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nz2 last won the day on June 16 2020

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    New Zealand
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    Preserving the past

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  1. The hubs of the rear axles have a design pattern more like a Dennis. Also similar where some American trucks of WW1. Overall the chassis appears to have been extensively modified and strengthened, hiding features that could identify it. The front tyre appears to be 24 inch so latter 1920's. The radiator is too deep for a Thornycroft.
  2. Tomo T comments regards these being a prototype is always a fair point. The build register shows the use of the M4 engine being available from July 1913, however it appears the L4 engine continued to be more popular by demand. Well at least more were supplied in lorries passing out of the factory. The point of sending them to the Colonies also raises issues, for many are listed as being supplied to the home market. Tozer, Kemsley and Fisher were exporting agents also sending products from many other different manufactures all about the world. Although their name appears regularly on the dispatch column there is no indication as to where these vehicles went to. To make things a little easier for me in New Zealand, a local firm of A. Hatrick & Co. began importing Thornycrofts, placing their first order on 30-8-1912. To confuse the issue Hattrick's also had an office in Sydney, and there are still Thornycroft's in Australia with a Hatrick agency name plate. No records are known to have survived from the Hatrick companies covering the imported chassis numbers. From the Thornycroft production records the Hatrick name appears fifty five times to April 1915, the last five being ordered after the commencement of hostilities. Eleven different models are recorded as been delivered. These early J models did have their problems in France during the early months of The Great War with the major repair depots making changes to the vehicle parts. Apparently a replacement rear axle casing was designed and cast in France by the depot, to replace the five piece diff housing as used on these early J's. This then became the standard when the J model was repowered to the M4 engine in August 1915. From Steve's photos we can see the gearbox was another item that received a dramatic change in form, along with the position of the fuel tank. Other changes to the Subsidy wagon included the steering track rod being moved to behind the axle, the front wheels became larger and the front spring hangers were moved from the front to the rear end of the springs. Steve in providing these photos and passing on more data by email has greatly assisted in allowing the similar J here to progress further towards restoration, for now there is another one to compare with. Doug
  3. What is the history of this? Any idea what vehicle it was on? Doug
  4. I can use the word same so many times when comparing those photos, except for the circular gearbox which I don't have. Doug
  5. Engine dated leaving the factory 28/1/1914 in a J model.
  6. Delighted to see another early Thornycroft of the same pattern as one I have. Small diameter front wheels, track rod to the front, spring hangers to the front, raised chassis cross members over the dif, and a five piece dif housing. It has been twenty plus years of waiting!
  7. We have Cubs here so that would fit in nicely to give a better understanding of what should have been there. It is most probable jets have been changed over its working life. Can you inquire as to the costs in mailing to New Zealand. Doug
  8. Colin; Can you post some photos of the other Belsize chassis so we have something to compare with. In particular the spring hanger mounts, front of the chassis and any other points of noticeable difference. As such this would allow people to identify any similar chassis when located. I am one who is building up a data base of such photos of rarer lorries. Doug
  9. nz2

    Karrier WDS

    From the Thornycroft production records it is interesting to read through and note the increasing supply of lorries to the civilian market prior to the end of the war. New vehicles during war time are listed as being supplied to essential industries along with the batches to the War Office, but not many . Over that last six months or thereabouts the ratio of vehicles available steadily increases to the civilian market to the point of almost total civilian come August 1918. This is from my observation taken from the Thornycroft records. Perhaps other manufacturers were involved likewise. Doug
  10. The chassis section has been identified through another website as being from a Service truck made in the USA. The dumb irons and rear spring mounts match. However there is still the question if those parts were only ever used by Service or were they purchased in parts, available also to other assemblers of vehicles. Doug
  11. Thanks Mike. Can you photograph your ones to compare.
  12. Searched that with no luck. A small diameter wheel with 6 spokes. Also searched for foundries with the name Fire and TL. No joy. Hence the questioning now to others.
  13. part 4 The wheels attached to blacksmithed axle are 720mm across OD. Cast marks are TL and the word FIRE. So far any research has not linked these marks to any maker. The pattern of the flanges about and between the spokes top and bottom are similar to Commer Car but all photos seen to date show 8 spokes where as this set has only 6 spokes. One wheel is positioned about the wrong way on the stub axle, hence the different views. What has come from previous uses makes this confusing, but the individual items separately are interesting, and confusing to identify. Doug
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