Years of paint removal

[SebBrady]

Okay im not sure this is the right thread as i guess this could be a generic sort of post, but ive been asked to help strip down a friends FV432 as he wants to repaint it, and im just wondering what are the best tools/consumables for the job, ive never undertaken a repaint other than that on my car however i dont think the same "rules" apply.

So i just want to see what everyone else has used because you would have tried and tested and all experience and advice therefore is greatly appreciated.

So is this something i can nip to the local B and Q for or will this be something that requires a specialst set of tools etc,

 

then onto the final question, after its down to base layer is it best to take it back to metal and then primer it and build it up that way, or is it better to just go down to the primer?

If the first one what is the best primer that you would reccommend sorry if these are so simple we just have never done this before and would like to take the best approach to this.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Jonathan, Seb & Liam

[sirhc]

Do you have a decent air compressor? If yes then get a needle scaler.

 

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cat84-pistol-grip-needle-scaler-hammer

 

Paint the 432 will a good red oxide primer as a base coat.

[Sean N]

I hate needle guns. That's not a reason to use or not use them, but for me they're horrible, noisy, slow, inefficient tools that give you vibration white finger.

 

Whatever you use, (1) don't go to B&Q, as even if you use kit they sell, you'll buy it much cheaper from a workshop or industrial supply type place, (2) wear tyvek disposable overalls and a good mask as if it's got original NATO green IRR paint on, the stuff they put in the paint to make it IRR isn't nice and you don't want to be breathing it.

 

How far you take it down will depend on what condition the paint is in and how enthusiastic you feel. You may feel considerably less enthusiastic after you've been at it a while! At one extreme - sound, well adhered and relatively unweathered paint - you really only need to take the top layer off and key it. At the other extreme - lots of corrosion which is lifting all the paint, flaky paint right through to the base layer, paint that falls off if you look at it - you'd be taking the lot off.

[utt61]

Based on my experience with heavy paint and rust removal, my preference would be:

 

1. Wet blasting. Needs a wet blaster, massive (3 or 4 tool road compressor), and pressure fed helmet, so not easy. It gives the best control, quickest, and most satisfactory results.

 

2. Dry blasting. As above but less control, more mess, and harsher control and finish.

 

3. Needlegunning (or needlescaling). I wouldn't myself bother with a low quaility Machine Mart type toy, I'd get a professional quality low vibe tool if there's a lot to do. It is quicker, does a better job, and you're less likely to be crippled by vibration whitefinger. I use a Trelawney low vibe tool and have been very impressed. You will need a big compressor (not as big as for blasting though). See http://www.trelawnydirect.com/trelawny-vl303-low-vibration-needle-scaler.html

 

I avoid angle grinders with wire brushes or flaps since the burnished surface they tend to leave makes for poor paint adhesion.

[teletech]

I'm just getting started on paint removal myself. I bought a needle scaler and wasn't impressed, it was great in the corners and on the welds but for flat areas it was slow and didn't remove material very reliably. Perhaps a bigger gun and using it on steel will be better.

 

I'm going to buy a few gallons of aircraft remover and see if that works better for me.

[Diana and Jackie]

Buying an expensive low vibration needle scaler is a great idea if one has the money, then there's a compressor and the piping, an oiler etc, some of us cant justify the cost, but you should get anti-vibration gloves and definitely ear protectors.

 

Just started using a 2 pack primer from TA paints is absolutely BRILLIANT - even sticks to an aluminium pot on the spray gun and I cant get it off! great for ali and steel, 2nd coat with oxide then a topcoat.

 

It's not the same as 2 part topcoat auto paint is nothing like as dangerous and the same as the military originally used on their equipment.

 

Diana

 

 

 

 

Based on my experience with heavy paint and rust removal, my preference would be:

 

1. Wet blasting. Needs a wet blaster, massive (3 or 4 tool road compressor), and pressure fed helmet, so not easy. It gives the best control, quickest, and most satisfactory results.

 

2. Dry blasting. As above but less control, more mess, and harsher control and finish.

 

3. Needlegunning (or needlescaling). I wouldn't myself bother with a low quaility Machine Mart type toy, I'd get a professional quality low vibe tool if there's a lot to do. It is quicker, does a better job, and you're less likely to be crippled by vibration whitefinger. I use a Trelawney low vibe tool and have been very impressed. You will need a big compressor (not as big as for blasting though). See http://www.trelawnydirect.com/trelawny-vl303-low-vibration-needle-scaler.html

 

I avoid angle grinders with wire brushes or flaps since the burnished surface they tend to leave makes for poor paint adhesion.

[ploughman]

When we put our heavy plant through the RAF Bruggen paint bay for IRR painting, we stripped off all the old paint with Nitromors.

That included the Dozers, Tippers and Michigan Bucket loaders.

I hate to think how many barrels of the stuff we went through.

[SebBrady]

Had a look at the needle scalers and that is a considerable expense that really we can't justify. Is it just going to have to be a case of a lot of elbow grease if I am to shy from grinders and such?

[Diana and Jackie]

Nitromors is now difficult to get hold of, not impossible but difficult. The safe alternative is next to useless on many occasions.

 

Neither will work on the epoxy based finish on many fairly recent vehicles, parts and equipment.

 

Diana

 

When we put our heavy plant through the RAF Bruggen paint bay for IRR painting, we stripped off all the old paint with Nitromors.

That included the Dozers, Tippers and Michigan Bucket loaders.

I hate to think how many barrels of the stuff we went through.

[utt61]

I agree completely that a pro quality low vibe needle gun is expensive, and not everyone will want to or be able to fork out for one. I agonised for while and wore out a cheap one before deciding that, since I only have one pair of hands and will only ever have one pair, they were worth more than the £400 or so that a pro gun costs.

 

The contrast is staggering and I have never regretted it.

 

No point restoring something if doing so cripples you to the extent you can't enjoy it!

 

 

(The needlegun was a lot cheaper than the wet blaster)!

[Tony B]

On a 432 , with no doubt 40 layers of paint and muck, why not use a blow lamp? At the very least it lossens the paint to allow other methods to be more effective.

[Starfire]

Another option, of course, is to get a quote to have a professional blast it for you. You'll probably find that it costs about the same as buying the tools and consumables yourself, with a whole lot less hassle and mess.

 

Cheers,

Terry

[terryb]

I had to repaint a 432 that had layers of paint and rust and had been outside many years and tried; ball pein hammer-good fun but would take forever, nitromoors-time consuming and expensive,needle gun, yep,useless and WILL ruin your hands,angle grinder with twisted strand wire wheel-very good and cheap.

In the end I used a local grit blasting guy, who turned up with a truck with two compressors on. He masked frail items and glass with soft 'denso' tape, used a fairly coarse black grit and set to work. The noise and mess was incredible, but the finish was absolutely superb and flawless. He then dusted off and gave the whole vehicle a coat of red oxide.

The whole job from start to finish was 4 1/2 hours!

pros-best finish, and way cheaper than buying tools or paint stripper

cons-big sweep up outside, even bigger hoover up inside!

How do ABRO do it??????

[Lauren Child]

I know you are put off by the price of the needle scaler, but this is another vote for them, as long as you use a decent one with chisel tipped needles.

 

Flat or blunt needles are a real grind and don't do much unless the paint is very brittle.

 

As ever you need to know how to use them safely. Check the guidance on the HSE website etc.

[andym]

Another vote for paying someone who has the right tools to do it for you, if you can afford it. I got a firm in Devon (K Blasting) to blast the Abbot back to bare metal, a coat of Sigma marine primer (a lovely shade of pink!) and two pack Sigma epoxy DBG topcoat. However, never underestimate how much mess the blasting makes - no matter how well you cover everything, the grit will get everywhere!

 

And in response to the ABRO question they blast the hull after stripping it bare, that's how the Bulldogs were done.

 

Andy

[Richard Farrant]

How do ABRO do it??????

 

Terry,

When I was with ABRO (and before that as REME Workshops), if an AFV was to be repainted, it was not taken down to bare metal, but rubbed back with sanders, any damaged areas prepared and then painted. We had a full time paintshop with all the facilities. They came out looking pristine too. No blasting was done there.

 

This was not rebuilds, but when units requested a repaint

Edited June 7, 2015 by Richard Farrant
last sentence added

[paulbrook]

Years ago I visited 23 Base Workshops at Wetter in Germany where they refurbished both 43 series and Chieftain.

 

The APCs were stripped of all their assemblies and wheels then the whole hull was dipped in an enormous vat of boiling caustic solution for a few hours and it came out completely stripped of all traces of paint inside and out. It was then pressure washed off and painted before going onto the assembly line to be rebuilt. Every last nut bolt and widget was removed, checked for condition and if OK refurbished then reused. Most impressive.

 

As for this job if you really want it gleaming then blasting really is the only option. In my opinion....

[BRDM Driver]

Anyone tried dry ice blasting? No mess to clear up - other than paint flakes I guess...

[cosrec]

I guess its all down to budget and what you value your own time at. Call in mobile blaster to work for day and a half clean off and spray good coat under coat £500 spend

300 plus hrs with what ever tools available get truly sick and depressed doing it I don't know but will say been there done that both ways

[ruxy]

You can spend lots of ££ for a Trelawny needle scaler , for my money the top $ is a Von Arx (Swiss) . Having said that about 3 years ago I picked up a Taiwanese manufactured (copy of a Trelawny in-line) in fact sold under ther Compair automotive (cheaper) range , a model APT114D (probably obsolete model) for £30 - I use thermal gloves (useless in winter as hardly thermal, I obtain better now) , vibration levels were quite low. I don't think there would be any problem from vibration white finger.

 

Times have moved on , so has equipment - I recall doing my turn "dry-dock" and having a go with the real primitive scalers & scrablers. Incidently the top-sides were done by the lascar gang with hand hammers in tune to the serang who used a sledge LoL

 

Stripped aux. engines such Rustons , many parts were put into a barrel with caustic soda with a steam hose passing in to boil, a young paniwalla placed some big-end brasses in and it stripped the white-metal , as a junior eng. that was something useful that I then learned - and my first job as a apprentice was operating the Butler shaper in the brass foundry of a BR workshop roughing out the white metal..