simon king Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Anybody know much about this -apparently to be the subject of a Channel 4 documentary marking the centenary of Cambrai. Seems that the hull has been made by JCB and that it will use modern mechanicals. Press are reporting that there appears to be some hiccup with driving it through Lincoln due to Health and Safety concerns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Looks like Health & Safety have got involved. See here:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/03/tank-cannot-appear-home-town-remembrance-day-parade-safety-fears/ Bit of a shame, the actual replica looks quite good, unlike some of them ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 A bit difficult to judge without more information but it looks as though the Council made suggestions about improvements that the TV company chose not to implement. Andy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 5 hours ago, andym said: A bit difficult to judge without more information but it looks as though the Council made suggestions about improvements that the TV company chose not to implement. Andy Be careful... Local authorities are pass masters at making unpopular decisions appear to be someone else's doing.... They are full of completely hopeless and useless shysters, charlatans and chancers... devious and sly... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Biggest problem, to be fair, might just be potential damage to the brick pave from 26 tons on steel tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Well shoppers are lot more important than history.... what a nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just before the Poppy Day collection in 1985 I offered our M4A1 Grizzly to the RBL as a focal point. I was very happy to comply as I would drive the tank .9 of one mile to the centre of the town, which would be interesting and fun. I asked the local Police if I could have the services of a Panda car as escort and so a senior Police officer came to see me and suggested (told) that it was not a good idea as I may have an 'heart attack' and the tank then could veer away and hit oncoming traffic or crush pedestrians. So in a total of say 10 minutes there and 10 minutes back a fit 34 year old was doomed...... We took wheeled vehicles for many years afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 You mean like the 77 year old bus driver a couple of years back? Why not just put the thing on a low loader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo.T Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 More details are emerging and it seems the local constabulary were demanding £20,000 to police the event, which is possibly why the TV company baled out. There are rumours of a plan'B' but details are as yet under wraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, Tomo.T said: More details are emerging and it seems the local constabulary were demanding £20,000 to police the event, which is possibly why the TV company baled out. There are rumours of a plan'B' but details are as yet under wraps. That means there was a covert operation to extract cash for the 'privilege' of showing a piece of local history at an important event...whilst employing the canopy of 'health & safety' to conceal the real motive... Never let the truth get in the way of a good story... Edited November 6, 2017 by flandersflyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 (edited) On 04/11/2017 at 4:28 PM, Citroman said: Well shoppers are lot more important than history.... what a nonsense. Airbrushing out history is more important to them than anything else...including shopping... Perhaps they will go all the way and give us a detailed account of "EU...the first 30 years" ...or a rendition of Richard "club remoan" Branson and his meteoric rise to prominence... They've been conducting a sustained program of social conditioning for 30 odd years now...the tools employed being schools, universities, the BBC and other left thinking institutions...auld uncle Joe would have recognised this pogrom against tradition and common sense...no doubt he would have granted it his seal of approval... The UK is currently being smothered by an army of bureaucratic, pen wielding Stasi...its a blanket of "officialdom"... faceless, grey, stultifying little modern reformists that have managed to lie, sneak and insinuate themselves into virtually every aspect of public life...answerable only to the Council gauleiter there they sit...hiding away in equally bland offices...making decisions amongst each other on what passes as acceptable for popular public consumption in their fiefdoms...such as the attendance of a replica tank to the town that originally spawned them... They simply can't stand nor cope with the notion that Britain had a history before 1975...their unending mission has been...and continues to be the complete destruction of any national pride, identity and self determination... This latest attack...under the guise of "public health & safety" being just another example... Edited November 6, 2017 by flandersflyer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 Just out of interest, have you ever been to Lincoln High Street, especially around the war memorial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Grundy Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 5 hours ago, flandersflyer said: Airbrushing out history is more important to them than anything else...including shopping... Perhaps they will go all the way and give us a detailed account of "EU...the first 30 years" ...or a rendition of Richard "club remoan" Branson and his meteoric rise to prominence... They've been conducting a sustained program of social conditioning for 30 odd years now...the tools employed being schools, universities, the BBC and other left thinking institutions...auld uncle Joe would have recognised this pogrom against tradition and common sense...no doubt he would have granted it his seal of approval... The UK is currently being smothered by an army of bureaucratic, pen wielding Stasi...its a blanket of "officialdom"... faceless, grey, stultifying little modern reformists that have managed to lie, sneak and insinuate themselves into virtually every aspect of public life...answerable only to the Council gauleiter there they sit...hiding away in equally bland offices...making decisions amongst each other on what passes as acceptable for popular public consumption in their fiefdoms...such as the attendance of a replica tank to the town that originally spawned them... They simply can't stand nor cope with the notion that Britain had a history before 1975...their unending mission has been...and continues to be the complete destruction of any national pride, identity and self determination... This latest attack...under the guise of "public health & safety" being just another example... Well said! I agree with your sentiments entirely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 36 minutes ago, 11th Armoured said: Just out of interest, have you ever been to Lincoln High Street, especially around the war memorial? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 51 minutes ago, 11th Armoured said: Just out of interest, have you ever been to Lincoln High Street, especially around the war memorial? Now you'll tell me it'd be neigh on impossible to get this tank into position in or near the square... Anything is possible...if the will exists to make it so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwardle Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 5 hours ago, Bob Grundy said: Well said! I agree with your sentiments entirely. So do I, a few years ago West Wiltshire MVT came up with a proposal to build a full size accurate replica Mk IV female tank to replace the presentation tank that was given to Trowbridge in 1919 in recognition of the town raising £1,000,000 pounds for the war effort, which was an amazing amount for a population of 12,500 at the time. After getting support from our local MP, a lot of research, finding someone to build it and sourcing funding, we had a meeting with Trowbridge town council for permission to put the tank in the town park where the original presentation tank was sited. Well that meeting was something else, with councilours ranting that we were glorifying war and one said that all we wanted to do was "kill a kraut' which was rather embarrassing as there were delegates from the German twin town at the meeting. Needless to say, we didn't get permission to put the tank in the park and all our time and effort wasted, although I did manage to read an original 1916 Mk IV tank operating manual as part of the research. Back to the Guy Martin replica, I have read that the Channel 4 programme about building the MkIV will be shown around Remembrance Day, in the same article it states that the Norfolk Tank Museum is preparing a 1948 Rolls Royce engine and drivetrain to power the tank, could it be a Meteor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 The program airs on November 19th. The engine is a B60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 31 minutes ago, johnwardle said: So do I, a few years ago West Wiltshire MVT came up with a proposal to build a full size accurate replica Mk IV female tank to replace the presentation tank that was given to Trowbridge in 1919 in recognition of the town raising £1,000,000 pounds for the war effort, which was an amazing amount for a population of 12,500 at the time. After getting support from our local MP, a lot of research, finding someone to build it and sourcing funding, we had a meeting with Trowbridge town council for permission to put the tank in the town park where the original presentation tank was sited. Well that meeting was something else, with councilours ranting that we were glorifying war and one said that all we wanted to do was "kill a kraut' which was rather embarrassing as there were delegates from the German twin town at the meeting. Needless to say, we didn't get permission to put the tank in the park and all our time and effort wasted, although I did manage to read an original 1916 Mk IV tank operating manual as part of the research. Back to the Guy Martin replica, I have read that the Channel 4 programme about building the MkIV will be shown around Remembrance Day, in the same article it states that the Norfolk Tank Museum is preparing a 1948 Rolls Royce engine and drivetrain to power the tank, could it be a Meteor? Well... A way to have shut off that particular little slice of pan blok federalism courtesy of Trowbridge town Council...would've been to show em a pic or three of the A7V that currently resides in Australia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted November 6, 2017 Share Posted November 6, 2017 7 hours ago, flandersflyer said: Now you'll tell me it'd be neigh on impossible to get this tank into position in or near the square... Anything is possible...if the will exists to make it so... You're right, anything is possible, but in that location there's effectively a natural choke-point on the High Street with a number of substantial brick-built planters restricting access - you can get an artic through, but only really first thing before anyone's about. What's the width of a Mk.IV with its sponsons deployed? Because presumably you'd also like some people (of all ages, including kids & the elderly) there to witness the procession? Well, you'll struggle... Road access is also a nightmare - you'd have to run the tank at least 300m along a fairly narrow congested street, through crowds (who may or not care about the Tank itself), and across a medieval bridge just to get to & from a point where you can park a low-loader (with a tight 90 degree turn at at least one end). All relying on whatever forward vision the driver can get between the track horns (even with CCTV cameras, it would be dodgy). At the end of the day, it's not the downfall of Western Civilization, it's a slightly regrettable but practical decision that the council had very little choice over. I'm sure if the council had bent over backwards to make it happen & spent tax-payers' money removing planters & bollards, closing roads, paying for insurance cover and then paying the coppers their fee, people would have been VERY quick to slag them for that too. Rather than lay all the blame at the door of the council, people might want to ask Channel 4 why they put out a press-release announcing this pie-in-the-sky scheme just two months before the event, when they obviously hadn't secured any form of agreement for it to happen. One might also want to question why the only on-site recce that anyone's aware of comprised Guy Martin & a bunch of feckless media luvvies who couldn't even work out how to set out a square of f*cking string to try to check available clearances prancing up & down the street. You could ask why it wasn't suggested that there was an event featuring the replica Tank on one of the two commons, which could have re-enacted the testing of the real things, instead of trying to attempt the practically impossible on the High Street. If you're that bothered about seeing a First World War Mk.IV in the birthplace of the tank, then pop over to the Lincolnshire Life Museum & look at a real one. I note from the press-release that Channel 4 didn't even mention that one, instead choosing to go to Cambrai to see the wreck of one... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Ashford, in Kent, is a nice place to visit, with the remains of a REME workshop, the remains of a major rail depot, the rusting remains of airfield track from the former Advanced Landing Ground, and the remains of a pleasant town centre. Oh, did I forget to mention the Mk IV female tank? It's real, and it's free to see. Trevor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Yep, and looks very nice too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Armoured Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The Lincoln one is a little bit more original, though, as it never had a sub-station built into its bum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The original plan was to restore the Ashford one to running rather than build a new one. Whilst the local Council were all for it, others, possibly English Heritage were much less keen. It is in a shocking state internally however with much structural failure. It is well looked after but time has taken its toll. The Lincoln tank is, as you say, much better and provided much information in the new build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flandersflyer Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 18 hours ago, 11th Armoured said: You're right, anything is possible, but in that location there's effectively a natural choke-point on the High Street with a number of substantial brick-built planters restricting access - you can get an artic through, but only really first thing before anyone's about. What's the width of a Mk.IV with its sponsons deployed? Because presumably you'd also like some people (of all ages, including kids & the elderly) there to witness the procession? Well, you'll struggle... Road access is also a nightmare - you'd have to run the tank at least 300m along a fairly narrow congested street, through crowds (who may or not care about the Tank itself), and across a medieval bridge just to get to & from a point where you can park a low-loader (with a tight 90 degree turn at at least one end). All relying on whatever forward vision the driver can get between the track horns (even with CCTV cameras, it would be dodgy). At the end of the day, it's not the downfall of Western Civilization, it's a slightly regrettable but practical decision that the council had very little choice over. I'm sure if the council had bent over backwards to make it happen & spent tax-payers' money removing planters & bollards, closing roads, paying for insurance cover and then paying the coppers their fee, people would have been VERY quick to slag them for that too. Rather than lay all the blame at the door of the council, people might want to ask Channel 4 why they put out a press-release announcing this pie-in-the-sky scheme just two months before the event, when they obviously hadn't secured any form of agreement for it to happen. One might also want to question why the only on-site recce that anyone's aware of comprised Guy Martin & a bunch of feckless media luvvies who couldn't even work out how to set out a square of f*cking string to try to check available clearances prancing up & down the street. You could ask why it wasn't suggested that there was an event featuring the replica Tank on one of the two commons, which could have re-enacted the testing of the real things, instead of trying to attempt the practically impossible on the High Street. If you're that bothered about seeing a First World War Mk.IV in the birthplace of the tank, then pop over to the Lincolnshire Life Museum & look at a real one. I note from the press-release that Channel 4 didn't even mention that one, instead choosing to go to Cambrai to see the wreck of one... Do you work for a local authority...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Adrian Barrell said: The original plan was to restore the Ashford one to running rather than build a new one. Whilst the local Council were all for it, others, possibly English Heritage were much less keen. It is in a shocking state internally however with much structural failure. It is well looked after but time has taken its toll. Adrian, I have known the Ashford MkIV tank for nearly 60 years, and as locals we are proud to have the only remaining WW1 tank still standing in the same position as when it was driven there in 1919. It is now considered as a war memorial. The inside was gutted to fit an electricity sub-station in the 1920's, bottom was cut out and rear of hull altered to double doors for access. The tank is listed as an historic monument and I doubt very much that the council "were all for it" regarding restoration. I went inside a few years ago when the council wanted to recreate the rear end to look more authentic. A local fabricator asked me to go with him to assess the job for a quote. In the end another local welding business did the job. It would be criminal to restore it as it would end up a reconstruction as so many of the hull plates are cracked under the stress of rust between riveted joints. So much new metal would have go into it, then all the drive train would have to be constructed. I think the Tank Museum made a wise move of buying the film prop tank, rather than stress out their original one. Since the shelter was erected the tank has kept much drier. One thing I found interesting was that both drive chains are still fitted, it has been said that these chains were removed on parking the presentation tanks so that they could not be driven again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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