Adrian Barrell Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 Surely someone must of told him where to land or put a marker out for him to land in exactly to right spot? suppose we will just have to wait for the CAA report to find out the full story. I doubt one will be published. It's not an AAIB investigation so it's only likely to be known about by those involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 I doubt one will be published. It's not an AAIB investigation so it's only likely to be known about by those involved. Why would the AAIB not be investigating? From the AAIB's website.. The purpose of the AAIB is: "To improve aviation safety by determining the causes of air accidents and serious incidents and making safety recommendations intended to prevent recurrence" ...It is not to apportion blame or liability. Chief Inspector & Definition of a Serious Incident "Serious Incident" means an incident involving circumstances indicating that an accident nearly occurred. The incidents listed below are typical examples of serious incidents. The list is not exhaustive and only serves as a guide to the definition of 'serious incident'. - A near collision requiring an avoidance manoeuvre or when an avoiding manoeuvre would have been appropriate to avoid a collision or an unsafe situation. - Controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) only marginally avoided. - An aborted take-off on a closed or engaged runway, or a take-off from such a runway with marginal separation from obstacle(s). - A landing or attempted landing on a closed or engaged runway. - Gross failure to achieve predicted performance during take-off or initial climb. - All fires and smoke in the passenger compartment or in cargo compartments, or engine fires, even though such fires are extinguished with extinguishing agents. - Any events which require the emergency use of oxygen by the flight crew. - Aircraft structural failure or engine disintegration which is not classified as an accident. - Multiple malfunctions of one or more aircraft systems that seriously affect the operation of the aircraft. - Any case of flight crew incapacitation in flight. - Any fuel state which would require the declaration of an emergency by the pilot. - Take-off or landing incidents, such as undershooting, overrunning or running off the sides of runways. - System failures, weather phenomena, operation outside the approved flight envelope or other occurrences which could have caused difficulties controlling the aircraft. - Failure of more than one system in a redundancy system which is mandatory for flight guidance and navigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Because I suspect the CAA will gleefully investigate this themselves. They may involve the AAIB, especially if there is a suspicion that the aircraft failed to perform as expected but we will have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Reguardless of the obvious H&S stuff, does anyone know why he lost so much power? I was wondering if it was of the amount of dust that he kicked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 (edited) Reguardless of the obvious H&S stuff, does anyone know why he lost so much power? I was wondering if it was of the amount of dust that he kicked up? It started its engine, I heard the engine and blades spin. Then I did'n't hear the engine just rotors. He restarted and did a try to get airborne by flying up and forward a bit. He landed and tried again . He got airborne between the gate and flew over the dirtroad at very low altitude and then got caught in the dustcloud. It looked as if he had more speed than lift at first, than less speed to get lift (dustcloud) and more speed and less lift again (to get out of the dust?)which seemed it to loose altitude.. I thought he was fooling around intentionally untill plywood getting blown up from the ground and launched by the downdraft. Edited August 19, 2010 by Enigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 Thanks mate. Sounds like he made a pigs ear of it all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted August 19, 2010 Share Posted August 19, 2010 sounds like he needs more lessons :nut: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Sounds like he needs a bike! Or better still walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oily Posted August 20, 2010 Share Posted August 20, 2010 Reguardless of the obvious H&S stuff, does anyone know why he lost so much power? I was wondering if it was of the amount of dust that he kicked up?.....I managed to 'stumble upon', a you tube video of his 'copter, taken I think after it's 'restoration'...... and whilst running it up he switched magnetos, and the engine cut out.... so maybe he has ignition problems...... I'll try and relocate the video and post a link.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim gray Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Reguardless of the obvious H&S stuff, does anyone know why he lost so much power? I was wondering if it was of the amount of dust that he kicked up? Helicopters when taking off have the option of virtically or rolling take off if possible with availaiable space and obviously wheeled types. When going from hover to forward motion a period of transition takes place when the aircraft moves forward of the cushion of air beneath. This transition means a loss of altitude that you can obviously compensate for with power ( if you have it) The other problems with choppers is temperature of air and humidity, alters the air density, atlers the lift capacity ( a problem encountered mainly i believe at altidude and hot humid climates as the yanks found in Vietnam) As its an old aircraft with limited power and the beltring weather was nicely hot quite possibly a combination of power , temp, and the dust would have clobbered him. As stated previously, the report if published will comment on all of the factors associated with the event, inclusive of flying hours, maintanance, weather et al Regards Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesm_ndt Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Helicopters when taking off have the option of virtically or rolling take off if possible with availaiable space and obviously wheeled types. When going from hover to forward motion a period of transition takes place when the aircraft moves forward of the cushion of air beneath.This transition means a loss of altitude that you can obviously compensate for with power ( if you have it) Regards Tim I dont want to comment on the incident as like people said it will come out in the official investigation Transitional lift errors above is a very common occurance. When just of the ground you have the air cushion under you (ground effect), when you go higher or in any direction were the rotor is tilted you lose this cushion and a significant amount of lift. At that point you need more power and room. Thats why you see movies of helicopters leaving building tops and they fall over ie they left their ground effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Hi all. I think the main point is being missed - Regardless if the aircraft had a malfunction or not - It was a very stupid and irresponsible thing to attempt any type of manoeuvre with an aircraft in such close proximately to people and structures. It does clearly state in aviation law - a landing and take off area must be fit for purpose unless an aircraft is forced into an emergency landing. I suspect the pilot - who is probably quite experienced - wishes he had not been so foolish and will ultimately pay a heavy price for his actions. When you are a pilot in charge of an aircraft - you have full responsibility of the aircraft and anything it may come into contact with. Markheliops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Hi all. It does clearly state in aviation law - a landing and take off area must be fit for purpose unless an aircraft is forced into an emergency landing. Markheliops Even then you must not put yourself in a position where you cannot land clear of obstructions in the event of an engine failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 82 Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 A brief comment. I have taken my son and a couple of his friends to W&P for several years and am really dissappointed just how ineffective the show team there were at enforcing what must surely be one of the biggest safety breaches in recent shows. Its one thing to put your own life at risk (as happened previously), yet quite another to put many others in harms way. As a health and safety risk assessor, I know only too well how dim a view the authorities would take on a repeat of such a lapse - which would ultimately force considerably tighter H&S and spoil the enjoyment of 1000`s. Come on guys, I think most folks would support you taking a strong line on such behaviour. Well, thats my pennies worth Steve 82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 (edited) A brief comment. I have taken my son and a couple of his friends to W&P for several years and am really dissappointed just how ineffective the show team there were at enforcing what must surely be one of the biggest safety breaches in recent shows. Its one thing to put your own life at risk (as happened previously), yet quite another to put many others in harms way. Steve 82 This incident has already been discussed at length months ago, Steve read the rest of the thread before you blame the show officials. It would appear the pilot decided to attempt to take off without informing officials Edited December 8, 2010 by Nick Johns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 I agree Nick, I don't think anyone in authority at W&P had any idea that this was going to happen. I also think that Greg (i/c Living History) and his staff did a superb job collating a list of witnesses and at the same time pacifying a large number of very angry and distressed people! I would imagine the CAA investigation must be almost complete by now and that Rolling Thunder will have put this behind them and started planning W&P 2011 with their usual 'surprise' element! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 82 Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Nick , Peter & the W&P Team, Upon reflection, my comment was somewhat harsh and for that I appologise to the W&P team. Am sure they were as caught out by the final flight of the helicopter - as was everyone else. However, I should have telephoned Mr Cadman to discuss my concerns directly and will do so soon. Sincerely, Steve 82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Steve, By all means call Rex, but I'm not sure what you aim to achieve at this late point. I have no doubt that HSE have already been in touch with all the relevent parties and appropriate action is underway. What would be more useful would be to find out what the process of events/decisions that lead up to the incident were and what action has/will been taken. Do the results of civil air incidents become public after decisions are made? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Do the results of civil air incidents become public after decisions are made? If it results in an AAIB investigation and I'm not convinced it will, then yes, the report will be published. Any action taken by the CAA is a different thing and may be reported in a different way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 (edited) What would be more useful would be to find out what the process of events/decisions that lead up to the incident were and what action has/will been taken. Do the results of civil air incidents become public after decisions are made? If the AAIB are investigating the results will eventually appear here http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins.cfm Unless they changed their minds they are not investigating the incident.. Email received in August.. Thank you for your email. I can confirm the AAIB are not investigating this incident and so we will not be producing a report. Kind regards Miss Vickie Marsh Inspector Support Unit Manager Air Accident Investigation Branch Farnborough House Berkshire Copse Road Aldershot Hampshire GU11 2HH Tel: 01252 510300 Website: www.aaib.gov.uk ******************************************* This doesn't mean the CAA are not investigating it though, I never got a reply from them?? I see the pilot, Glynn Williams, won a Trophy at the W&P Show :nut: Edited December 14, 2010 by Marmite!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) As I suspected. Edited December 14, 2010 by Adrian Barrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Any action taken by the CAA is a different thing and may be reported in a different way. The CAA are investigating, I made a FOI request & received the following, see attached pdf.. CAA ReplyLetter.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topdog Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I agree with Mark Heliops. The pilot has probably not heard the last of this. If he appears next year driving a truck, then no-one will be surprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I agree with Mark Heliops. The pilot has probably not heard the last of this. Looks like it Appropriate CAA action is to be taken as a result of this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustmeimamechanic Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 "If he appears next year driving a truck, then no-one will be surprised " Perhaps a pushbike would be safer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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