Dan77 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 On 8/13/2018 at 4:35 PM, matchlesswdg3 said: Well done, Dan! Best of luck with the project......they are nice bits of kit. Thanks, I think I’ll need it with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 12:48 PM, Dan77 said: I have been thinking about this a lot. A dog clutch arrangement with the shaft held by a bearing each side would work. But it would Be nice to have the disconnect remote so you don’t have to crawl under the load deck. Perhaps a take off from the air somewhere would do it. Electromagnetic clutches would be a good solution then there would be no need for dog clutches. Then just a flick of a switch to bring them in or out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 9:40 AM, lowfat said: you can disconnect and remove the driveshafts to the front and rear wheels. Your stolly is now 2 wheel drive and alleged behaves better. Many people talk of manufacturing disconnects to use on the go its very popular in Australia . I only know of two Stalwarts in Australia and only one has disconnects, although I cannot recollect the method used. The owner has also changed the transfer box gear ratio and can achieve a road speed of 60mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said: I only know of two Stalwarts in Australia and only one has disconnects, although I cannot recollect the method used. The owner has also changed the transfer box gear ratio and can achieve a road speed of 60mph. I think I read about this somewhere. The other guy with the stolly posted his restoration process on a forum. I take my hat off to him after reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfat Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 the difficulty with the stalwart is the lack of space around the drive shafts and supporting the 2 inch thick solid steel 3 foot long shafts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Ron Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Three Known Stalwarts in Australia and only one so far with the disconnects and gear ratio changes. The shafts as mentioned are super heavy, but to support them requires a split type ,self aligning bearing as the shaft is smaller than the splines on the muff couplings either end. That bearing is extremely expensive. Everyone who has done it has used the standard ( modified) muff coupling as the clutch and it also supports the weight of the shaft. It is not ideal, but it works. The coupling is usually moved by air, but has also been done by cable. Plan to fit couplings in time my self using the best ideas from people who have aready done it. driving a Stalwart on a hard surface goes poorly. driving a Stalwart on muddy surfaces becomes alive performance wise. seeing the 60 mph stalwart go and the distances it drives regularly in Australia without trouble , it is a worth while conversion. Thanks about the comments about my humble site. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-and-variations/118657-ultimate-fc.html Ron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfat Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Thanks for poping in Ron.. still follow your adventures with the Ultimate forward control.. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 10 hours ago, 101 Ron said: Three Known Stalwarts in Australia and only one so far with the disconnects and gear ratio changes. The shafts as mentioned are super heavy, but to support them requires a split type ,self aligning bearing as the shaft is smaller than the splines on the muff couplings either end. That bearing is extremely expensive. Everyone who has done it has used the standard ( modified) muff coupling as the clutch and it also supports the weight of the shaft. It is not ideal, but it works. The coupling is usually moved by air, but has also been done by cable. Plan to fit couplings in time my self using the best ideas from people who have aready done it. driving a Stalwart on a hard surface goes poorly. driving a Stalwart on muddy surfaces becomes alive performance wise. seeing the 60 mph stalwart go and the distances it drives regularly in Australia without trouble , it is a worth while conversion. Thanks about the comments about my humble site. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/101-forward-controls-and-variations/118657-ultimate-fc.html Ron Hi Ron, Reading your posts about restoring your stolly was the inspiration for me to buy mine, after wanting one for 25 years. I really enjoyed reading it You’ll have to excuse my ignorance, but would you mind explaing (without going to too much trouble) how the disconnect happens in the muff coupling as that seems much better than what I was thinking but I don’t quite understand it? thanks in advance Ron Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daleheywoodtanks Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Dan77 said: Hi Ron, Reading your posts about restoring your stolly was the inspiration for me to buy mine, after wanting one for 25 years. I really enjoyed reading it You’ll have to excuse my ignorance, but would you mind explaing (without going to too much trouble) how the disconnect happens in the muff coupling as that seems much better than what I was thinking but I don’t quite understand it? thanks in advance Ron Dan Ditto. I am also half looking into the 'disconnect' option. Awaiting knowledge from a superior being ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfat Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 You take the shaft joining muff which is about 4 inches long. Machine the splines away for about 1 inch. So you end up with 3 inches of the 4 inch tube or muff with splines and 1 inch nice and smooth. It’s this smooth part of the tube which no longer drives anything but supports the shaft when you slide the muff to disengage drive. That’s the theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, lowfat said: You take the shaft joining muff which is about 4 inches long. Machine the splines away for about 1 inch. So you end up with 3 inches of the 4 inch tube or muff with splines and 1 inch nice and smooth. It’s this smooth part of the tube which no longer drives anything but supports the shaft when you slide the muff to disengage drive. That’s the theory. Thanks for that. I see what you mean now. Doesn’t it need To turn in a bearing? One other thing I can’t get my head around is how it syncs up on re-engagement? Sorry for all the silly questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Remember that when the drive is disconected both the drive shaft, driven shaft and the coupling are still rotating at almost the same speed unless you get serious wheel spin with it disconected. On the road the difference in speed is only that caused by different circumferences on tyres and the different paths that the wheels take on corners. This is enough to cause huge stresses in the drive line on a hard surface but actually amounts to very little relative movement. The biggest problem is moving the modified muff coupling so that there is no load on the selector mechanism at either end of the movement and the actual bearing between the muff coupling and the mechanism is lubricated. You could have a spring to keep it either engaged or disengaged but then the bearing would be loaded the whole time it is in the opposite position. This works well enough with a conventional clutch but that only spends a short time with the bearing under load. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Ron Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Like lowfat said the outside splined part of the coupling is machined away by about Three quarters to may be One inch. The out side of the coupling gets a coller welded onto it so a fork can move the outer part of the coupling backwards or forwards. A air cylinder is the best way to move the fork and coupling as the vehicle has air already advailable and the air will leave a constant pressure on the coupling to engage or disengage until the splines line up or the load is removed from the coupling. Further support can be given to the coupling and shaft by making a special coller which replaces one lock nut on the tee bevel box and extends Three quarters the way around the out side of the muff coupling. Grease nipple to be fitted where possible. The access needed to do this means fuel, hydraulic tanks out and a lot of work. The vehicle will go much better on hard surfaces, instead of being a big gustless lump due to wind up. The effects of the auto locking diff on road are reduced too. As lowfat pointed out clearences and room around the shafts is poor and will not allow any other affordable drive disconnect options. The Australian converted Stalwart cruises at 50 mph with out stress with a top speed of over 60 mph with specially cut transfercase case gears. None of which would be possible without the removal of inter wheel wind up The Australian Stalwart has no trouble crusing the highways travelling more than 400 miles in a day. In the UK you have many examples of drive disconnects done to reduce maintance. Driving on the centre wheels appears to cause no problems and any failure will be confined to the centre tracta joints which is not too big a job to replace. Removing interwheel wind up allows lubrication to re applied to the tracta joint surfaces just by backing on or off the throttle in most normal driving which is not possible with a standard Stalwart unless you go off road or run over the railway sleepers placed on the road way as done by the British army. When a standard Stalwart goes down a hard surfaced flat road the tracta joints load up on side only due to differences in tyre diameter and over a period in time the oil between those surfaces squeezes out and the tracta joint becomes dry and picks up metal unless the load though the joint is reversed and the oil is allowed to reapply its self. Ron Edited August 18, 2018 by 101 Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I have considered doing this on mine, but is the trouble really worth it? If you want to drive it a lot on roads just take the drive shafts out. If you don't, leave them in. There's also the question of whether or not the wind-up is really an issue. There's a lot of myth and rumour floating around but I know from experience with other vehicles that these things have a life of their own even when completely untrue. Has anyone actually broken a drive line in civilian ownership? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 There is no question in my mind that transmission wind up is a major issue on hard surfaces. A WW2 Daimler Dingo has a similar H drive layout with both wheels on each side permanently coupled together and then independent suspension with tracta joints. It weighs only about 3 tons and in a straight line on a hard, flat surface can be pushed by two people. As soon as you try to turn you need about ten people to push it. Add two more wheels, more grippy tyres and a lot more weight and the extra drag is tremendous, hence the difference in driving on a firm but slippery surface vs a road. I totaly agree with all that 101 Ron wrote above. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Ron Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 (edited) Reverse any standard Stalwart on full lock on concrete, say though a gate way and the driver will feel the vehicle load up and take alot of energy and power to do the turn. When you do this sort of move you usually you have someone guiding you because of the poor rearwards visibility. .......the person guiding you can normally see the wheels slip and the tyres leave black scrub marks. If travelling on hard roads tyre wear is enormous on a standard Stalwart if you are doing any sort of real distances..................the British army could afford it, but I cannot. Three options for long distance hard road surface driving of a Stalwart. 1......leave as standard and it will chew though tyres,fuel and go poorly to what it could be with the chance of a tracta joint or bevel box going bang if they are not in top condition or have water in them though swimming. 2.......transport the Stalwart on a truck or low loader trailer to where it needs to go and have the expense or paying for this or maintaining another very large vehicle to transport the Stalwart. 3 ..... Go to the trouble of fitting drive disconnects between wheels which will take time and some money to do, but if the transmission has to come out for another problem, then its not much trouble at all. If the transmission has to come out it would be a great time to fit higher ratio Saracen transfer case gears, but this can be done with some trouble without removing the transfer case from the vehicle. Everyone has different use patterns for a Stalwart and everyones needs are different. The Stalwart was designed to follow a tank off road and it does that well. The next time you look at a Saracen and then a Stalwart with a standard supension ride height, look at the tracta joint angles. Sarasen is about 15 degrees angle on the rear wheel set and the Stalwart is about 40 degrees unloaded rear wheel set at standard suspension adjustment height. Stalwart tracta joints work hard. Ron Edited August 18, 2018 by 101 Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 I'm not disagreeing with anything that's been said here, especially from an engineering point of view, but has anyone with reset ride height actually broken anything in civilian use? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) Post removed Edited August 28, 2018 by Dan77 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Heroic stuff!! Its amazing how cutting edge the Stolly still looks, alongside modern bits of kit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Dan77 said: Well, she is finally on the mainland, only suffered a cracked glass, so could have been worse. Is that going off the island or coming ashore on the mainland? Made a bit of a mess of the beach..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Tarland said: Is that going off the island or coming ashore on the mainland? Made a bit of a mess of the beach..... It’s coming off the island. The mass of equipment being landed on the island has done that to the beach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I presume you had a slipway to recieve the landing craft at the other end and the tractor to push the stolly off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Tarland said: I presume you had a slipway to recieve the landing craft at the other end and the tractor to push the stolly off? They did indeed. It’s now on a low loader travelling to our workshops in Warrington so should arrive some time tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matchlesswdg3 Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Hope the PO stashed a bottle of malt under the dash! You may need it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan77 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, matchlesswdg3 said: Hope the PO stashed a bottle of malt under the dash! You may need it! I think you might be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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