Somebody out there knows all about this !!

[10FM68]

36 minutes ago, andy brown said:

A few excerpts from..

August 1948 cabinet preparations for defence

Memorandum by the prime minister

The defence of the United kingdom

Defence of essential communications

Defence of middle east

Bases for u.s strategic air force in UK and middle east stocking of Airfields in EAST ANGLIA 

Should war break out ,or its threat become imminent at any time in the next six to nine months ,fairly extensive plans have already been prepared ,and are being perfected every week - for a crash mobilisation..

Specific attention to the recall of war time A/A crews where ever possible 

Actions in response to the meetings of foreign ministers in Moscow promote the need to safeguard what we have and under take to supply what will be needed

Anti aircraft ammunition 

The rate of production should be built up to the following level

5.25he.       10.000 per month

3.7mark 1v he 5000per month

3.7mark111 he. 30,000 per month 

Small arms ammunition should be raised from 200 million rounds to 400 million

Bomber airfields ....

Four additional airfields should be prepared in the UK for the use of U/S heavy bombers 

Fighter aircraft 

Additional orders placed for jet fighters venoms and or meteors ,..piston engine fighters held in sock to be bought to a state of readyness and supply's of spares will be required for same...

The lists go on covering everything from steel production shipping refurs ,radar up grades , labour distribution ,.construction materials ,production of respirators ,vehicle produçtion , etc,ect 

So this was pie in the sky ....according to the g and t Oxford brigade ....

 

None of this supports your theory that the tanks were buried.  Why remove data plates and bury tanks when the government is concerned about a Soviet invasion?  And, again, insults - who are the G&T Oxford brigade?  How about explaining how you went from 326 tanks to 1400?  Where's the picture of you and a digger on this thread?  Where is the second pit?  What is your explanation for choosing a live air station for secret burial when there were masses of empty government-owned bits of land all over the place?  Why the inconsistencies regarding the tanks: some German ones apparently in your early post, some Bren carriers and Oxfords, loads of spares, some rubbish about lend-lease or having to pay the Canadians.  Offer us some answers to those questions.  But, I'm afraid, Paul Connor has hit the nail on the head: he's given scientific proof that there are no tanks buried at Waterbeach - proof, not opinion, assumption or speculation which is all you have been able to counter with.  We aren't ganging up on you, we aren't secretly working to undermine you on behalf of Lord Hammond, it is just that we think you have deliberately toyed with us which, as I have told you before, I find rude and insulting and nothing you have said makes any coherent sense - on any level: the tanks aren't there and you could come up with no reason why they should be.  Sadly, I think your dad was pulling your leg!

[10FM68]

3 hours ago, ruxy said:

So  -  05/02/2023 after 6+ years , the Andy Brown story of hundreds of burried tanks is deemed  - codswollop , the work of a creative mind.  Then it is suggested that one looks at AB's other post as originator :-

History repeating itself.a waste of 60 years  (posted 15/82022).

AB  - gets the last word and gets no bite in response , it's a case of down but not out on the case of the black ball.

Andys - last typing ,   I was unaware that they produced a missile in the shape of a sphere.

---------

So - the day Andy was a tractor mechanic (civvy) on a RAF field, like most technicals - he would be nosey & store in memory  ?      If the story is not contrived - then w.t.f.  did Andy observe  ?

Could it have been the "Radioactive Bomb"  ?  Probably the greatest secret of WW2 on  ?   Not the two route to a nuclear explosion. 

At close down of Tube Alloys and hand over £$ free to the USA , the greatest secret was the Cyclotron.  There was the idea of an Americal scientist (as if a British scientist had not considered,  as if Blunt & team had not passed it on to Russia (until Op. Barbarossa Russia shared all secrets with Germany).   Both Chadwick and Oliphant were ordered to keep their mouths shut.   The idea was a dirty bomb,  to use the radioactivety of the cyclotron - the nuclear accelerator for producing a stream of electrically charged atoms or nuclei travelling at a very high speed - in a bomb.  This could destroy the human population of a large city.  Apparently Sir Mark Oliphant  - made no mention until January 1994, posibly by then he had lost a few marbles ?  Oliphant merely said  - that the radioactive bomb was a contentious issue in the immediate post-war years  !

Tony, please don't go down this rabbit hole... you are in danger of getting as bad as Andy!  This post isn't terribly coherent and uses Andy as the supporting witness.  Not a great place to start.  Most of Andy's post was rambling tripe - an awkward landing by a very tired-looking Vulcan and a half-arsed attempt to conceal the unloading?  It just isn't the way these things would have been done - RAF procedures for handling nuclear weapons were very precise - not half-baked.  The whole story lacks credibility.

[Ashcollection]

3 minutes ago, 10FM68 said:

None of this supports your theory that the tanks were buried.  Why remove data plates and bury tanks when the government is concerned about a Soviet invasion?  And, again, insults - who are the G&T Oxford brigade?  How about explaining how you went from 326 tanks to 1400?  Where's the picture of you and a digger on this thread?  Where is the second pit?  What is your explanation for choosing a live air station for secret burial when there were masses of empty government-owned bits of land all over the place?  Why the inconsistencies regarding the tanks: some German ones apparently in your early post, some Bren carriers and Oxfords, loads of spares, some rubbish about lend-lease or having to pay the Canadians.  Offer us some answers to those questions.  But, I'm afraid, Paul Connor has hit the nail on the head: he's given scientific proof that there are no tanks buried at Waterbeach - proof, not opinion, assumption or speculation which is all you have been able to counter with.  We aren't ganging up on you, we aren't secretly working to undermine you on behalf of Lord Hammond, it is just that we think you have deliberately toyed with us which, as I have told you before, I find rude and insulting and nothing you have said makes any coherent sense - on any level: the tanks aren't there and you could come up with no reason why they should be.  Sadly, I think your dad was pulling your leg!

My dad had a good story when i was a kid about buried new crated Jeeps and B17 Engines on the airbase near us, he said he watched them bury them, and i believed him 100%, In my teens and learning about WW2 local history I started to think that didn't make much sense. About 20 odd years ago an aviation group found the pit and dug it up, no crated jeeps or engines, but lots of battle damage scrap and general camp waste, just like on every other airbase.

[andy brown]

5 minutes ago, 10FM68 said:

None of this supports your theory that the tanks were buried.  Why remove data plates and bury tanks when the government is concerned about a Soviet invasion?  And, again, insults - who are the G&T Oxford brigade?  How about explaining how you went from 326 tanks to 1400?  Where's the picture of you and a digger on this thread?  Where is the second pit?  What is your explanation for choosing a live air station for secret burial when there were masses of empty government-owned bits of land all over the place?  Why the inconsistencies regarding the tanks: some German ones apparently in your early post, some Bren carriers and Oxfords, loads of spares, some rubbish about lend-lease or having to pay the Canadians.  Offer us some answers to those questions.  But, I'm afraid, Paul Connor has hit the nail on the head: he's given scientific proof that there are no tanks buried at Waterbeach - proof, not opinion, assumption or speculation which is all you have been able to counter with.  We aren't ganging up on you, we aren't secretly working to undermine you on behalf of Lord Hammond, it is just that we think you have deliberately toyed with us which, as I have told you before, I find rude and insulting and nothing you have said makes any coherent sense - on any level: the tanks aren't there and you could come up with no reason why they should be.  Sadly, I think your dad was pulling your leg!

Hi re pic of digger  the thread was split  you'll have to scroll Back on the main listing as I had split the thread in two.from the out set I came to gather information not to impart it in the hope that someone would be able to through some light on the subject ,this through no fault of my own due in part people asked question as you might expect and I answered them to the best of my ability not that I was determined to bludgeon those who inquired into accepting my answers it was just common decency to reply ,wether or not they took it on board was niether here or  there...1400 well you have like everybody else wouldn't want to here the rest of the details .it's up to the individual to decide what to make of it .

[Ashcollection]

13 minutes ago, andy brown said:

Hi re pic of digger  the thread was split  you'll have to scroll Back on the main listing as I had split the thread in two.from the out set I came to gather information not to impart it in the hope that someone would be able to through some light on the subject ,this through no fault of my own due in part people asked question as you might expect and I answered them to the best of my ability not that I was determined to bludgeon those who inquired into accepting my answers it was just common decency to reply ,wether or not they took it on board was niether here or  there...1400 well you have like everybody else wouldn't want to here the rest of the details .it's up to the individual to decide what to make of it .

split the thread? so where is that other thread then? we have all been following it since 2016 when you first started it but never seen another thread on the subject, and I see you are back to the "not telling you" option haha. i guess we have to shout "I Believe" and take the leap of faith off the cliff before the truth is revealed!

[Ashcollection]

haha we know you are just messing us about, but as it takes only about 20 seconds to look through all your old posts, and oh surprise, no pictures of diggers right back to when you joined the HMVF. did the government have them deleted I ask myself?

If you have been genuine in you approach and the tanks had existed you would have been a hero by now, but doesn't look like that does it. I have found the people on this site are very helpful knowledgeable and resourceful, and bend over backwards to help anyone with a problem or question. Shame your approach hasn't inspired the same result, there might be a reason for that.

[radiomike7]

1 hour ago, 10FM68 said:

Tony, please don't go down this rabbit hole... you are in danger of getting as bad as Andy!  This post isn't terribly coherent and uses Andy as the supporting witness.  Not a great place to start.  Most of Andy's post was rambling tripe - an awkward landing by a very tired-looking Vulcan and a half-arsed attempt to conceal the unloading?  It just isn't the way these things would have been done - RAF procedures for handling nuclear weapons were very precise - not half-baked.  The whole story lacks credibility.

Not wanting to upset the applecart but there was a 5ft diameter spherical warhead used in Blue Danube, an early non boosted weapon. It would have been used inside a streamlined 24ft long weapon case to give stability.

[10FM68]

2 hours ago, radiomike7 said:

Not wanting to upset the applecart but there was a 5ft diameter spherical warhead used in Blue Danube, an early non boosted weapon. It would have been used inside a streamlined 24ft long weapon case to give stability.

 

No apple cart upset!  You just have to look through Andy's story to see that it makes no logical sense.  A Vulcan, being handled wildly with an apparent issue with its payload which then is unloaded in a casual manner by an incompetent crew (can't even fit a screen up properly).  We aren't told whether this was the Vulcan's home base, but, if it was, then the procedure would have been conducted, probably inside a hangar, at least in front of one, by a dedicated, extremely careful and precise crew.  If elsewhere, then why?  But, even then the procedure smacks of incompetence.  No, not credible even though nuclear weapons may well have spherical objects inside them - where had the casing gone and how and why...  Pure unadulterated codswallop - perhaps Andy was sharing a flagon of cider with the jolly reapers!

[andy brown]

1 hour ago, 10FM68 said:

No apple cart upset!  You just have to look through Andy's story to see that it makes no logical sense.  A Vulcan, being handled wildly with an apparent issue with its payload which then is unloaded in a casual manner by an incompetent crew (can't even fit a screen up properly).  We aren't told whether this was the Vulcan's home base, but, if it was, then the procedure would have been conducted, probably inside a hangar, at least in front of one, by a dedicated, extremely careful and precise crew.  If elsewhere, then why?  But, even then the procedure smacks of incompetence.  No, not credible even though nuclear weapons may well have spherical objects inside them - where had the casing gone and how and why...  Pure unadulterated codswallop - perhaps Andy was sharing a flagon of cider with the jolly reapers!

Hi I'm inclined to agree with all you have said with a couple of exeptions ,,this was the height of the Cuban crisis not that anyone here took much notice as there was a continuous diet at that time of atomic or hydrogen bombs as they put it tested  by almost anyone who could afford To do it.what set the ball rolling really was the arrival of the RAF military policeman bouncing across the airfield in his well worn mk 1 long wheel base land rover , almost bursting at the seams he kept out shouted we are expecting to go tored alert at any moment case this place is bound to be on there list of targets ,lept back in his machine and bounced back.recalltelling him I better eat my cheese and beetroot sandwiches then case there isn't a lot you can say when faced with oblivion,I'm at the tree line south west corner of the airfield furthest point from main gate from that poin lookin east the houses rise up a hill over which a vulcan appears ,from my standpoint it looked as though it was skidding across the very roof tops and was shifting no sedate approach belting out black smoke with what I assumed were air brake flaps down if he had been any closer to the main gate he would have been in the Farnborough road got to end of runway spun  left onto taxiway stil with bags of throttle blew two olboys and their fire slithering into the done another left cross the runway towards the back of national gas turbine centre ,this aircraft looked as the cars do on the east African rally ,,,five six minutes bomb bay doors open and as I am quarter of a mile away couldn't count how many men in white overalls were ther may be ten or twelve ,best described as a cradle on wheels positioned underneath while others either hooked or strapped a white canvas screen around the cradle and suspended fro m I think the bomb bay door s slowly was lowered what looked at that distance spherical although that said I am looking from ehind and could not see it side view but had the impression that it had some length as I could see figures. Ataching cables or pipes whilst standing on the front of the cradle,still others were having trouble closing the end of the canvas facing my direction  seemed to short to go round ..finished fitting pump coupling on tractor and left .....

[ruxy]

On 2/5/2023 at 5:42 PM, Great War truck said:

It might be an idea to mention Andy's other thread and see if we can draw any comparison:

 

https://avgeekery.com/dont-be-a-moron-and-stand-behind-a-jet-like-this-guy/

So Andy observes  - two pushbikes sent spinning 150 yards into the woods , two human grass-cutters gripping the grass so they didn't follow, engines throttled back for taxi condition .  This is what happens when aero engines rev up for take off.

Somewhere - there is a classic film where a floor sweeper with his brush walks past a jet engine exhaust in a lab.  It may have been Frank Whittles place.

 

[ruxy]

12 minutes ago, andy brown said:

Hi I'm inclined to agree with all you have said with a couple of exeptions ,,this was the height of the Cuban crisis not that anyone here took much notice as there was a continuous diet at that time of atomic or hydrogen bombs as they put it tested  by almost anyone who could afford To do it.what set the ball rolling really was the arrival of the RAF military policeman bouncing across the airfield in his well worn mk 1 long wheel base land rover , almost bursting at the seams he kept out shouted we are expecting to go tored alert at any moment case this place is bound to be on there list of targets ,lept back in his machine and bounced back.recalltelling him I better eat my cheese and beetroot sandwiches then case there isn't a lot you can say when faced with oblivion,I'm at the tree line south west corner of the airfield furthest point from main gate from that poin lookin east the houses rise up a hill over which a vulcan appears ,from my standpoint it looked as though it was skidding across the very roof tops and was shifting no sedate approach belting out black smoke with what I assumed were air brake flaps down if he had been any closer to the main gate he would have been in the Farnborough road got to end of runway spun  left onto taxiway stil with bags of throttle blew two olboys and their fire slithering into the done another left cross the runway towards the back of national gas turbine centre ,this aircraft looked as the cars do on the east African rally ,,,five six minutes bomb bay doors open and as I am quarter of a mile away couldn't count how many men in white overalls were ther may be ten or twelve ,best described as a cradle on wheels positioned underneath while others either hooked or strapped a white canvas screen around the cradle and suspended fro m I think the bomb bay door s slowly was lowered what looked at that distance spherical although that said I am looking from ehind and could not see it side view but had the impression that it had some length as I could see figures. Ataching cables or pipes whilst standing on the front of the cradle,still others were having trouble closing the end of the canvas facing my direction  seemed to short to go round ..finished fitting pump coupling on tractor and left .....

It happens ,  I well remember a case abt. 1986  - the start of RAF Leeming HAS shelters.   I was told to drop everything for a PSA job.  So - I reported to the gatehouse & showed ID , then I was directed to go to the Control Tower - this I did.  Flying Officer kite told me to get in my own car and drive down the runway to the far end where I would find the office.  I queried not being granted a LR 90" taxi  & was told the place was free of aircraft, I asked for it in writing that the place was not ELG status.  I was told to pi$$ off , so I drove down the runway until I hit the grass at 100 mph  !    No Portacabin - zilch ,  Then I heard a phone ring , so I raised the lid on a plastic dustbin  (Telecom had beat me) , at the other end of the line - Flying Officer kit enquired if I had located the office  ?  !

[Great War truck]

Just out of curiosity and because this topic needs some excitement to get it really going. 1962 RAF Farnborough, during the Cuban missile crisis. A Fordson major breaks down while cutting the grass and they call out an external agricultural engineer. Surely, the site is so big they would have their own RAF maintenance personnel who would be well aware of the repair and maintenance requirements for their own equipment and would not call in a company of agricultural engineers to fix it. I expect that there is a logical explanation for this though. Anybody?  

[andy brown]

36 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

Just out of curiosity and because this topic needs some excitement to get it really going. 1962 RAF Farnborough, during the Cuban missile crisis. A Fordson major breaks down while cutting the grass and they call out an external agricultural engineer. Surely, the site is so big they would have their own RAF maintenance personnel who would be well aware of the repair and maintenance requirements for their own equipment and would not call in a company of agricultural engineers to fix it. I expect that there is a logical explanation for this though. Anybody?  

Hi didn't think to mention it ,tractor belonged to Ground work who were based at stanwell middlesex just off the end of the runway at Heathrow they had a number of tractors plus gang mowers with the contract to cut the acres of grass at Heathrow also had a large cuttings drying plant at the time 

[No Signals]

At the risk of being got off the target, which of course we have been, you say you were 1/4 mile away from this Vulcan - so far away you could not actually count the number of men involved in the actions around it, yet you could clearly make out a five foot spherical object with coloured cables and pipework attached to it being unloaded partially behind a screen?  Hmmm.  That is not including the fact(?) that no Vulcan Squadrons were operating from there to the best of my limited research.  I am not familiar with Farnborough so cannot comment on the actual distance from your tree line to the 'research centre' so I would be interested to hear any comments from anyone other than Andy on the quoted distance.

[John F]

Yep, my dog saw it. But since dogs can't talk to humans it telepathically communicated what it saw to some passing aliens that passed the message on to me in a dream. That's all well and good, but I don't have a dog so I suspect a Government conspiracy to silence me, the dog & the aliens... hmmmm.

[paul connor]

Andy, here is an example of hindsight and hearsay mixed with oral testimonies.

While some of the information might be true from below, the much is lost in passage of time. We do not always quite remember events as they actually happened, rather our own subjective experiences within those events, which later we paste together to present a subjectively bias story for effect. 

 

Statement: I was at the War and Peace show 2003, when approached by an elderly gentleman who drove my ‘Saracen’ in Northern Ireland. He was very knowledgeable and knew the vehicle well. Presenting stories of ramming things and being shot at.

Reply: It was a Humber FV1612 Mk1 Pig, I owned it and I am pretty sure I was right. A Saracen has 6 wheels, not 4 and although I pointed this out, I was just a "stupid young man", how dare I challenge him.

 

Statement: I met an old gentleman while I was surveying some WW2 structures, who told me the pillboxes in the field I was in, were for shooting down Axis aircraft, which followed the river north to London. "That is how they navigated, you know?".

Reply: Type D F/W 24 pillboxes are for stop line defence, you cannot fire vertically inside one, even if you tried. Furthermore, the Axis did not bomb the UK with a road atlas as a guide. Subjective oral testimonies at their best.

 

Statement: When I was in Seaford surveying a fuel pumping station, I was told this was a flame fougasse (sea flame barrage for the sea, wrong name for a start), which would have been ignited had an invasion come. He remembered them testing it.

Reply: It was a fuel pump station for sea planes. Nothing to do with defence. No sea barrage defence in that area, as it was proved to be useless at the testing phase. None every tested in Sussex at all.

 

Statement: While generating data for a 3D rendering of a pillbox I was told by an elderly man walking a dog that these were built and manned by the Home Guard.

Reply: Pillboxes were to be manned with regular soldiers; by July/August 1940 when most pillboxes were built the LDV were in no position to defend stop lines. The main armament of such structures being Boys ATG, Bren LMG and small arms of which the LDV had very few. There was a large regular and TA force, as well as Canadian, Australian and New Zealand forces tasked with the invasion threat.

 

Statement: While sitting in a Land Rover XD Wolf 110, I was told by a REME veteran that I was in a Land Rover Series 3 Long Wheel base.

Reply: While at the Army recruiting day, in the RE Land Rover, I was quite sure that when we left the barracks that day, it was a Wolf, it certainly was at first parade and when it was signed out?

 

Statement: While recording a pillbox in Sussex, I was told how there was a 12-pounder artillery piece in this particular pillbox and he remembers them test firing it when he was a child.

Reply: The D F/W type 28 pillbox I was working at, which was fitted for a 6lb Hotchkiss QF gun, that was never actually fitted, could never accommodate a 12-pounder. The rear doorway is 1m wide and the embrasure too narrow for the barrel to traverse. Furthermore, home defence didn’t have such guns in this area at all during 1940-1941 which were tasked with stop line defence.

 

Oral testimonies are as dangerous as conspiracy theories, as in the modern era they are accepted with no quantifiable evidence. This is very prevalent in WW2 Archaeology, as everyone is an arm-chair-expert armed with the conversations of the past and the internet search engine. Thankfully I do not encounter this as much with prehistory!

"My mates Dad knapped that arrow head, he was firing at a bear over there, I remember it, it was black bear, it was a Tuesday. We buried some tanks afterwards under an apron. Good times back in the Neolithic, you've got it easy now. Cheese burgers were a penny then".

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by paul connor

[ferretfixer]

9 hours ago, John F said:

Yep, my dog saw it. But since dogs can't talk to humans it telepathically communicated what it saw to some passing aliens that passed the message on to me in a dream. That's all well and good, but I don't have a dog so I suspect a Government conspiracy to silence me, the dog & the aliens... hmmmm.

That's amazing! My Dog Talks to Me all the time, about a spectrum of Topics!

But I take what he tells Me. With a pinch of salt. As  Everyone knows He's a Liar!..... 🤣

[paul connor]

19 minutes ago, ferretfixer said:

That's amazing! My Dog Talks to Me all the time, about a spectrum of Topics!

But I take what he tells Me. With a pinch of salt. As  Everyone knows He's a Liar!..... 🤣

I have six sheep here in Germany, and they are always talking about buried tanks in a field they used to graze in, with remarkable detail. Olga, she is 9 now, suggested that there is a Panzerkampfwagon II, a Jagdpanzer achtunddreißig, and two Sonderkraftfahrzueg zwei buried in the corner under some brambles. Her father's friend saw that happen in the 50s, who told her and drew a plan on the ground with his hoof. She did suggest another area with Stermgeschütz Drei guns buried, but I think she is exaggerating with that second claim.

I once found a panel from the Amber Room while I was digging drainage in one of my fields, but it was not to my taste so I used my digger and front loader to break it up and put in a 20 ton container. It was terrible gaudish.

On a serious note, I did find a wheel from a GMC CCKW in a field locally with a 1944 dated tyre. Can someone please help me start a thread on that - as must be cover up! Nothing to do with being close to Wittmundhafen airfield and post war occupation, it has to mean something!

Edited February 7, 2023 by paul connor

[ferretfixer]

Paul, well you know what sheep are like? Alwasy 'Bleating' about something or another! 😁 

Look around the site where you found the wheel. There is bound to be another there also. Everyone knows they travel in Pairs!... Wheely, it's true!

I found one of Hitler's Gonads on a Training Area in Sennelager in Germany Once. I made it into a conker you know? 

Youll have to excuse me now, I'm just finishing off an Original Copy of one of Hitler's diaries!....😎

Edited February 7, 2023 by ferretfixer

[Matt W]

Still no photos of the digger.

[paul connor]

You need to look harder, Matt W

[Matt W]

You've found the missing evidence! It's all true then, I'm going to get my spade!!!! 

[ruxy]

4 hours ago, Matt W said:

You've found the missing evidence! It's all true then, I'm going to get my spade!!!! 

You'r too late , seems like Eddy8men has first bags on the lot !

[Matt W]

That's fine, there's a Valentine buried on the moor near my house, i'll dig that up instead!

[ruxy]

A few weeks ago within a local history book - I found a photograph of a Comet tank upside-down after going through a dry stone wall.  I think it was on the final driver assessment course between Barnard Castle & the village of Copley.  So at present time I am observing dry-stone walls instead of keeping by eyes on  a sometimes straight , with hills and bad corners 'Coal Road' (as it's known).  If ever I find the location , then I will take my 1942  ET  (English Tools /now Bulldog)  General Service spade and start digging - it may have continued to sink into soft earth.