saw W&P had a stall at Stoneleigh today, although the banner was W&P Revival. They were putting a lot of effort into drumming up support from both exhibitors and stall holders. Dont know if they had any success in their endeavours.

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21 minutes ago, John Pearson said:

Saw W&P had a stall at Stoneleigh today, although the banner was W&P Revival. They were putting a lot of effort into drumming up support from both exhibitors and stall holders. Dont know if they had any success in their endeavours.

I know a couple of  re enactors are going to confront them for taking the Michael, you have to pay them to display your valuable gear to make their show, lots of people looking at better venues who appreciate you just being there. Going to be an expensive disappointment getting into the gates to find half the show it used to be.

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I attended Beltring in 1999 and 2000. It was well worth the trip from the other side of the world.

Being that it is now not what it once was, what is the next biggest show and how does it compare

size wise to the Beltring of old?

eg. 25%, 50% etc?

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Just reminiscing over the W&P site's of old. I had an idea, if someone on here is actually attending this year. It would be nice to see some drone Footage over the site we all know from past attendances.  I for one, Always enjoyed the greenery all over & round the Beltring Land site. I am guessing that this year, there will be a LOT more greenery to see round the show site!....

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, dgrev said:

I attended Beltring in 1999 and 2000. It was well worth the trip from the other side of the world.

Being that it is now not what it once was, what is the next biggest show and how does it compare

size wise to the Beltring of old?

eg. 25%, 50% etc?

Our group has attended since '96 and its always been well worth the long trip driving 9 hours, sailing 18 hours and then driving 6 hours again..and that was just to get there 🙂 

The dates of the show fit nicely with summer holidays, the length of the show makes it worthwhile to dirve the distance. Many other shows are 2-3 days. Just that little bit too short even when counting set-up and take down. You just manage to settle in before you have to take it all down again.  
Surely Covid hasn't killed off enthusiasm, but feeling  "unapreciated" as some put it, does put you off a bit. Our group has always felt welcome and enjoyed the show and the prolonged stay. If this show goes to ground because of poor management skills and other reasons mentioned on this and other sites, I hope someone picks up the pieces and puts them back together agian in a new and better order.  .... 

   

Edited by Christian F.
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Some of the amaller shows eg: Capel are shorter for the public, but they are pretty good at letting you have extended days on site. I think we are there from the Thursday to the Monday this year, and I'm sure you could extend to Wednesday - Monday if you ask the organisers up front. Besides you would get a better spot!  

Not quite the same as w&p, but could be worth a recce?

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Covid and Brexit hasn't helped of course. With professional traders expected to make an itinerary of their stock, before and after the event I guess. Plus what happens about the goods the Europeans buy and take home? Are they likely to be taxed on them?  Dutch friends of mine have taken back jumble and ebay purchases  that I receive for them without any hassle, but is this normal or just luck of the draw. It's all bound to put foreigners off I'm sure.

 

Another issue that has been nagging at me, is that some people think that the money they pay to attend, either as a trader or exhibiter or walk in punter is pure profit in the pocket of the organizers. I wonder if most people know how many hundreds of thousands of pounds it costs to set up such a show.   

I'm thinking more people will not want to pay the extra cost for what might be only half a show....A sort of snowball effect.

 

Ron 

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In my first post on page 3 I asked if anyone could help justify the price increase to 2½ times the earlier price. Everyone can accept the fact, that facililties and entertainment costs, and are willing to pay, but not any price. 
I have not yet seen any justification or even an explaination for the vast increase in the prices.
When people can't see reason or find information, they tend to make up their own reasons. 

There will and have always been moaners......this time they seem to have somthing to moan about....or do they? 🙂

 

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I can't argue with any of that. I wanted to speak out regarding the "Without my truck there'd be no show" comments.

2-3 years ago, one guy didn't like the £10 increase then, because his huge truck cost £3 a mile or something in fuel. It was his choice to own a huge truck. 

Everything is getting so much dearer, What with Brexit, Covid and even worse "Putin" . I hate my gas/electricity bills. But unfortunately I have no choice with that.  

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1 hour ago, Ron said:

I can't argue with any of that. I wanted to speak out regarding the "Without my truck there'd be no show" comments.

2-3 years ago, one guy didn't like the £10 increase then, because his huge truck cost £3 a mile or something in fuel. It was his choice to own a huge truck. 

Everything is getting so much dearer, What with Brexit, Covid and even worse "Putin" . I hate my gas/electricity bills. But unfortunately I have no choice with that.  

Ron, I think you are missing the point with the "his choice" point. My vehicles probably do less mpg than any truck and they have (mostly) to be low loaded to any show and that is my choice and can obviously be expensive but, to me, it is the principle of whether I should also have to pay to enter my vehicles in a show intended to show a financial profit to the organiser? To me, the answer is no, no matter how large or small an amount. Why would I want to pay to restore, transport, fuel etc my vehicles and then also pay more so someone else can then charge the public to look at my vehicles? 

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12 minutes ago, John Pearson said:

Ron, I think you are missing the point with the "his choice" point. My vehicles probably do less mpg than any truck and they have (mostly) to be low loaded to any show and that is my choice and can obviously be expensive but, to me, it is the principle of whether I should also have to pay to enter my vehicles in a show intended to show a financial profit to the organiser? To me, the answer is no, no matter how large or small an amount. Why would I want to pay to restore, transport, fuel etc my vehicles and then also pay more so someone else can then charge the public to look at my vehicles? 

Hi John,

I agree with you. I think the organiser needs to realise there are two types of Exhibitors at this show, those with trade stands, who pay to be there, and (hopefully) get income from sales to cover their costs. The other group of Exhibitors is people like us, who have to pay a fee to display, but get bugger all in return. Having been going since the start when it was the IMPS annual military vehicle gathering, it seems to me that the event is heading in another direction and our MV's are no longer needed in big numbers. I know a lot of people from across the world who come to see what is/was the largest gathering of historic military vehicles on Earth and that draw is now being lost.

 

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A concept that also seems to have escaped the new "owner" of W&P is that in the past, attendees could have a home base so to speak at the show. This is how it was for us in 1999 and 2000. British friends had a caravan on site and us foreigners all gravitated to it for the 4 days we were at the show. It gave us somewhere to have a break, have a cup of tea, ditch purchases for safe keeping (instead of having to carry them around all day) and so on. One of our group brought a vehicle over from the continent, he could leave it at the caravan safely and did not have to load it and take it the 1/2 hour back and forth to his accommodation every day.

Then that sort of thing became frowned upon by the previous owner, restrictions on camping, restrictions (and fees) on civilian "vehicles" after lots of pressure from the vocal purists.

Our friends moved on to the Overlord Show and never returned to W&P because of the degraded enjoyment that W&P had now become. The fun police (purists) got their way, our friends voted with their feet. Seemingly a lot of others did too.

Richard, you would be aware of similar restrictions (that have now been lifted) that were imposed at our biggest MV event here in Oz. It certainly made the decision for me not to attend with a vehicle.

People often lose sight of the fact that what is popular sells and makes for success. Issuing edicts, milking people for perceived advantages etc works in the short term, but once sufficient people start a counter trend, then it can be a very long road to recover the success and revenue that the former popularity once brought. In the case of W&P they appear to think they can maintain their revenue by large price increases on a smaller pool of attendees.

In my experience, that is not a good idea unless you are after the well to do and "elite".

I am told, but have no way to verify, that the current ownership is re-enactment focused, where as the previous ownership was more vehicle focused. The way the show has gone, would appear to support this observation.

The former ownership spent large amounts of money providing free transport for the heavy end of our hobby. Yes, he had a huge outlay, but he knew that tanks etc attract enthusiasts and even the public. Whereas fields of jeeps and Land Rovers do not (for the record, I own both tanks and jeeps). The size and success of W&P back in those days speaks for itself.

 

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Been talking to a mate who went to the recent Stoneleigh  show, high prices on deacts £14,000 for a .30cal water cooled MG. Stall wise not that impressive with high prices on a lot of things, not like the usual shows they have, may be a reflection on what will be at the W&P show. I was also told by the grapevine that the re-enactors have to pay for the battle display out of their own pocket about £4,000. Gun hire, blanks and pyro. Hardly encouraging to book there. 

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