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Mk3iain

New Defender, not a bit military

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Having just looked over the new Defender on Land Rovers website and online reviews I'm disappointed. To me its another in the Range Rover line-up.

How can this ever be of use to the military except to pamper already over privileged officers.

I feel Land Rover just don't see the UK military as a market. Sad days, or am I missing something.

 

Iain

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It should be called the "Pretender," it's nothing like a defender and will definitely never replace it. At £40,000+ I think that      Land Rover have lost the plot.

 

 

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Dear All,

 

I will miss a proper Landrover and I write this as a retired "over privileged officer".  I first drove a military Landrover in about 1975 and have always had one of my own since about 1974.

John

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Hopefully Jim Ratcliffe can produce a decent alternative with Projekt Grenadier

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1 minute ago, attleej said:

Dear All,

 

I will miss a proper Landrover and I write this as a retired "over privileged officer".  I first drove a military Landrover in about 1975 and have always had one of my own since about 1974.

John

John

Please don't take offence, I have had bad experiences with mainly (but not quite all)  RAF officers who are taught to have contempt and distrust of the "other ranks".

Its the system not the individuals, but its way out of date and was a century ago.

Nuf said.

 

Sorry.

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The Defender was a utility vehicle which could be adapted for all sorts of roles, both civilian and military, it still had a following, but what they have got now is not much different to a Discovery from what I have seen. The design team have lost the plot.

On another note, that well known sports car name of MG, has just released a pick-up truck (or as the Aussies say, a Ute). What next, Jaguar making lorries? Worlds gone mad 😟

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"Derived from the D7 platform of the Discovery and Range Rover models" with a lot of guff about how stronger it is made.

Just call it the Discovery heavy duty or HD.

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3 hours ago, Richard Farrant said:

The Defender was a utility vehicle which could be adapted for all sorts of roles, both civilian and military, it still had a following, but what they have got now is not much different to a Discovery from what I have seen. The design team have lost the plot.

On another note, that well known sports car name of MG, has just released a pick-up truck (or as the Aussies say, a Ute). What next, Jaguar making lorries? Worlds gone mad 😟

Jaguar used to make lorries,  Guy was owned by Jaguar in the 1960s.

Why has Land Rover thrown away the military, agricultural and commercial market in favour of the yummy mummy?

Edited by johnwardle
Extra added

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1 hour ago, johnwardle said:

Jaguar used to make lorries,  Guy was owned by Jaguar in the 1960s.

 

Agreed, but don't think Jaguar had any input in design of Guy lorries, they just owned the company..

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In terms of TUL/TUM  XD  ,  the MOD had a excellent package , also the "Supplementary"  (Optionals) were all well designed for the basic vehicle upgrades etc. - also allowing selection for the Contract(s) build spec.   The XD and Tithonus  (extended life  LOL)  are in fleet decline due to demob.  Arguably the ;green' fleet replacement is already late - hard to imagine just what it is to be  ?

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6 hours ago, attleej said:

Dear All,

 

I will miss a proper Landrover and I write this as a retired "over privileged officer".  I first drove a military Landrover in about 1975 and have always had one of my own since about 1974.

John

You didn't have a driver  ?

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I had heard some years back that the MOD wanted to order another batch of Wolfs but LR declined. I don't think the Defender line was that profitable given that they were largely hand-built and production/sales number were comparatively low (IMO) compared to other manufacturers production figures. At the end of the day they are a commercial business, and if a product isn't profitable then produce it?  36,169 was the most Defenders produced in a year. As a comparison, 4 million Toyota Land Cruisers had been built up to 1990 https://blog.toyota.co.uk/history-of-the-toyota-land-cruiser-heavy-and-light-duty-models-2. Economy of scale innit?

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Edited by Grasshopper

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I have just looked on the Defender forum and someone on there has had their personal speck priced and it's come in at just under £90k, total madness. Mind you, it seems like either there are a lot of JLR employees on that particular thread or people working for companies that have an interest in JLR, as everything is so rosy and fantastic with the new pretender and we should all buy one.

 

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I took this off of that forum, where it comes from I do not know but it looks like there maybe problems ahead for a few companies.

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Land Rover Classic , have announced completion of restoration of  'prepro'  No.7       quite an achievment in total.      I suppose the time will arrive when  LRC will cease to function as the supply of raw material will dry up (they only use original (repaired) chassis frames it seems).    My  £  is that  LRC  will soon fold as it has served it's company political purpose (continuous manufacture/remanufacture)  at Solihull / West Midlands - birth of the new Defender will probably bring about the death. Possibly not as they have arranged for new re-manufacture of some components such as speedo heads & authentic pattern early steel wheel rims.  However I recall about 1995 that Land Rover was to take a interest in reintroduction of historical parts from franchise dealers (somewhere I have filed a flier a partsman handed me)  , mooted similar since - however  s.f.a.

Edited by ruxy
spelin

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Somewhere I have read that JLR is for sale and that either Peugeot or Renault are interested but it might just be rumour.

 

 

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1 hour ago, johann morris said:

Somewhere I have read that JLR is for sale and that either Peugeot or Renault are interested but it might just be rumour.

The French government has large stake holdings in both Renault and PSA  -  probably something to do with success, as well as keeping a large manufacturing base in France.

 

 

 

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I really do wonder at the skills of the JLR marketing team.  The way they can sell an overpriced and hugely unreliable range of vehicles totally unsuited to the role that 90% of them will fulfill is quite amazing.  The new Defender will I am sure fit right in there as a way of parting fools from their money.  Mind you,  unreliability and poor build quality has been a constant in Defenders from at least the 70s onwards, just that with the old Defenders, you could beat them into submission with a hammer and cold chisel.  I have had two of the nasty things, and loved them, but I did not kid myself.  But I do suspect, the days of the civvy market fancy 4WD behemoth are swiftly drawing to a close.

Edited by matchlesswdg3
Typos

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As expected the replacement is a Pretender , rather than a new defender , all Landrover products have become variations on a theme , I think it has become cannibalistic  , as it will only lose the defender market , and leech buyers from other models in the range . 85 ecu in a defender market product just shows the total lack of awareness .

 

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The JLR marketing team, more spin than a British politician.

How can you build up the expectation of a replacement Defender and end up with yet another in the Range Rover, Discovery range.

My expectation was for a vehicle with some of the attributes that championed by the Defender and its forerunners.

Possibly an updated version made in India. Is this going to happen, maybe they are having a joke. Maybe not.

Flexibility, I cant see a crew cab or soft top variant or any real variation on body style.  Soft roader only. No WMIK for this.

Ruggedness, OK its made with more welds to make it stronger, is that it!

I could go on but what's the point. Its not a Defender.

 

 

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I have also read on several websites and associated news that the Pretender will also be made a facility in Slovakia as well. 

Just another unnecessary SUV.

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I get the impression that previous posters aren't particularly keen on the new Defender. Did Series III owners feel the same about the 90 and 110 back in the 80s?

 

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JLR. Have dumped the working Farmer and anyone who needs a versatile utillity vehcle. Anyone the original vehicle was designed for.

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3 minutes ago, MatchFuzee said:

I get the impression that previous posters aren't particularly keen on the new Defender. Did Series III owners feel the same about the 90 and 110 back in the 80s?

 

I had a series 3 Safari at the time and loved the new 90 and 110. Still a fantastically versatile utility vehicle adaptable by anyone into anything (almost). Less rain worked its way into the cab in a hard top and otherwise it was an evolution on the original. I always fancied a 90 V8. One day maybe.

Your right, I'm not too keen on the new thing. Loved the Discovery 4 !

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