robin craig Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'm not saying I'm old but it seems that there has been a gradual change in our hobby. Years ago the more complex and obtuse the machine the more people wanted it and bought them and used them. Nowadays the ranks of the Stalwart owners are dwindling and less and less machines survive. The venerable push me pull you Combat Engineer Tractor is not something that gets bought much and barely makes scrap price if they change hands. Nowadays everyone wants something with a big gun on it. Perhaps there was a time that vehicles were plentiful and the supply has dwindled. Perhaps fuel costs and trucking to events has killed it. Perhaps i'm just loosing it R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rosie Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think people are feeling the pinch at the moment so their money is being spent on other things which are deemed more important. However I don't think the interest has gone, ok we are biased but our 2 boys will always be interested and hopefully they will buy vehicles of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Paladin Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Methinks not. Of course, I'm sort of entering the hobby (again) and that presents something of a bias. The CG Ranger/Peacekeeper at work kept me somewhat involved in the realm. Decent project vehicles are much less available than a few years ago and spares are not as abundant. Prices on nice condition MVs have about doubled in the US in just the last few years – far ahead of the rate of inflation. I think the decreases in availability and increases in cost are having a dampening effect. As Rosie pointed out, many families are feeling the pinch of higher costs while wages are at best 'flat'. At least here in the US, I think its fair to say that political and economic uncertainties are LARGE at this point. These things are having an effect on many of the more expensive hobbies - just a few opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 .303fan Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 with disability, military landies , civvy landies a disabled wife i have plenty to do. big guns ain't on my wish list, but a AEC Militant is. i like big stuff i can drive, enjoy and help friends with. my biggest issue is language barrier and getting sorted after my emigration in to the uk. fuel prices do affect what i can do, but if i am honest.... it won't stop me completely. i save up for war and peace, parts and pieces and try to have time for work on vehicles. cheers, Arjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 griff66 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 if u go to various shows in the uk w&p headcorn over lord etc the hobby certainly is not dying out complete opposite in fact i only came into hobby in my mid 40,s the Green addiction can hit at any age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tony B Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The thing abut the older vehicles is, they 'aint building anymore! Even the dear old Series 3 Landy, the starting block for many are getting rare. The result is less about ,prices go up. Like off road competion, 25 years ago you could drive the vehicle to an event and have some fun, and even come home with a prize. A couple of days ago I saw a Land Rover 90 which had had £100,000 spent on it! And was being scrapped as it was non competive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Big ray Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Things will probably stagnate a little due to the general economic climate and rapidly increasing prices, making it difficult to attract younger people into the hobby. I am sure that the interest remains very strong, but if you have young children and a mortgage its going to be difficult to get involved on a vehicle level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 paulbrook Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I think this question needs to be considered in the wider context of the classic vehicle and related technology movement. For the record the entire movement, of which military vehicles are an important part, is a GBP 4Bn "industry" and whilst like any other section of the economy is subject to some ebbs and flows, particularly when times are tight, my understanding is that it continues to grow strongly. That said and whilst one should not generalise from the specific the failure of the normal financial institutions have caused some at least to say "to heck with it - I might as well have a................................. (insert vehicle of choice)". I have heard that sentiment expressed many times over the last few years. One consequence of this though is that prices of some vehicles and equipments have risen strongly, which may not be such a good thing as it begins to distort the general trends and overall affordability of this as a hobby. The other thing to bear in mind is that what we old folks think is old isn't what the young folks coming into the hobby think is old. Back in the 70s wartime stuff seemed ancient to me as a youngster, but was really only the same as a 1970s vehicle is now. Just look at the amount of money involved in early Volvo and Scania trucks, or Kawasaki Z900s, or Audi Quattro (s). So the hobby is bound to change. And we should be thankful that it does - otherwise it will stagnate. For what it is worth though I am strongly of the view that we older folks need to encourage youngsters taking up the hobby, and we need to continue to build a "support" network of parts suppliers, specialists and so on, handing down knowledge and skill as best we can. Edited October 31, 2013 by paulbrook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Jack Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I agree with all of the above and would add this fact - the price of all MV's has gone through the roof. This is market forces at work - supply and demand dictates that so with that in mind, the hobby is looking great. We have to start to worry when prices of Jeeps fall below £10,000. I think we would have the equivalent of our own 'stock market crash'. I think with 70th anniversary of D-Day next year and the centenary of the WWI then we should expect a massive peak in interest of our history which will then take it on for the next 5 years. This has happened after every major anniversary and funny enough after every successful Hollywood blockbuster WWII film Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 JEMIMA Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I wouldnt say dying out,but i would say its evolving ! 15 or so years ago a military show was just rows of neatly parked vehicles on display - the odd driver wearing some uniform but that was about it,the public didnt really mix with the owners of the vehicles,they didnt ask many questions ... Now more and more vehicles are displaying diahramas and equipemnt.....and personally i think this is a great thing ! Walking past a jeep,another jeep,a jeep with a wire cutter,another jeep etc,All ok if you liked jeeps (other MV's are available!) but for many it was getting very much same old/same old - now there are displays and things to look at,the public get more value from a visit to a show as they learn more about the equipment and lives of those who drove or worked with the vehicles they are looking at.Owners take a pride in their vehicles,their kit and their knowladge of thier display....They park in random fashion and show sites are much more appealing on the eye than the military car -parks they resembled in the past... For many now this is the first foot into the MV world - they start collecting kit / equipment and work towards a vehicle or buddy up with a vehicle owner to compliment each others displays. Yes of course the cost of our hobby has increased - but so has everything,and so has the ease of restorations - the internet has made the world of spares and advice shrink and we no longer rely on auto jumbles and yearly shows to search or collect that missing part so needed. I think the hobby is in a better place today than it has ever been in the 26 years ive been participating.....Facilities on tours and show sites have improved,camping equipemnt has got lighter and more practicle,mobile phones and the internet have opened our world up to members of the public and other like-minded enthusiasts,its enabled us all to reseach our vehicles and equipment like we never could before.......Sorry to disagree - but as ive said - i think its better now than its ever been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tony B Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 And then>>>>>> You get some muppet who has spent a couple of hours playing 'Call of Duty' and think they know it all. :yawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Cold_War_Collection Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 And then>>>>>> You get some muppet who has spent a couple of hours playing 'Call of Duty' and think they know it all. :yawn: Some very thoughtful comments here. Yes, its changing, some things for the better, some, not so much. Youth participation is an area that we should be looking at, as there is so much for Youth to do today, if we are to foster interest, then its up to us really to engage them so thay know we exist. I work on things other than old MV's, such as Classic cars and Vintage Motorcycles, and I can tell you that to many of us, a 1975 Honda CB 750, well, thats just an old cheep bike, right? well, not anymore, parts and restoration can run into costs you can't imagine. Its an example of the costs of rebuiling old machiney. Price out a Restored Sherman? even a post war E 8 version will set you back more than a bit, and we all know that life is getting expensive, while wages stay, well, flat. The nice thing about what we do, is that there is so much choice in vehicles, some expensive, some not, so most of us can find a place. Whats important for us, is that we see when someone is new, or is struggling to present what they can afford to do, we encourage them. Their rig might not be perfect, but lets be helpful and not judge to harshly so that they may be encouraged to stay in this hobby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Jack Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I wouldnt say dying out,but i would say its evolving !15 or so years ago a military show was just rows of neatly parked vehicles on display - the odd driver wearing some uniform but that was about it,the public didnt really mix with the owners of the vehicles,they didnt ask many questions ... Now more and more vehicles are displaying diahramas and equipemnt.....and personally i think this is a great thing ! Walking past a jeep,another jeep,a jeep with a wire cutter,another jeep etc,All ok if you liked jeeps (other MV's are available!) but for many it was getting very much same old/same old - now there are displays and things to look at,the public get more value from a visit to a show as they learn more about the equipment and lives of those who drove or worked with the vehicles they are looking at.Owners take a pride in their vehicles,their kit and their knowladge of thier display....They park in random fashion and show sites are much more appealing on the eye than the military car -parks they resembled in the past... For many now this is the first foot into the MV world - they start collecting kit / equipment and work towards a vehicle or buddy up with a vehicle owner to compliment each others displays. Yes of course the cost of our hobby has increased - but so has everything,and so has the ease of restorations - the internet has made the world of spares and advice shrink and we no longer rely on auto jumbles and yearly shows to search or collect that missing part so needed. I think the hobby is in a better place today than it has ever been in the 26 years ive been participating.....Facilities on tours and show sites have improved,camping equipemnt has got lighter and more practicle,mobile phones and the internet have opened our world up to members of the public and other like-minded enthusiasts,its enabled us all to reseach our vehicles and equipment like we never could before.......Sorry to disagree - but as ive said - i think its better now than its ever been. That's makes fantastic reading and 100% agree with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Tony B Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I do spend a lot of time talking to and explaining things to young people. As has been said, we aren't getting any younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 fesm_ndt Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The two things I see changing is: - Environmentalist demonizing everything which really annoys me given a restored vehicle has no carbon footprint as it is still be used far after a plastic Tupperware box with wheels. Plus said person often has the latest phone gadgets that they change every 6 months which is a far higher carbon footprint or waste........ yep I'm ranting. - The other thing I find interesting is a lot of people have zero skills, in a mechanical sense. This is not a stop to the hobby just a change to having more work done by others. Case in point I was in a panel shop this week where the guy is restring an E type Jag, the values of these have jumped up as they are in the 50th anniversary. Said restorer has an open cheque book virtually to do the restoration and the owner has no interest until its complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Gerry275 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Interesting- I would say evolving. I used to belong to the AVO club (Ford Escort Mk1's built for motorsport) for 26 years, that club changed and evolved as committee members changed- and big money moved in. I purchased my GPW as I always wanted one and wanted it original- having found it was a British jeep I now search for info to return it to her service days. I for one think its a fantastic movement and met some great people at W&P and other shows. It is also a great family hobby. I agree that displays of similar period vehicles look great and personally prefer it to Rows of vehicles.:cool2: As for the green "BUG" I am still fighting the NEED for a GMC or Chev. But it is a battle, only held back by the need to Complete the Restoration of my Farmall BN tractor (another American built machine built in Nov '41). We know we will be showing next yr.:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Wolfy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Fuel costs have killed owning a large vehicle for me forever sad but there you are. Happy with smaller vehicles though and easier to manage at a residential property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 listerdiesel Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 In my main interest/hobby. stationary engines, there is much the same discussion, with older guys dropping the size of their display engines as they cannot manage them any more, and while we do have youngsters joining the ranks, they cannot afford or handle the larger engines. We still get out to shows with our engines, and still enjoy them, but it is noticeable how many don't turn up like they used to. I'd love a Scammell Explorer, but nowhere to park it up safely, so have to be content with our show engines for now. The internet has made a huge difference to all mechanically-orientated hobbies, with online information being available at the press of a key, much as has been said previously. The top gas engine and tractor show in the USA has seen falling numbers for the past two years, we went to one earlier this year in Tulare CA and the numbers were much reduced from our previous visits in 2005 and 2008. I don't think that the interest has waned, but folks don't have the cash to take some of the larger and thirstier vehicles out to shows now. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Lewis Garner Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I wouldn't say it's dying out by any means, I know many young classic car owners but the military hobby has always remained a bit of an obscurity to them. Personally I would say not enough effort is made to 'get the message out there' but in a way having a 'closed shop' also has its advantages. I have a couple of classics and look after dad's military vehicles, as much as I'd love something like a GMC you have to remember prices have tripled in the 10 years or so we've been in the hobby. Years ago you could get a nice runner and driver for £3500 whereas now that figure might get you a wreck. Insurance is another consideration with most of the classic insurers not willing to even consider you until the age of 25. I am 20 and insurance on my 1970s Land Rover is nearly £700, that's an awful lot for a weekend toy, especially whilst on an apprenticeship wage. As has already been said 90% of youngsters now know absolutely nothing about mechanics, it was all good and well when you had to 'tinker' with your car or motorbike on a daily basis to keep it in fine fettle, modern cars are not so now. From early on I have always been interested in how things work, dad has helped me here and there to learn things but crucially it is about having a go yourself as that is the best way to learn. It can be daunting at first but after all the majority of military vehicles are big, simple engineering and relatively easy to fix. Three years ago I wouldn't have even dreamt of changing the engine in our CVRT, now it's easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 John Comber Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Some very good reading of your thoughts and experiences, having boots in a variety of vehicle related hobbies , the question is raised everywhere , and more so ,is it dying because new blood is not interested or allowed an insight ? it's easy for those of us with vehicles to encourage our families, and I think generally if children are weaned off SMA and baby oil straight to EP 90 they will catch the bug:laugh: . Some clubs are offering apprenticeships to children to get involved so the future of their hobby is just not down to the family's who can pass their equipment onto the next generation, that should be applauded and thought about in the MV movement, even if it's inviting an interested nipper to climb aboard behind the wheel or sticks, those experiences will stay with them for years especially if they are as I was and mesmerised by all machinery, that is all it might take to catch another future recruit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nightmare13 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I wouldnt say its a dieing hobby.. Im quite new to the hobby and I can openly admit that I am probably the youngest member in my region, most the guys my age are more interested in getting drunk and get lucky down the local pub, where im happier having a beer with the oldies and hopefully grtting a ride on a military vehicle Given the choice of owning a jeep or say a morris commercial I wouldn't say that the morris uses THAT much more fuel to running a jeep.. its mostly storing the vehicles and working on them, when I came into the hobby I wanted a stolly, which ive come to realize that I will need seriois equipment and lifting gear, 10 years ago people had common sense aswell... I had a driving test for my trailer a few days ago and the assessor didnt understand what double de clutching was.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Vulture Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Good thread guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 robin craig Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 I thought we got some good responses from me letting off steam and getting uppity. Must do that again. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 alixcompo Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Very interesting thread. In my own very limited way I have come to find that once vehicles achieve 'monetary worth' then people stop throwing away the vital spares that only have scrap value otherwise. With the internet it seems that it you can be patient and hold your nerve then that elusive part will surface eventually. Just had 2 items of 'Unobtainium' turn up in a week after looking/advertising for two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 sturgeon Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I'm pretty new to the hobby and didn't even knew it existed 5 years ago. Now I'm fully immersed into the hobby and learning every step of the way. It's not a cheap hobby but fun. The main issues are cost and storage, also spares for certain vehicles are drying up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 nz2 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This is a dying hobby as we all must die at some point. However I have enough projects on hand to see me through a reincarnation or two! As for the concept of encouraging others to join this activity it is no different to so many other leisure time activities. It is the personal allocation of time and funding to participate at a level that suits a follower. Shows and events are good to participate in( with any sort of transport theme), it is getting those that show an interest to take the next step and join that is the hurdle. Family members tend to follow the habit, bringing in strangers to an activity becomes more difficult. I was recently at an event where we took people for rides on traction engines and steam rollers and allowed them to steer the roller about the paddock. The joy of being able to activity try some thing like that out of the ordinary was so evident by the smile on their faces. Grandparents, parents and children all experienced the chance to steer about the route and throw firewood in to the firebox. The splattering of oil on their clothing was seen as a souvenir of their day. It will be interesting to see if membership numbers lift. Static displays have limitations as has been expressed by others. The problems associated with maintaining an active membership in not confined to the UK, it is also relevant to us on the other side of the world. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
robin craig
I'm not saying I'm old but it seems that there has been a gradual change in our hobby.
Years ago the more complex and obtuse the machine the more people wanted it and bought them and used them.
Nowadays the ranks of the Stalwart owners are dwindling and less and less machines survive.
The venerable push me pull you Combat Engineer Tractor is not something that gets bought much and barely makes scrap price if they change hands.
Nowadays everyone wants something with a big gun on it.
Perhaps there was a time that vehicles were plentiful and the supply has dwindled. Perhaps fuel costs and trucking to events has killed it.
Perhaps i'm just loosing it
R
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