ferretfixer Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/7/2023 at 3:05 PM, Matt W said: You've found the missing evidence! It's all true then, I'm going to get my spade!!!! The Item in the photo is a fake! Everyone knows a 'Digger'. Is an Australian Serviceman!..........😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 7:50 AM, ferretfixer said: The Item in the photo is a fake! Everyone knows a 'Digger'. Is an Australian Serviceman!..........😁 Not that I have had enough time to read through the last batch of replies and remarks in depth but it would appear that the gist suggests some are a little upset or could it be suffering from a touch of sour grapes, not that it surprises me ,however the level of a few of the remarks suggest the vendor thinks we all dress in sack cloth , one remark ( don't annoy your MP ) well who is my MP ? What's more a MP is elected to represent the interest and well being of their constituents and answerable to those they represent this is the twenty first century not the seventeenth ..as a point of interest Milton high Street was at the time the A10 ,the A10 as it is now goes through the area of the pic of the prison of war and tank park and runs parallel with Milton high Street so. In the day everything on the A10 went through Milton village including tanks . Yes I expected to get slagged of for as it was put lack of evidence but even when I field an original mod picture of the subject matter "howls of derision " . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 2 hours ago, andy brown said: Milton high Street was at the time the A10 ,the A10 as it is now goes through the area of the pic of the prison of war and tank park and runs parallel with Milton high Street so. In the day everything on the A10 went through Milton village including tanks . Yes I expected to get slagged of for as it was put lack of evidence but even when I field an original mod picture of the subject matter "howls of derision " . Andy, There were no howls of derision about the photo. No one disputes that the photo is of Milton, that it was probably taken just after the war, that there are tanks in the storage area and that the main road then went through the village itself. I am sure tanks did use the road - they used most roads in the country in those days so don't be silly - these are not the things we are derisive about. We aren't daft either. We accept evidence, we accept logic and we accept reasoned argument. Your case offers none of this. You never answer a direct question directly, you present no evidence of anything remotely relating to your story - the presence of a storage depot at Milton is proof of nothing other than the existence of a storage depot in Milton which no one disputes. Whether your father was billeted there I have no idea but, seeing as he was supposed to have retired from the army when all this happened, I have no idea why he should have been. And we accept logic. There is no logic whatsoever to your story. Why would anyone wish to bury large quantities of tanks under a working airfield when they had a scrap value and the Ministry of Supply had plenty of easier places to bury them had they wanted to do so? Why remove the data plates from vehicles which were being buried and which were not subject to lend-lease or anything else - you said they were British-built Churchills? Why do it in secret? Why get a civilian ex-NCO to do it when the Army was full of people with little to do and disposal of wartime munitions was part and parcel of Service life at the time? There is no sense in any of it - it is pure, unadulterated rubbish. You have some sort of bee in your bonnet about Lord Hammond and another about establishment conspiracies. Furthermore, you have consistently been rude to us. You have told us to 'be patient' while you released information slowly, bit by bit. You took ages before you told us it was Waterbeach - why? Why could you not have been frank with us from the beginning? You made offensive remarks about how we valued sprocket bolts when you knew where hundreds of intact tanks were. And so it goes on. Andy, if you have some real evidence, can offer a logical story or reasoned argument, can stop being patronising and can manage to answer direct questions then you might, just might, salvage something from this. If not - forget it. For my part, I'm going back into purdah - I have nothing more to add to this thread. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt W Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Not upset, no sour grapes. Can we see the photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 21 hours ago, 10FM68 said: Andy, There were no howls of derision about the photo. No one disputes that the photo is of Milton, that it was probably taken just after the war, that there are tanks in the storage area and that the main road then went through the village itself. I am sure tanks did use the road - they used most roads in the country in those days so don't be silly - these are not the things we are derisive about. We aren't daft either. We accept evidence, we accept logic and we accept reasoned argument. Your case offers none of this. You never answer a direct question directly, you present no evidence of anything remotely relating to your story - the presence of a storage depot at Milton is proof of nothing other than the existence of a storage depot in Milton which no one disputes. Whether your father was billeted there I have no idea but, seeing as he was supposed to have retired from the army when all this happened, I have no idea why he should have been. And we accept logic. There is no logic whatsoever to your story. Why would anyone wish to bury large quantities of tanks under a working airfield when they had a scrap value and the Ministry of Supply had plenty of easier places to bury them had they wanted to do so? Why remove the data plates from vehicles which were being buried and which were not subject to lend-lease or anything else - you said they were British-built Churchills? Why do it in secret? Why get a civilian ex-NCO to do it when the Army was full of people with little to do and disposal of wartime munitions was part and parcel of Service life at the time? There is no sense in any of it - it is pure, unadulterated rubbish. You have some sort of bee in your bonnet about Lord Hammond and another about establishment conspiracies. Furthermore, you have consistently been rude to us. You have told us to 'be patient' while you released information slowly, bit by bit. You took ages before you told us it was Waterbeach - why? Why could you not have been frank with us from the beginning? You made offensive remarks about how we valued sprocket bolts when you knew where hundreds of intact tanks were. And so it goes on. Andy, if you have some real evidence, can offer a logical story or reasoned argument, can stop being patronising and can manage to answer direct questions then you might, just might, salvage something from this. If not - forget it. For my part, I'm going back into purdah - I have nothing more to add to this thread. Hi thanks for the input ,,it was never my intention to give away the whole story.as I new or suspected that there might be some one who held or knew of some thing regards waterbeach tanks ,,yes I was looking for info , my father was on reserve when war broke out and had twenty one days to go before release but they refused to let him go in 1946 he was on reserve again until 1954 between 46 and 54 he worked as a civilian in the 10command reme wks Mill Hill nw7. ..in forty eight he became vehicle inspector traveling round London inspecting vehicles static and road Tests at barracks ,reme wks, vehicle stockpiles ,docks, and ministry vehicles , as he said he was neither on the radar or off the radar ,having had what he saw as a raw deal ten years before he used his time and expertise to level the score ,taking on a wide range of mod or ministry cover ups so long as there was an inducement to do so .. hence the meetings at our house at the time and eventually waterbeach and brigadier Slim. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 59 minutes ago, andy brown said: Hi thanks for the input ,,it was never my intention to give away the whole story.as I new or suspected that there might be some one who held or knew of some thing regards waterbeach tanks ,,yes I was looking for info , my father was on reserve when war broke out and had twenty one days to go before release but they refused to let him go in 1946 he was on reserve again until 1954 between 46 and 54 he worked as a civilian in the 10command reme wks Mill Hill nw7. ..in forty eight he became vehicle inspector traveling round London inspecting vehicles static and road Tests at barracks ,reme wks, vehicle stockpiles ,docks, and ministry vehicles , as he said he was neither on the radar or off the radar ,having had what he saw as a raw deal ten years before he used his time and expertise to level the score ,taking on a wide range of mod or ministry cover ups so long as there was an inducement to do so .. hence the meetings at our house at the time and eventually waterbeach and brigadier Slim. He was bilited.in Milton along with the rest of the team along with Five amourers .the donkey work was carried out by what he referred to as pioneer corp but they were not from the UK ....,as for churchilIs i don't recall saying they were all Churchill's his words were the majority.are.....as for why bury them , it appears from dowith lend lease repayments that were agreed to with the us who later renaded on theagreeement due in part that the government here couldn't agree to devalue the pound down to a level the us demanded so they demanded that we pay up on the debt now or we would have to stop scrapping ,selling or using anything we owed against the debt ,to pay would break the country the only thing they left untouched was shipping that had been on lend lease ,scrapping was out of the question as this was income ,income that the U.S wanted ,so the UK found out the party was over we could no longer trade with the world Australia New Zealand ,south Africa , Canada had a new outlet the top dogs were the US we were left importing beef from Argentina and whale meet from Norway and chile.and rationing just ground on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Whilst I understand how the US government might insist that equipment supplied under lend-lease should be either returned, paid for or destroyed when no longer required, how could this explain the (highly secret) burial of hundreds of Churchill tanks, which were not supplied by the US but were entirely manufactured in the UK? Why go to the trouble of chiselling off all of the data plates just to send them to a scrap yard anyway? Is there any evidence to connect the data plates found in the scrapyard with the allegedly buried tanks? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, mtskull said: Whilst I understand how the US government might insist that equipment supplied under lend-lease should be either returned, paid for or destroyed when no longer required, how could this explain the (highly secret) burial of hundreds of Churchill tanks, which were not supplied by the US but were entirely manufactured in the UK? Why go to the trouble of chiselling off all of the data plates just to send them to a scrap yard anyway? Is there any evidence to connect the data plates found in the scrapyard with the allegedly buried tanks? Hi , you have asked the questions that I took with me to the national archives some twelve years ago , I must have touched a nerve because they withdrew the records I had ask for and became insistant that two files listed did not exist ,in their words ( these can only be red under ministerial supervision ) my reply ( I will go for that then ,) (that request would take at least two years to go through the appropriate channels and even then you could be refused access ) came their reply ..just to put the nail in the coffin three months latter on a nother visit they called me to the reception desk and said I could read said files ....went to third floor and was given a folder with the ident ,on it only to find it was empty.......what was it someone didn't want me to know ? Ps not all Churchill's were manufactured in the UK.and I found they at the time Canada was rather laid back re pay back times on l.l but ifound that the US started to put the squeeze on Canadian gov; to push UK to pay for what they owed ,this late forty seven ..one thing to bear in mind the US saw the labour gov; as a bunch of commis with there national health scheme and trade union council ,US had waited years for the opportunity to nail the UK to the floor and here it was on a plate...... To be continued...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 All Churchills were made in the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul connor Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Not in this fable, nothings off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 And we are off again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt W Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 National Archive file reference number? All Churchills were made in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Does AB mean the Valentine ? In any case - his present research is getting very lax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 This thread reminds me of the rambling shaggy dog story told by Ronnie Corbett at the end of episodes of the Two Ronnies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Aye, at least Ronnie's stories had an end to them/punchline............. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 So anyhow. Does anyone know what the end result was. For the fabled Nazi Gold train, buried in a tunnel abroad?....😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashcollection Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 3 hours ago, ferretfixer said: So anyhow. Does anyone know what the end result was. For the fabled Nazi Gold train, buried in a tunnel abroad?....😎 It's in a railway siding on Atlantis, built over a pit with 200 Canadian built Churchills in it, easy to find just turn left when you get to the crated Malaysian Spitfires and my Dads Crated Jeeps, and B17 Engines, don't trip over the piles of Amber room panels though they are delicate. Sorry Andy, but that statement makes as much sense as all the rest of this post. You still think everyone is against you, but everyone in this forum and the developers would be over the moon if these tanks where real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon king Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) This book makes for interesting reading in the context of this thread Edited February 14, 2023 by simon king Repetition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 On 2/14/2023 at 1:56 PM, simon king said: This book makes for interesting reading in the context of this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Just in case what I had previously mentioned regarding the strangle hold the U.S had post war on the UK's financial situation the above shows the result ,not that the UK paid back the lend lease money immediately as the US relented at the time so long as they could pick from universities and research establishment in the UK anything that they thought they should have , the lease money was made in yearly amounts the last paid by ed balls in or around the year 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Another pic of tanks at the none existent Milton Cambs not good I agree but a couple of frames on from the last pic I posted waterbeach is situated two miles distant in this pic and to the right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul connor Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Wow, that's some extensive research right there. An aerial photograph with no contextual source, and a graph from 'miketodd.net' suggesting historical exchange rates; with no sources and completely subjectively bias text. Please Andy, learn to understand bias and agenda. Your subjective views are not quantifiable, websites are also not valid as references within any academic or amateur research. You're using dubious sources to arrange a very inconsistent and unconvincing argument to project your own personal narrative and agenda within this thread. It's probably best this thread is locked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john1950 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 That is a bit of a killjoy attitude, When sitting around a campfire are all things discussed fact and not given to some artistic license and fantasy. Especially when some falling down water is added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy brown Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, paul connor said: Wow, that's some extensive research right there. An aerial photograph with no contextual source, and a graph from 'miketodd.net' suggesting historical exchange rates; with no sources and completely subjectively bias text. Please Andy, learn to understand bias and agenda. Your subjective views are not quantifiable, websites are also not valid as references within any academic or amateur research. You're using dubious sources to arrange a very inconsistent and unconvincing argument to project your own personal narrative and agenda within this thread. It's probably best this thread is locked. Re Canadian Churchill's ......it really didn't matter what I fielded did it ..the response was to be the same ,so I added a little market research ,see how many responded to this ...I personally wouldn't have bothered to respond ,when I saw that there was a response I realized after all my years (what an uphill battle the apostles must have faced for the New testament to be compiled .......no never happened ,nail em on upside down ,so I could see how "life of Brian " came to be.... I never professed to be an academic. Nor I suspect did many of the reader ship but they do have enough wit to make up there own minds based on there own experience without being told otherwise.......... Ok answer needed ..where about on the hull of a Churchill is the model and chassis no; brass plate ,is it bolted through with nuts on reverse side or drilled and tapped to take a bolt , Did all.marks of Churchill's have the plates in the same place and how hard were they to get to.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt W Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Well I've certainly made my own mind up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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