Mathewson Auction Austin K2

[matchlesswdg3]

Nice looking 1941 Austin K2 fire engine coming up next week at Mathewsons! 

[Rootes75]

That is a nice looking Austin.

[Runflat]

...and there's a big sign on the back saying its a K3 🙂

[Richard Farrant]

I am sure that it is actually a K4, all the large NFS Austins were that model.

[Rootes75]

Agreed, it will be a K4. A ladder escape unit.

[matchlesswdg3]

And that Austin ambulance is STILL waiting for a successful bid!

 

[ted angus]

Some 10years ago I looked into this actual vehicle: I will call it a wolf in sheep's clothing !   The first massed produced SELF PROPELLED appliance by the Home Office for war emergency use was the HEAVY UNIT.  It first appeared in 1938 on a Ford 7V chassis, subsequently produced on Bedford and Austin chassis plus a small number on Morris Commercials. 3 fire engineering companies produced their own version of the actual self contained pumping unit- pump directly coupled to an engine of between 29 & 33 hp , fuel tank and cooling system enclosed in a cowling all mounted on its own short chassis, which was bolted to the vehicle chassis.. The Heavy Unit had 4 deliveries and was rated at 700 approx gpm

Irrespective of chassis manufacturer the actual carrying vehicle had its body work constructed by various bodybuilders  to a fairly standard Home Office design, a key recognition feature is  one locker behind the rear axle and 2 forward of the axle to carry delivery hose and other items.   The Austin chassis used was mainly  the Austin K2 with its 6 stud front wheels. In addition to the Heavy Units the Home Office designed an EXTRA HEAVY UNIT following a similar design, but very few were built.  The EHU had a pumping unit powered by a 49 hp engine coupled to a pump of 1100gpm with 6 deliveries. To accommodate the extra weight and the need for extra delivery hose stowage  a heavier and longer  Austin chassis was used. ( also a few on Bedford chassis).  It retains the single locker behind the rear axle but has 3 lockers forward of the axle.  It has a 8 stud front wheel so I assumed it was a Austin K4.   So why would the owner display a board on the rear saying Austin K3,   In 2010 I was sent some pictures of this machine FYY288 at a show and realised it was actually a Heavy Unit pumping unit mounted on what had been manufactured as an Extra Heavy Unit vehicle. So I contacted someone and asked them if they could take a photo of the chassis number plate- I have attached that  photo.  So after years of assuming these EHUs were Austin K4s they were actually Austin K3 long wheel base.     I had never previously considered it to be a K3 as I had always associated the K3 with military single wheels and tyres with a mesh reinforced radiator grill and brushbar !  I had totally forgotten that there was a pre war K3 model sporting dual rear tyres for both civil and military use, the military version most of which were lost in France in 1940 had an open canvas topped cab, whereas the BEF also had some with an fully enclosed steel cab - most of which I believe were impressed.  Returning to the war emergency Home Office appliances the Austin K4 was employed in fairly sizeable numbers as 50Ft wheeled escape carriers, 60ft turntable ladders and mobile dam lorries-, a water carrying vehicle with an on-board light pump and often towing a trailer pump, plus some later Heavy Units were mounted on the K4.. 

 TED.

Edited December 6, 2020 by ted angus
correction

[radiomike7]

Hi Ted, I assume you meant an 8 stud wheel🎱?

[ted angus]

Yes I did, thanks Mike I have corrected both stud numbers- brain was fogged with numbers  TED

 

[Rootes75]

Thats interesting Ted, so it is a K3. I had assumed it to be a K4 probably like many others would have.

[Radek]

This K3 is early 1940 manufactured.

[Richard Farrant]

The registration number is mid 1940 so that fits.

[radiomike7]

DVLA have it as first reg in in March '83 and built in 1941, info could be wrong and it could be that it managed to retain its original reg number. Back in 1983 when the LVLOs were in existance it was easy to pull the wool over their eyes with no vehicle checks.

[rupert condick]

Hi all

The registration is for FYY 228 ,Jan 1940, 5625, K3/SL London.

So All looks good for a gen appliance,

regs

rup

[ted angus]

its FYY288

[Radek]

9 hours ago, ted angus said:

its FYY288

it is only Rupert´s missclick 😉

[rupert condick]

Cheers Radek,

Can I blame the computer?

regs

rupert

[XS650]

I wonder why none of these wartime pumps used the vehicle engine with a pto for pumping.

Would seem much more economical on materials in wartime.

[ted angus]

5 hours ago, rupert condick said:

Cheers Radek,

Can I blame the computer?

regs

rupert

of course  I always blame my age !!   Ted.

[ted angus]

3 hours ago, XS650 said:

I wonder why none of these wartime pumps used the vehicle engine with a pto for pumping.

Would seem much more economical on materials in wartime.

I have extracts from a huge HMG report looking at the emergency fire service in UK 1938 to 1946. the self contained pump units could be mounted in canal barges, on Acedes 2 axle trailers, on auxiliary fire boats, on hardstanding beside lakes, on bridges or on vehicle chassis. This meant with minimal modification a pumping unit could be reallocated. If a vehicle broke down or was written off the pump unit could be removed  as a complete unit. There were 3 types of Heavy unit, in terms of mounting on a vehicle it was just a few bolts and the electrical connection between the pumping unit and vehicle battery. TED.

 

[john1950]

With a gearbox mounted P.T.O. they were slow speed and not suitable or able to use the full power of the engine. Compressors, hydraulic pumps, and slow speed generators  are the usual items powered by this means.

[ted angus]

PTO driven pumps was the normal practise in the 1930s for fire engines, the reason to go self contained was the ability to move the unit between chassis or other use. TED

[Robert t]

I was the reluctant seller, it was a K3, Mathewsons misdescribed it. It was built as an EHU but the pump was lost many years ago, and a Heavy unit pump added over 10 years ago now the pump is powered by a ford tractor engine. The K3 was a hybrid, K2 brakes K4 wheels, and interesting to stop, but would cruise at 45-50 on the flat (eventually)

PS the ambulance is not as good in person as it looks in the pictures

[7VHU]

Hi Ted,

FYI 160 is a January 1940 Ford 7V heavy unit so could easily be late 1940 or early 1941.

Brgds

Peter McCombie

Dennis light 4

Austin K2/SL

and a handful of trailer pumps ( ex NFS)

[ted angus]

Hi . Peter   it must be 30 or 31 years since we met at the Leuchars airshow. Your 7v left me in awe !  Where is she now?     Regards Ted