FV432s with Fox turrets?

[fadedsun]

How hard are these to find..why do they exist? What purpose did they serve? Stop-gap until the warrior was introduced?

[sirhc]

How hard are these to find

 

Real ones, quite hard. There were not many made, as far as I know most of them were cut up or went to the ranges. There are lots out there made from bits. You can spot a real one because the commanders cupola is removed and blanked off.

 

..why do they exist? What purpose did they serve? Stop-gap until the warrior was introduced?

 

I think so yes.

 

Chris

[84KB11]

Chris,

 

Commanders cupola was not removed, it had a low profile version fitted with a flat hatch.

Dave P is a bit of an expert on FV432/30, sure he will be along to share the knowledge at some point!

He did threaten to take his to Kemble military at the end of the month, will get some pics if he does.

[Marmite!!]

it had a low profile version fitted with a flat hatch

 

 

All Fox turrets have these..

[sirhc]

You're quite right David, just checked my Berlin Brigade book, page 51 shows the flat hatch installed where the normal 432 cupola should be. Even so, most of the ones you see at shows still have the normal 432 cupola fitted.

 

Chris

[84KB11]

Sorry Lee, should have been clearer in my reply, I mean the FV432's commander hatch rather than the one on the turret.

If the original FV432 cupola was left in place, it would foul the turret elevation and rotation.

[sirhc]

A real FV432/30, cupola replaced with flat hatch.

 

 

 

 

As seen at Beltring, note girl standing in cupola!

 

[Dougy FV432]

Hello All,

 

You can see Dave P's 432/30 here......

 

http://www.fv432.co.uk/wwwfv432couk/variants/Fv432%20Rarden%20Turret.htm

 

Hope this wets the appetite!

 

Dougy

[alan turner (RIP)]

some views from the RAWHS collection

[schliesser92]

I don't think they were a "stopgap", it was more of an attempt to provide the grunts with a little more firepower. Didn't work too well. The only ones in service were with the School of Infantry (Warminster) and 29 (Infantry) Brigade (Berlin).

[Bazz]

There were a number of these at the RAC Gunnery School at Lulworth late 70's as I did my 30mm/76mm Gunner Mech course then and a 432/30 was used by my cadre.

 

 

Barry.

[cpltomo]

They were used as i have just found out form a mate who was in berlin with them. They were made for berlin as they needed a turreted vehicle for berlin but the russias didnt like the idea of a cheftain driving around berlin so they came up with the 432 and fox turret.

 

hope that answers that one for you.

[BillS]

According to the old AVF Profile booklet on the FV 432 (published in 1973) the FV432/30 was first trialled in 1970. The third edition of Terry Gander's Encyclopedia of the Modern British Army that a smalll batch of 13 conversions were carried out. They were used for troop trails in Germany until the project was ended in mid 1976 when 12 were issued to the Berlin Garrison where they stayed. Gander and some other sources suggest that the project was cancelled in the light of the introduction of the Scimitar which was intended to carry out much the same role, though I've read elsewhere that development was stopped as the trials were not successful. Originally they were painted in the normal green and black camo scheme, but were repainted in the Berlin scheme when that was introduced.

 

There are some nice pictures of the vehicles in Berlin in the Tankograd book on the Berlin Brigade.

 

From the various reference sources that I have to hand I have managed to find the registration numbers of 11 of the 13 vehicles that were converted. they are: 03 EA 43, 03 EA 48, 05 EA ?6, 05 FA 47, 11 EA 29, 00 EE 63, 01 FA 38, 01 FA 75, 03 FA 69, 03 FA 81, 03 FA 84,

[sirhc]

There are some good 432/30 photos here...

http://m136.de/wordpress/?p=5759&album=63&gallery=452

[BillS]

Curious - if you add the registrations on the vehicles shown in the link in the above post, and that of the 432 shown having its turret fitted in one of the earlier posts, to my list you get 18 in total:

 

00 EA 63, 03 EA 43, 03 EA 48, 05 EA ?5 or 6 (or possibly FA), 11 EA 29, 17 EA 13, 17 EA 92(?), 01 EE 27, 01 EE 84, 01 FA 05, 01 FA 38, 01 FA 75, 03 FA 69, 03 FA 77, 03 FA 81, 03 FA 84, 04 FA 38, 05 FA 47.

 

Either the number produced was greater than the 13 cited by most sources (which seems unlikely) or the turrets and associated equipment fitted to some of the original 432/30s were later transferred to new host vehicles, possibly because the original 432s were no longer serviceable.

[DaveP]

I wouldnt read too much into the veh regs,to the best of my knowledge these were issued and trialled in BAOR as kits but didnt work out for various reasons,hence they ended up in UK and Berlin.

Emer E105/2 gives times for fitting as 2 hrs to prep and 4hrs to fit and instructions to store removed items for refitting when vehicle was backloaded for repairs.This emer is dated Sept 1973.So in a 10-15 yr period that turret could have changed vehicles a few times.

I talked to a chap who was stationed with a mech inf unit mid 70s at Celle and remembers these kits arriving on their pallets,he had to go away on a signals course and when he came back they were back on their pallets.

I believe there were far more than the supposed 13 kits originally made but these turrets,I believe,could have been used on the scimitars etc.

If somebody out there knows any different please let me know,

DaveP

[Marines42]

I think I read somewhere that only 12 or 14 of these were done. I think it looks very impressive and modern with that turret.

[Andy8419]

Gents,For my sins... I have one of the "fake" 432 30s but it was a Christmas present from my wife, so its not my fault. the actual 432 last saw aervice in Kosovo as an ambulance and was converted by a previous owner about 5 years ago.I am currently in the process of giving it a face lift and I am keen to find any history on the original vehicles, what units they served with and where. My hope is to adopt the relevant unit markings for the unit these served with on the premis that if its a fake at least its an accurate fake...Does any one know of anywhere with some FOX turret smoke dischargers?Great archive pictures, very interesting, thanks.P.S.Who else finds it midly amusing that a Light Blue SO3 Loggie now owns an armoured vehicle... Great credibility with my LAND colleagues though.

[RecyMech]

I believe (if memory serves from last year) Sharky has both real & fake versions down at Armourgeddon.

 

Over to you Iain ?

 

H

[sharky]

I believe (if memory serves from last year) Sharky has both real & fake versions down at Armourgeddon.

 

Over to you Iain ?

 

H

sort of, we have 3 original turrets and rings, 2 of which were on the vehicles when we bought them from withams but there are fitted with the normal commanders capola instead of the flat type. the turret data plates do say fv432/30.

[TrevorLarkum]

sort of, we have 3 original turrets and rings, 2 of which were on the vehicles when we bought them from withams but there are fitted with the normal commanders capola instead of the flat type. the turret data plates do say fv432/30.

 

Iain, I've written up your two original FV432/30s on PreservedTanks.com here:

 

Unique ID 1838: Armourgeddon FV432/30 01A Jane

 

Unique ID 1839: Armourgeddon FV432/30 14B Ellie May

 

Can you add any more information, such as registrations, dates arrived, previous service, etc? Thanks.

[badger42]

With ref to the numbers produced, dont know for certain on that one. However, i did serve in Berlin 87/89 in the Recce Pln and we had 4 of these vehicles along with our Foxes. As there were another two inf units in berlin and they had the same amount then 12 would seem to be about right. As for spare vehs in storage incase the preverbial hit the fan i have no idea. We als had an ordinary 432 fitted with a wombat in the Anti Tank pln. Didn't take any pics of them as i was in the foxes.

 

Barrie.

[andym]

There's a Mk.1 432/30 hanging about as it keeps appearing in assorted films, most recently as a US Gulf War APC(!) in The Manchurian Candidate but also in Salt.

 

Andy

[afvnut75]

Gents,For my sins... I have one of the "fake" 432 30s but it was a Christmas present from my wife, so its not my fault. the actual 432 last saw aervice in Kosovo as an ambulance and was converted by a previous owner about 5 years ago.I am currently in the process of giving it a face lift and I am keen to find any history on the original vehicles, what units they served with and where. My hope is to adopt the relevant unit markings for the unit these served with on the premis that if its a fake at least its an accurate fake...Does any one know of anywhere with some FOX turret smoke dischargers?Great archive pictures, very interesting, thanks.P.S.Who else finds it midly amusing that a Light Blue SO3 Loggie now owns an armoured vehicle... Great credibility with my LAND colleagues though.

 

Hi the smoke dischargers that your after for your fox turret fv432 are the same as cvrt ones thats what i put on my fv432 with a fox turret if you need any other info dont hesitate to pm me !

 

cheers

[john_g_kearney]

I have just turned up this photograph taken in the Berlin Olympic stadium in May 1986 - the vehicles are there in preparation for a parade (the Queen's Birthday Parade?)

 

John.