eddy8men Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 no magic mushrooms, divining rods, peace pipes or tv personalities. just plain old mag or ground radar is what's required. the vines are worth a lot of money so we have to be sure and more importantly the vineyard owner has to sure that we are spot on before i start digging. i'd like to pull the known tank out first (before xmas) and worry about any others after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 no magic mushrooms, divining rods, peace pipes or tv personalities. just plain old mag or ground radar is what's required. the vines are worth a lot of money so we have to be sure and more importantly the vineyard owner has to sure that we are spot on before i start digging. i'd like to pull the known tank out first (before xmas) and worry about any others after that Oh that's a shame it would be interesting to see Bob in action with his rods ! Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surveyor Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Just hope the ground radar is not set for Polish ground Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 if bob wants to show us his rods in action then who am i to say no :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 (edited) Just hope the ground radar is not set for Polish ground And false signals triggered by crated Jeeps and Spitfire parts buried there too! Edited November 24, 2016 by Nick Johns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondshooter Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Turning up with proven equipment and trained operator's will give the owner and any spectators (standing in the field or watching on TV) confidence that they have the right people doing the job. it may be logistically better to drag up all the targets identified in one hit (could be other interesting things down there besides tanks) , although splitting the job into several parts ,a survey with electronics , taking time to decipher the data , coming back with the heavy equipment , fixing the holes up. Just remember to take loads of pictures ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 i'd love to go in guns blazing but i am only too aware of how much work is involved in making good the groundworks after the "party" has finished and it's a daunting task and no mistake, digging and recovering this stuff is fairly straight forward. getting all the "dig out" back together in the order it came out in, is not. so with that in mind it would be nice for me to get the known covenanter out as a one off then clear up, go away and come back for any others with a fresh head and hands. if this was a farmers field they would already have been recovered but it's not, it's britains biggest vineyard which makes things more interesting :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 i'd like to mention the part clive hughes and his son ian have played in this effort. about 15 years ago clive and ian went looking for elusive other covenanter and after buying a magnetometer and spending 6 days or more searching they found it. unfortunately for them it was not economically viable at the time to remove the vines and pay for the damages so the recovery was dropped (until i came along) and it was ian that got in touch with me and offered his services free of charge to take me to the tank and help liase with the owner, i've now dragged him in even more and have asked to use the mag detector again so to to clive, ian, tony and those that have offered advice and encouragement i would like to say thank you and iou a beer :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surveyor Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 i'd love to go in guns blazing but i am only too aware of how much work is involved in making good the groundworks after the "party" has finished and it's a daunting task and no mistake, digging and recovering this stuff is fairly straight forward. getting all the "dig out" back together in the order it came out in, is not. so with that in mind it would be nice for me to get the known covenanter out as a one off then clear up, go away and come back for any others with a fresh head and hands. if this was a farmers field they would already have been recovered but it's not, it's britains biggest vineyard which makes things more interesting :-D Not sure re this question, would it be more economic to dig them all out if close together and back fill then remove salvage when convenient e.g. over a few weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Lawrence Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Rick, here are the copies that I mentioned earlier. For some unknown reason I could not upload them from my computer to a PM. Essentially they consist of a thesis regarding the line of a Roman road, Stane Street where the archaelogists in 1958 thought that they had found a new line of the road but then realised that it was actually the filled in anti tank ditch. The measurements and observations on the map might be of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Lawrence Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Rick, Try this link http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=17&lat=51.2418&lon=-0.3415&layers=10&right=BingSat it appears to show a line of a ditch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surveyor Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 Rick, Try this link http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/sidebyside.cfm#zoom=17&lat=51.2418&lon=-0.3415&layers=10&right=BingSat it appears to show a line of a ditch Tony Great System, its helping by daughter at University as they are looking at the redevelopment of Dundee Waterfront Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 26, 2016 Author Share Posted November 26, 2016 good work tony, i think there is a lesson for us to be learned. it's very easy to interpret what's on the ground to what you want there to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garys39 Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 This would also be worth a look, I've seen some of the wartime and early postwar photos of aircraft crash sights (crater and ground disturbance etc), so a tank ditch and buried tank/tanks, might be visible, a bit like the footing of a long lost building, where during the summer months the shadow appears in the ground. https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/archive/collections/aerial-photos/ Regards Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 This image is interesting. Oblique, unfortunately, but a 1948 shot from the south clearly showing a rough chalk line across Denbies. A marker tag someone's put on it, middle left, says 'Course of the WWII tank ditch, now infilled': http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw015273 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packhow75 Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 http://ncap.org.uk Aerial photos from WW2 perhaps? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draganm Posted November 30, 2016 Share Posted November 30, 2016 Wow, was gone for week and now all this good news , Hooray :-D Just hope the ground radar is not set for Polish ground LOL, will I think it's only fair to point out that the folks from the Polish National Geology Institute were 100% correct. They said " there might be a tunnel but there is no train." they were challenged in that finding by the 2 guys who wound up digging there but I remember the Professor in charge saying "It's normal to make a mistake but foolish to repeat it" just prior to excavation. So contacting a local University and getting a few geologists out there out there might be the best way to make sure nothing is left behind. I work with University Faculty daily and they are almost without exception very easy to talk to and deal with because they are very passionate about their pursuits, just Intelligent people who love what they do. They are also almost always looking for a chance to give their senior students a chance to apply the skills and use the equipment they have learned in the classroom out in a real world setting. Also important, since it's a learning/teaching opportunity you don't pay them like you would a private business. It might make things easier to have a detailed scan of the site now than digging now and digging again later? just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surveyor Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 (edited) draganm Good point as a training exercise for students, might be able to build up a report to help on other sites as part of their courses Edited December 1, 2016 by Surveyor spellin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 i've put the feelers out to uni's and professionals alike, whatever happens i get the feeling it will cost me at least £500 but it's worth it to get the go ahead to dig the covenanter out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 i've put the feelers out to uni's and professionals alike, whatever happens i get the feeling it will cost me at least £500 but it's worth it to get the go ahead to dig the covenanter out I wouldn't mind sponsoring you for 50 GBP to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Now there's a thought - crowdfunding a dig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 that's a very kind offer olaf. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 soon very soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy1960 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Any news Rick ? We are all sitting on the edge of seats waiting for the next instalment !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 still can't get the geo fizz sorted, tried to hire a magnetometer and do it myself but the firm wanted mod approval beforehand. there is an archeology guy willing to help but he still hasn't got back to me, so it looks like i will have failed my immediate mission to put my hand on the covenanter before xmas but never mind it will still be there in the new year. i will keep you all posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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