Great War truck Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 (edited) Here is a theoretical question. Assume that you have an incredibly rare or unusual vehicle which has been fully restored and returned to running condition. A museum then looks to purchase that vehicle. However, once purchased the vehicle will go into a nice climate controlled hall and will be a star attraction. The down side is that the vehicle will never turn a wheel ever again and will remain forever static. Would you resist selling the vehicle to the museum. Discuss Tim (too) Edited September 16, 2009 by Great War truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Surely a better bet would be to loan it to them, on the understanding you can take it out and use it as and when you like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willyslancs Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 yes i probably would resist selling (just my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Tim, If it was that rare, and I loaned it to a museum, it would be on the understanding that if it was ever wished to start or demonstrate then only I would undertake this.........I'm assuming we are talking WW1 era vehicles, where you have intimate knowledge of their workings, unless you trained a staff member to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Hmmm, best would be for the museum to drive it once in a while, a bit like the Bovvie tiger. But would I sell? No idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The museum should not buy but hire it for say the next 30 years on the assumption that they will look after it and this includes moving it to keep it working as a live machine... I would resist selling to them if I could, but thats because i dont need the money, if you do then its a mute point....sell it to some other collector who will use it... although in all honesty its not worth the worry, once its gone its gone, let others worry about it, it is after all only a machine...no matter how rare... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 , it is after all only a machine...no matter how rare... Disagree with that.. if you put a good part of yourself into it, it becomes more that just a machine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I've heard some horror stories about some museum vehicles being welded up and cut about to fit displays in the past. I believe in living motorised history. While there are people who can make things run and the resources to do it, then static is not my cuppa. I am a spannernumpty so I bow to the brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 If it really was that rare, then I would consider selling to a museum once I had enjoyed it for a bit. With the advent of forums like this and Youtube a very rare vehicle could be recorded on the move for posterity, with even a live interview with the driver to convey the driving experience before being "plinthed". If a great deal of my life had gone into restoring it, then I would take the offer to see it displayed and looked after in a climate controlled environment that I could not (currently) offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 If I'd put the sweat and effort into restoring something like that, MY TOY!! And I'LL play with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yes, some very good points there. I am thinking particularly of the WW1 vehicles at Duxford. They have loveley restored exampled of FWD, Thornycroft and Fiat yet they never move. Is that because there is no interest with the volunteers or are they considered to be too precious to ever move again? Sad really when all that work has gone into making them run, that they dont. If we were to ever lend a vehicle to a museum (as a friend does to free up space in his shed for something else) I would not be happy with anybody we didnt know doing anything to it (especially driving). But when Steve and I are dead and gone I cant imagine my girls showing much enthusiasm to take them out (i am working on this though) what happens to the trucks then? Sold to a private collector who might lock it away from all eyes (like many other WW1 trucks in the UK), or to someone else who might stuff the engine through racing it (which has happened to two WW1 trucks i can think of in recent years), or to a museum who will keep it safe but never run it? I think interviewing potential buyers would be the only option to see that they are qualified enough to keep it. Tim (too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 If they were bits of china or paintings there would be hundreds of the chattering classes frothing over there upkeep and demanding they are retained in perfect condition. Your right Tim, what's the use of a vehicle if it doesent move? It might as well be a shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 This is a question that had me thinking hard a few years ago. My Sherman is pretty rare as Shermans go being one of only a handfull of M4A4s in running condition with the correct engine and one of only three 'standard' 75mm gun tanks of the type. My Cromwell is even rarer, a genuine 1RTR Normandy veteran, though still to be restored. When I aquired them, prices were nowhere near what they are now and I seriously considered leaving them in my will to an organisation rather then them being sold off to the highest bidder and disappearing abroard. Bovington do not have a standard Sherman 75mm gun tank as used in large numbers by the British Army neither do they have an exhibit with a British NW Europe combat history. The thing is, now that The Tank Museum have to cater to the masses for their survival, I'm sure the sherman in particular would be used for the mobility displays until it broke and would then be shoved in the back of the reserve collection building. This is in no way a critisism of The Tank Museum, just an observation. However, now I have a daughter and with WW2 tanks making good(!) money, they would have to be sold and if that is a result of my demise, I can't be worrying about where they go or what happens to them! In the meantime, I have no intention of selling them and continue to enjoy them to the full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think the real question is Would you sell your vehicle? As you don't really have any control over what happens to your vehicle once it passes out of your hands, buyers will tell you what you want to hear when they're reaching for their wallet, but beyond that it's theirs to do with as they please regardless of historical importance/work done... Lets face it your own vehicle is yours... (except that it isn't... it's probably had umpteen previous owners in the case of vintage stuff, each of whom had their own idea of what should be done with it/to it). The best we can be is carefull custodians of this stuff... and once fuel supplies dry up they'll all wind up static anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 and once fuel supplies dry up they'll all wind up static anyway True..... Mind you, I live on top of a hill, well what passes for a hill in Suffolk so at least when that happens I can have one last run to the bottom. Weeeee! :yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodge Deep Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 True..... Mind you, I live on top of a hill, well what passes for a hill in Suffolk so at least when that happens I can have one last run to the bottom. Weeeee! :yay: So there'll be a permanent memorial to the Sherman Tank at... Well, wherever it comes to a standstill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 I want to be there to watch that....I think people should see these machines and have some memory of what the last war was like...never let us forget what those boys went through for our supposed freedom....this is the real statement that i think you are trying to convey...the machine is after all just that. Its what it did for our race that is really important. Oil and PETROL will never run out, its a complete fallacy, when it is so expensive to extract and most other forms of transport are electric only a few slected classic vehicles will run on petrol produced specially for them. Made either artificially or from the remaining reserves.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Disagree with that.. if you put a good part of yourself into it, it becomes more that just a machine... Hmm, these are important machines becuase of the part they played in human history, not the fact that they are the pride and joy of the restorer...thats mostly just a personal issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastblock Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Sell it to a museum that will run it. I love the Shuttleworth collection for that reason; they have several unique and priceless aircraft and vehicles in the collection but that does not stop them from using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 A very real question to me. I restored my 1916 Albion 3 tonner back in the 70's and early 80's. More than 5000 hours went into restoring a very, very rare WW1 vehicle.In Feburary 2002 I was asked by the Australian War Memorial to loan my Albion to them for a few years. It turned out to be 3 1/2 years. During that time I took it out for one outing. At the end of that loan period, my Albion was then taken to the Bandiana Military Museum near Wodonga. It is on extended loan there at the moment. Whilst it has been at Bandiana, I have taken it out twice. The last time was this past March for the Corowa Swim-In. I really enjoy knowing that there are many, many people looking at my truck whilst it is in the museum. BUT, Boy do I miss the old girl not being at home! Two weeks ago, the Bandiana Museum rang and asked me to sell them my Albion. Good money is on offer. I have two sons, both are interested in my vehicles and I have always said the the Albion is to go to me second son. (The first born gets a different vehicle.) My answer to the museum is that the Albion will go to my son as promised, but if he needs or wants to sell it, then the Bandiana Military Museum has to have first offer. Bandiana do take their vehicles out into the public arena so I'm sure that it will get the occassional outing. Until then. It is still my pride and joy. Regards Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver99 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Big question, will A museum buy your vehicle. Per se they don't have spare cash for vehicles, always relying on donations. Plus whose to say the next curator/director thinks it isn't part of the collection policy and out it goes. Musems aren't the be all and end all of great conservation and restoration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver99 Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 There is also a slight shift in general museums policy. It was always considered very naughty to actively sell off artefacts and a museum was frowned upon for doing so. Or even have their status downgraded. But now the MLA is having to rethink this policy as more and more cash strapped museums are having to sell off items to keep the place open. Or move stuff out as storage is at maximum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 As someone who is in mid process on a trade with a well known Museum, let me tell you its an awkward process. They cant give me cash for what I have to offer and they have offered something that I could potentially sell, which works for me. I have been on this gig for nearly six months so far, a few emails and a few phone calls but no actually action as yet. I'm hopefully that it will all conclude in due course but boy oh boy they move at such a glacial pace I may be a very old man by the time it is consumated. R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustmeimamechanic Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 My tuppence worth....... any mechanical object not running and being driven / flown or whatever is not realy a representation of that vehicle - a picture of a spitfire conveys much the same image as a static one - fire up the merlin and its a different ball game - you then have the sight , sound and smell of the aircraft - same for vehicles .. the smell of the hot engine and fuel , the heat experianced driving it and the sound it makes as well as the effort involved in simply steering it all adds much more to the vehicle than a static exhibit can ever give , not to mention an understanding of how the young drivers must have felt as they drove that vehicle for real into action with bullets coming at them and often being scared almost silly. Having been lucky enough to have driven many different tyres of vehicle I don't think one of them was actualy how I imagined it would be. A tank for example sounds very different inside than to those watching from the side of an arena.... Bovvys tiger if it was a non runner is little more than a collection of parts in the shape of a tiger.. only when running is it alive. I will never be lucky enough to own any rare or desireable vehicle but if i did it would certainly aways be run and driven as often as poss to keep it alive even if that means that eventualy it wears out... hopefully by then technology will allow new parts to be produced to repair and rebuild it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.Rimmer Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Sorry Trustmeimamechanic but to some extent I disagree. A vehicle-be it an aircraft,tank,truck or ship is an object just like any other and while maintaining it in running order might be better mechanically it often does not help to preserve the rest of the object. Take the LRDG Chevrolet at IWM Lambeth or Corsair KD431 at the Fleet Air Arm Museum as examples of a truck and aircraft which if restored to working order would loose much of their originality and history in the process. I do agree that having a vehicle in running order is often very evocative,but it is not the be all and end all of preserving a vehicle,a non-running truck or aircraft in original condition,perhaps still bearing the scars of war,can be just as evocative-if not more so. To answer GWT's original question,Yes I would consider selling(or maybe donating)a vehicle to a museum but it would depend on the museum in question as some(in the case of aircraft museums)tend to see vehicles as "dressing" for their larger exhibits and not necessarily worthy of proper care and preservation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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