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griff66

prices of deac weapons at war and p show !

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People are moaning about current prices but may be I'm alone but I bought mine as an investment in the long term which in the end worked out quite well... Same goes for MVs

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People are moaning about current prices but may be I'm alone but I bought mine as an investment in the long term which in the end worked out quite well... Same goes for MVs

Ah, the dreaded "I" word rears it's ugly head. How to add lots of money on to the price. I've lost track of how many times that I've heard the "I" word used as a selling point on over priced items.

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Ah, the dreaded "I" word rears it's ugly head. How to add lots of money on to the price. I've lost track of how many times that I've heard the "I" word used as a selling point on over priced items.

Totally missed your point Pete??? I was offered a price by a Dealer & accepted it, he was happy, I was happy, end off...

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whats your definition of over priced ? or is it market value the number of people that told me when i first got my ferret about 4 years ago ,that they bought theirs for 2000 quid etc got quite boring ! my parents bought a house in 72 for 9 grand worth a bit more now! as lee states supply and demand, nothing to do with overpriced all markets over Time go up ,well ish!:D

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whats your definition of over priced ? or is it market value the number of people that told me when i first got my ferret about 4 years ago ,that they bought theirs for 2000 quid etc got quite boring ! my parents bought a house in 72 for 9 grand worth a bit more now! as lee states supply and demand, nothing to do with overpriced all markets over Time go up ,well ish!:D

Well put, when I sold my Ferret I got almost double what I paid for it. It is now worth even more if it went on the market today.

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I wasn't having a dig at anyone. What I was trying to say was, the use of the word "investment" is used far too often to bung up the price of something. Yes, if the market will stand the inflated prices, fair play. But I think that things have gone way over the top in the last few years as far as anything military goes. Thus putting stuff out of the reach of your average bod. (I'll be putting my grotty Fiesta in to cold storage for the next 30 years, so that I can retire a wealthy man, lol.)

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Recently, I received from a licensed importer an overview of prices incl for some of the guns mentioned here (fully working specimens, not tampered with). I must say I am really amazed at the market prices of the deacts mentioned here (and found "out there" in general). I guess it is also due to the popularity of reenacting these prices have gone up in a short period of time?

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The major problem out there is that dealers (perhaps maybe not knowingly), are selling crap at premium prices. Not only that but some deactivations are absolute crap too. The Brens being sold by one large dealer have the worst deactivation job I've ever seen, unnecessary cuts and grinding.

 

Most of the British GPMGs being sold out there are actually ex Indian guns and not British L7s, they've been marked to cover their origins. Some of the .50 cal M2s for sale have had their original markings removed and marked as Interarms manufacture and are crap, Lee Enfields made from lots of parts, not even the same models. Made up guns sold as experimental or rare models, and there are people out there who fall for it!!

 

In my opinion, the best items on the market at the moment are coming from WWA, Rytons, Mike Priest and Saracen Exports.

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Recently, I received from a licensed importer an overview of prices incl for some of the guns mentioned here (fully working specimens, not tampered with). I must say I am really amazed at the market prices of the deacts mentioned here (and found "out there" in general). I guess it is also due to the popularity of reenacting these prices have gone up in a short period of time?

 

Shooters are normally cheaper as only certain people can own them. De- Ac's anyone can own, so they are worth more. Also same as with a lot of MV's, they 'aint making them any more! My Dodges have virtually doubled thier market prices since I got them. Watch prices jump next year with the intrest in 70th D- Day and 100th Great War.

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The major problem out there is that dealers (perhaps maybe not knowingly), are selling crap at premium prices. Not only that but some deactivations are absolute crap too. The Brens being sold by one large dealer have the worst deactivation job I've ever seen, unnecessary cuts and grinding.

 

Most of the British GPMGs being sold out there are actually ex Indian guns and not British L7s, they've been marked to cover their origins. Some of the .50 cal M2s for sale have had their original markings removed and marked as Interarms manufacture and are crap, Lee Enfields made from lots of parts, not even the same models. Made up guns sold as experimental or rare models, and there are people out there who fall for it!!

 

In my opinion, the best items on the market at the moment are coming from WWA, Rytons, Mike Priest and Saracen Exports.

I'd add DWSUK to the trusted list. I've never had any problems with them.

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found d and b mil good when i bought my L2a3 off them couple of years ago, 3 mags and sling 270 quid think bit more than that now as with all thing buyer must do their homework!

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Here's how the prices are climbing. I bought my SLR on 5/11/2012 for £995. At Muckleburgh this year, a dealer offered me £1500 on the spot (Probably as he almost gave birth, when I showed him that it also cycles rounds, lol.). Add the dealers profit margin on, and a lowly SLR has doubled in price in less than a year.

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See my posting on the forum about Brens a few years ago, I felt they were inching up in price but theyve jumped recently.

 

For me deacs are getting out of reach now which is a great shame, I really wanted a Browning Hi power but £650 is just too much to tie up.

 

Where will it all end? A limited few with the funds to invest? No idea.

 

Carleton

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See my posting on the forum about Brens a few years ago, I felt they were inching up in price but theyve jumped recently.

 

For me deacs are getting out of reach now which is a great shame, I really wanted a Browning Hi power but £650 is just too much to tie up.

 

Where will it all end? A limited few with the funds to invest? No idea.

 

Carleton

And there you go. My car cost me £590 with 11 months T&T on it, and I suspect that a lot of people would rather have a car than a deac'.

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Shooters are normally cheaper as only certain people can own them. De- Ac's anyone can own, so they are worth more. Also same as with a lot of MV's, they 'aint making them any more! My Dodges have virtually doubled thier market prices since I got them. Watch prices jump next year with the intrest in 70th D- Day and 100th Great War.

 

Another reason that live guns are often cheaper than de-acs is that it costs the dealer money to have a weapon de-activated, and obviously this adds to the price.

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We have been chatting about vehicle and deact price inflation since I joined in 2008, it hasn't dropped back since then, always upwards. I suggest we look at other collector interests that were affordable in the past to see how it's all going, just speak to the older guys into vintage sports cars and steam vehicles, in the 60/70s is was a run of the mill hobby that was affordable. Not anymore, you haven't a lot of disposable cash, you can't enter the hobby!

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We have been chatting about vehicle and deact price inflation since I joined in 2008, it hasn't dropped back since then, always upwards. I suggest we look at other collector interests that were affordable in the past to see how it's all going, just speak to the older guys into vintage sports cars and steam vehicles, in the 60/70s is was a run of the mill hobby that was affordable. Not anymore, you haven't a lot of disposable cash, you can't enter the hobby!

We had the same thing with Brit' Bikes. In the early 80's you couldn't give them away just to get rid of them. By 1985, they had become an "Investment" by the "I take it out once a year for it's ticket." brigade. I got a good deal on a mint A10 Flash (In Road Rocket red trim.). I used to ride her to work every day, fully loaded with my building tools, come rain, snow, 1987 hurricane, etc. I put over 100k Miles on her, and sold her for twice what I'd paid (Divorce, and I wanted a long legged Chopper (Which is still sitting in my garage.) ).

Edited by Pete

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Because a British deac isn't acceptable in Italy, I've always looked upon the rows of guns at war & peace with a sort of detached awe - anyone remember stens at £70 a pop and boxed Brens at £125 complete with magazines? - it wasn't that long ago.

Whilst it's true that alot of things have ballooned in price over the last few years, quite a bit of it has to do with one (or two) constants:

1) Rarity / desirability (whether real or perceived)

2) Overseas interest ramping up the values

This is why so much British postwar stuff (both military and civilian) is worth very little - nobody outside of the UK wants a Wolseley 6/90 (for example), so notwithstanding the fact that they're probably rarer than a Ferrari 250 swb they are worth next to nothing.

So getting back to my premise.

1)There were a hell of alot of Brens at w&p, tons of the things in actual fact, so no one out there is going to convince me that they are rare.

2) No one outside of the uk can actually buy the things.

I may be mistaken, but for the three days I was at the show (mostly spent in the trade stands) I didn't see anybody dragging about a freshly bought BMG which means that the stuff was probably all carted back home at the end of the show which is an indication that it was probably (and I'm being kind), vastly overpriced. I can understand things being expensive when they are really rare (how many PIAT's did you see at w&p? yes, me neither), but this is not the case with alot of deacs. Markets tend to self regulate themselves and values usually settle when they become unsustainable (remember the prices of Jag Mk 2's back in the eighties? Factor in inflation and they are now probably worth about 30% of what they were back then - V12 E types are another one that springs to mind ).

Personally, I only buy things that I really like and will gladly pay what I consider to be slightly over the odds for them without regrets. However, when I think that I'm having the mickey taken out of me I walk away, similarily with no regrets.

Edited by Stefano

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That about sums it up Stefano, well said!

(Oh, I forgot to say about how the prices of Proper Biker jackets went into overdrive in the mid to late 80's in my last post. With the Yuppie Harley rider buyers wanting to be what they wern't, I got wads of money waved at me in the "City" boozers by those types. Probably the only time that money types didn't get one over on me. "I'll give you a grand for your jacket mate. Sorry 'erbert, this jacket is infected with Real Biker Germs, you really don't want it. Oh go on 1200!. Nah mate, you couldn't look after it, and it wouldn't come to you when you whistled. 1500! You do realise that my jacket has leprosy for a reason? Sorry mate? It hates Tupperware bikers and will grab you by the throat if you keep talking about it. Silence! :-D ")

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Well put Stefano, I'm the same I always buy things because I like them NOT for investment, and like you don't mind paying a fair price but as with all hobbies there are a FEW people in the militaria scene who are not necessarily enthusiasts but opportunists who move from hobby to hobby earning a living as demand increases. I have lot's of military items and three MV's I love them for what they are and certainly do not see them as a get rich quick scheme, if they rise in value fine if they lose I'm a realist, every ones hobby costs something and once you factor in the fun aspect of owning and enjoying a piece of history it's totally worth it. We are all in one big family and whatever our particular " green " interest the MV scene will continue to grow, prices rise in everything but hopefully we are all sensible enough to shun the sky high prices of some traders and support the decent honest ones who are out there. :)

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Well put Stefano, I'm the same I always buy things because I like them NOT for investment, and like you don't mind paying a fair price but as with all hobbies there are a FEW people in the militaria scene who are not necessarily enthusiasts but opportunists who move from hobby to hobby earning a living as demand increases. I have lot's of military items and three MV's I love them for what they are and certainly do not see them as a get rich quick scheme, if they rise in value fine if they lose I'm a realist, every ones hobby costs something and once you factor in the fun aspect of owning and enjoying a piece of history it's totally worth it. We are all in one big family and whatever our particular " green " interest the MV scene will continue to grow, prices rise in everything but hopefully we are all sensible enough to shun the sky high prices of some traders and support the decent honest ones who are out there. :)

Again, well said!

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1013764_684543194895110_1790544043_n.jpgOn a another note (Probably worthy of a new thread, Admins.), how do you all display your deac's at shows? (Pic' is of My Kim in her

element.)

Edited by Pete

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A friend of mine bought one of the D&B MkV Stens for £495. Sadly I don't have that kind of budget these days, so I settled for an incomplete / restoration project WWII Webley MkIV from World Wide Arms for £100. (All leads for Webley MkIV parts gratefully received)

 

I take a 'the only objective measure of whether a deact is overpriced is whether or not it sells' approach to these things. No doubt some dealers price things optimistically, but ultimately it comes down to supply and demand.

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Any chance of some photos of the Mk5 STEN? Last one I saw from the same dealer was a real piece of work, it didn't have the back end of the bolt fitted, it just had the cocking handle crudely welded in place.

 

What Webley parts do you need?

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