Jessie The Jeep Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Nice Steve! Do you know what rounds hit those Shermans? Big fast ones! The holes were about 75mm diameter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Nice Steve! Do you know what rounds hit those Shermans? Jack, They were on landing ships or craft, that were sunk off the coast. A fascinating museum, a lot of small exhibits inside as well, like documents and maps found in the tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie The Jeep Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Utah Beach. That's all folks! Steve Edited September 5, 2020 by Jessie The Jeep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Jack, They were on landing ships or craft, that were sunk off the coast. A fascinating museum, a lot of small exhibits inside as well, like documents and maps found in the tanks. Thanks Richard and went to that museum a couple of years ago but out of season:argh: I was meaning what punched those holes in the Shermans :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) The famous Grizzlyfly at Beltring (photo not taken by me). Edited February 1, 2009 by Enigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 What are the defining features of a Grizzly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 What are the defining features of a Grizzly? Grizzly is a Canadian built M4A1 so it has a cast hull and is usually on the Canadian Dry Pin track with the 17 tooth sprocket. However, some Grizzlies have been put onto standard US track, the Grizzlyfly being an example. The other giveaway is they are all fitted with a three piece front yet have a full width M34A1 mantlet. Even this isn't a guarantee as the front can be changed to a single piece. The Belgium army museums M4A1(76) has a three piece front which is 'wrong' but shows that with shermans, almost anything is possible. Grizzly hulls also have a general steel foundry symbol on the glacis plate, a G in a shield but contrary to what some have written, this does not stand for Grizzly and indeed appears on other tanks and even M26 pershing turrets. The only way to be sure is to inspect the vehicle as the internal and pioneer tool stowage is different on a Grizzly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) I am sure there are many more features but the most obvious one is the special track which looks 'similar' to that on Pz3 and Pz4 tanks. I read that the Canadian powers that be thought that their design gave more traction... which seems to hold water, in my eyes. Apart from that the Grizzly is a copy of the mid production US M4A1 (Sherman 2). Main visual points: Looks like a mid production M4A1 i.e. cast hull, small hatches. Unique track - three letter acronym something like CDP or CPD. 75mm Gun version only with wide mantel. Three piece transmission housing. Low bustle turret i.e. the back end with the radio is not level with the top of the turret - which also means only one turret hatch without the coupla. Wirlwind R975 Radial engine. Others add info here......:idea: Adrian - you just beat me, I hadn't done a refresh before I pressed save :-) Read your response now - 'a G in a shield', I also spotted this foundry mark on the bogies of some British Rail stock when I was travelling to Uni via Birmingham New St in the late 90's. Edited February 2, 2009 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Thanks lads, you really know your stuff! I'll try and identify all the Shermans I've posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Thanks lads, you really know your stuff! I'll try and identify all the Shermans I've posted. It's harder than it at first seems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 A good point which Adrian touched on... Although a specific mark of Sherman (or any piece of equipment for that matter) may have left the US with xyz installed doesn't mean that parts from other Sherman variants were not fitted later (if they were interchangeable), this stands for bogies, road wheels, drive sprockets, transmission housings, engines (you know to what extent I mean) and tracks! When they suffered a failure in the field anything that was available was installed. All we can do is follow photographic evidence, following official requirement specs etc can be misleading. That's why the American phrase that you see in adverts doesn't bother me '...original....all matching numbers....':-\ My copy of Mark Haywards 'Firefly' book is on its way, should be intresting reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maurice Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I am not sure if all Grizzly`s had a little hatch in front of the co driver , but I have seen some with this little hatch . it is also installed in the RAM , it was meant for operating the devise called "snake" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 What are the defining features of a Grizzly? Here you go Joris A photo speaks a 1000 words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Deleted - attempt to post pics failed miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Alastair, you are of course correct but there was some effort in keeping the main units as they should be at least during the war. Since then it has been anything goes. For example, every M4A4 was built with a 3 piece front and I have never seen a wartime picture of one with a single piece. Of course, the lack of a 3 piece might suggest it was not an M4A4 and throw you of the scent but.... Another favourite point of ID for Chrysler built Shermans is the small plate welded to the rear of the splash ring around the turret. It is a Chrysler only fitment but was not fitted to early tanks. It's presence on a tank is proof it is Chrysler built but it's absence does not prove it's not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 As much as I like riding/driving a fully restored Sherman, I am fascinated by artefacts like the one below. Remember this Sherman was put out of action and remained in the very same spot since November 1943! I cannot think of a better memorial to the people who paid dearly during the Battle of Tarawa. . . . Source: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:Battle_Tarawa_Tank.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just reading what I wrote it looks like I was disagreeing with Adrian over transmission housings, I wasn't at all! I wanted to point out that parts get changed and the vehicles wouldn't necessarily be running in the same condition that they arrived in. This is particularly apparent with tracks and road wheels, there are numerous photos detailing Shermans with a hotchpotch of different road wheel styles. There are no facts in industry, just varying hues of grey:-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I thought part of the rational of Sherman was that bits were interchangable? If it works in war you use it, if you can fix it you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Just reading what I wrote it looks like I was disagreeing with Adrian over transmission housings, I wasn't at all! I wanted to point out that parts get changed and the vehicles wouldn't necessarily be running in the same condition that they arrived in. This is particularly apparent with tracks and road wheels, there are numerous photos detailing Shermans with a hotchpotch of different road wheel styles. There are no facts in industry, just varying hues of grey:-( I understood perfectly the point you were making Alastair and you were right! Things like wheels and tracks are service items and anything could be and was fitted. The point I was making was that larger assemblies like front ends seemed to have stayed with the vehicle. There is a good reason for this as the hull number is usually stamped on the towing eyes and allthough any front would fit any hull, there is quite a bit of difference between types and this has an effect on drivers controls too. Of course if it meant the difference between getting a vehicle back in action or it sitting for the want of a part then anything goes but things like turrets and transmission assemblies are jobs for workshops rather than crew or LAD. As to total interchangeability, that seems to have been an American thing as much as Sherman! Production line manufacture as opposed to British hand finished..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) As to total interchangeability, that seems to have been an American thing as much as Sherman! Production line manufacture as opposed to British hand finished..... C´mon guys, this is a gallery thread, i.e. piccies! Not an anorak discussion about the number of bolts needed to fit a final drive housing to a Sherman hull. . . . H. Edited February 2, 2009 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Strictly speaking the final drive housing bolts onto the transmission housing not the hull. It uses 22 per side.....:help: Anyway, I will upload all my range pics tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Strictly speaking the final drive housing bolts onto the transmission housing not the hull. It uses 22 per side.....:help: Gotcha. I knew you could not resist . . . - Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Strictly speaking the final drive housing bolts onto the transmission housing not the hull. It uses 22 per side.....:help: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) Anyway, I will upload all my range pics tomorrow! Right! As a prelude, see my G503 album Surviving Shermans - UK: Pirbright. Some of those pics might actually be yours. Edited February 2, 2009 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radek Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 This one is in Military museum Lesany near Praque in Czech Rep. Radek http://www.vhu.cz/cs/stranka/vojenske-technicke-muzeum/fotogalerie-lesanysherman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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