Military Fodens

[recymech66]

Is that last photo Fally?

 

 

Looks like it mate but no, its in Osnabruck.

[specopcaptain]

If anyone has a spare £49,000 you can buy one on ebay! Looks in pretty good condition as well.

[Amazon Joe]

Well done , hope you have fun with the new toy mate ! Look forward to some pictures when you get a minute !:-D

 

please find photos of Foden getting ready for repair work.

 

also photos of Scammell drops coming home.

 

Have completed work on Scammell drops (thanks to brothers and (nephew REME RECCY MECH )that arrived last weekend and road tested all working fine:-D.

anyone got any flat racks spare?

[Mk3iain]

Nice pics.

Good to see a bit of a Milly and I want a Drops. But now my neck hurts!

[antarmike]

Get a laptop, there are easier to turn on their side!

[cosrec]

Quite fancied one of the foden drops but put off by width. are ther any issues with the width of them. When in civvy street always thought legal max width was 2.55 m excluding wing mirrors lights unless special types

Edited January 31, 2010 by cosrec
spelling didnt make sense

[Amazon Joe]

Same width as Antars, and most mobile cranes. have been into DVLA and will be Special Vehicle?

Scammell Drops, Private Heavy Goods as normal big hooks are, unless converted to breakdown???

[cosrec]

Dont really understand what you are saying is there an exemption for private heavy goods vehicles. or maybe an age limit thing. Not knocking but that was the only reason we didnt buy one because Vosa told us we could not use on road with out notification. I understand were you are coming from with antars but as far as i am aware majority of mobile cranes are road legal By the way i am on about the Foden Drops not the scammell

Edited February 1, 2010 by cosrec
missed a bit

[kevin royan]

Foden at a local show

[Plantters]

9 Fodens now at Withams.

4 for the tender, 5 for sale direct!!

 

Heading up there Wednesday to look at other tender stuff will try and get some pics

[simon stolly]

Some Antar owner help!

 

As my REME HANDBOOK states that the Foden drops is 2.9m (9'6") wide

I assume that a moment order will be necessary to drive it on the road, maybe one of you Antar owners could shed some light on exactly what a moment order process is, restrictions imposed, what notice you need to give, ect....

Do you have to have a defined purpose to drive a over-width vehicle on the road?

Could you say wake up one morning and call up the police and tell them your route and then jump in the cab and off you go for spin, or is more complex than that?

[simon stolly]

Here's a couple of photos of my Foden at last years W&P truck trail playing with Scammells.

[younggun]

Some Antar owner help!

 

As my REME HANDBOOK states that the Foden drops is 2.9m (9'6") wide

I assume that a moment order will be necessary to drive it on the road, maybe one of you Antar owners could shed some light on exactly what a moment order process is, restrictions imposed, what notice you need to give, ect....

Do you have to have a defined purpose to drive a over-width vehicle on the road?

Could you say wake up one morning and call up the police and tell them your route and then jump in the cab and off you go for spin, or is more complex than that?

 

i think its 3 working days notice must be given in a notification and one the notifactaion is in u can then ammend it to suit , notfication normaly gives route with all road names and numbers wheight of vehical axell wheigts hight width riged length drawbar spaceing axelspaceings ect

no defined perporse needed

1791-1794.doc

Edited February 2, 2010 by younggun

[Big Al]

Here's a couple of photos of my Foden at last years W&P truck trail playing with Scammells.

Hey I remember that! very impresive to see what they can do

Big Al

[gritineye]

Here's a couple of photos of my Foden at last years W&P truck trail playing with Scammells.

 

I was surprised at the mobility it had too, it seemed to only be beaten by the tight turns due to it's length.

I thought I had some pix too but can't find them now.

[antarmike]

Quite fancied one of the foden drops but put off by width. are ther any issues with the width of them. When in civvy street always thought legal max width was 2.55 m excluding wing mirrors lights unless special types

Dont really understand what you are saying is there an exemption for private heavy goods vehicles. or maybe an age limit thing. Not knocking but that was the only reason we didnt buy one because Vosa told us we could not use on road with out notification. I understand were you are coming from with antars but as far as i am aware majority of mobile cranes are road legal By the way i am on about the Foden Drops not the scammell

Antars and Mobile cranes are a different kettle of fish to A Foden drops, let me explain...

Some Antar owner help!

 

As my REME HANDBOOK states that the Foden drops is 2.9m (9'6") wide

I assume that a moment order will be necessary to drive it on the road, maybe one of you Antar owners could shed some light on exactly what a moment order process is, restrictions imposed, what notice you need to give, ect....

Do you have to have a defined purpose to drive a over-width vehicle on the road?

Could you say wake up one morning and call up the police and tell them your route and then jump in the cab and off you go for spin, or is more complex than that?

 

2 days Police notification used to have to be given if 2.9m was exceeded. AT 2.9M exactly no motice was needed. However it appears to me at a quick glance that AILV regs now says the need for notification begins at a width of 3m is exceeded.

 

Below 3m width for a loads, if the vehicle is narrower than the load, such that the load projects more than 305mm laterally beyond the vehicle, 2 days notice to the police is required.

 

But beware, , 3m relates to Abnormal loads/ vehicles. In my opinion Foden Drops is not an AILV.

 

The width of 2.9 Metres is overwidth for a vehicle. No vehicle is allowed to be wider than 2.55 Metres (except locomotives at 2.75M), unless it fits one of 17 Special Types definitions, and I cannot see that a Foden drops fits any category of vehicle that is allowed to exceed 2.55 Metres.

 

The Armed forces are not bound by Construction and use Regs, so they can use a Foden DROPS , Civilian owners who buy ex Military equipment are bound by C and U regs, and at an initial reading of the rules I cannot see any "Special types" vehicle definition that appplies to a Foden Drops that allows civilian use of this vehicle.

 

An Antar is allowed on the road because it an AILV (abnormal Indivisable Load vehilce) as defined by The road vehicles (authorisation of Special types)(General) order 2003. Mobile cranes are allowed on the road for the same reason, they appear as a category of Special Types vehicle.

 

The classes of Special types vehicles are

Abnormal indivisible load vehicle.

Mobile Crane

Engineering Plant

Road Recovery Vehicle

Agricultural Motor vehicle

Wide load over 4.3 M

Local Excavation vehicle

Vehicles for test trial or non UK use.

Track laying vehicles

Straddle carrier

Vehicle with a movable platform (ie telescopic work platform, where the extended stabilisers make it overwidth)

Pedestrian Controlled road maintenance

Vehicle/trailer used for cutting grass/hedges

Operated military vehicles (note that means operated by HM armed forces)

R.N.L.I. Track laying vehicle

Highway testing vehicle

Vehicle propelled by natural gas.

 

The Foden Drops used to fit into "Operated military vehicle" Special type category (when operated by the MOD),If it is sold to a civilian it will then have no category to fit into so technically it can't be used.

 

I am not trying to be a party pooper, I am just trying to help. I know that I have commented before about the legality of running a Stalwart on the road, because it is overwidth, and does not fit a Special types Category, Foden drops is another, Sorry.

 

You might want to try argueing that Foden drops is an AILV, but it would have to be seen as designed or constructed to carry an indivisible load, and that its width is needed to safely carry that wide indivisible load. An AILV cannot be used to carry a load that could safely be carried on a vehicle that complies with construction and use regs.

 

I personally do not believe it matches the criteria for an AILV, because clearly the Foden was designed to carry all sorts of loads which were divisible, Palleted Ammo, Fuel in cans, whatever. It was not designed or constructed with the view to carry, exclusively, loads that could not be split into several smaller loads.

As my REME HANDBOOK states that the Foden drops is 2.9m (9'6") wide

Could you say wake up one morning and call up the police and tell them your route and then jump in the cab and off you go for spin, or is more complex than that?

 

I believe the honest answer is that according to the law you are not allowed to drive it in any circumstances, except Off Road, on private land or to the Docks for export to a country that will allow this width of vehicle to be used.

 

If you haven't already bought, my advice DON'T.

Edited February 4, 2010 by antarmike
I made a mistake, sorry!

[antarmike]

An abnormal indivisible load is one which can not , without undue expense or risk of damage, be divided into two or more loads, for the purpose of carraige, and on account of its width, height or weight, cannot be carried on a normal vehicle.

An AILV is a goods vehicle,

(a) having a mass over 12 tonnes (cat N3) specially designed or constructed for abnormal loads

(b) a trailer having a mass over 12 Tonnes (cat O4) specially designed or constructed for abnormal loads

© a locomotive specially designed to tow such a trailer

(d) a Motor vehicle with a mass over 12 Tonnes(catN3), not itself designed to carry a load, but which is specially designed or constructed to tow such a vehicle.

[radiomike7]

An abnormal indivisible load is one which can not , without undue expense or risk of damage, be divided into two or more loads, for the purpose of carraige, and on account of its width, height or weight, cannot be carried on a normal vehicle.

 

Mike, I agree with all of that, but still have not come up with the dispensation for crane weight carriers which carry say 10 weights each of 10 tons or so which could go 2 at a time on a C & U vehicle.

 

Re the Foden DROPS, if the loading equipment is removed it could qualify as a heavy locomotive. As I understand it there is no need to carry additional ballast. Alternatively as the method of ballasting is not specified it may be possible to disable the DROPS and claim it as ballast.

[simon stolly]

why couldn't it come under engineering plant or road recovery?

It has the capacity and method to recover.

As for what it carried in service being divisible, you could argue that in civvy street it's load is not, such as a mobile home.

Does any one Know the width of the DROPS pallet?

I am a big fan of Foden DROPS, and would dearly love to own one day...... but only if I could run it legal on the road.

[simon stolly]

Hey I remember that! very impressive to see what they can do

Big Al

 

The Foden's off road ability impressed me ( it was the first time I had taken it off road)

But the Scammels blew me away!!!

They were awesome. I could not believe how capable they were.

:wow:

[Amazon Joe]

I have spoken to DVLA today and if I build a ballast body on flat rack and "use as ballast tractor" all ok.

 

if no legal specification on what you can use as ballast perhaps I will put Bens lunch box on the back:nut:

 

Will use scammell chain drive as Escort vehicle. :laugh:

 

Waiting for confirmation by post.

 

I have all relevent HGV licences and so no need to panick on what I can drive legally.

[antarmike]

Mike, I agree with all of that, but still have not come up with the dispensation for crane weight carriers which carry say 10 weights each of 10 tons or so which could go 2 at a time on a C & U vehicle.

 

Re the Foden DROPS, if the loading equipment is removed it could qualify as a heavy locomotive. As I understand it there is no need to carry additional ballast. Alternatively as the method of ballasting is not specified it may be possible to disable the DROPS and claim it as ballast.

"without undue expense"??

[antarmike]

Mike, I agree with all of that, but still have not come up with the dispensation for crane weight carriers which carry say 10 weights each of 10 tons or so which could go 2 at a time on a C & U vehicle.

 

Re the Foden DROPS, if the loading equipment is removed it could qualify as a heavy locomotive. As I understand it there is no need to carry additional ballast. Alternatively as the method of ballasting is not specified it may be possible to disable the DROPS and claim it as ballast.

I am not sure I agree, the vehicle is itself designed to carry a load, namely the rack. Disableing the equipment does not change what it was designed and constructed for.

 

But there may be some way to go with this one because a loco can be adapted.

 

Seek advice from the authorities...

Edited February 2, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

why couldn't it come under engineering plant or road recovery?

It has the capacity and method to recover.

As for what it carried in service being divisible, you could argue that in civvy street it's load is not, such as a mobile home.

Does any one Know the width of the DROPS pallet?

I am a big fan of Foden DROPS, and would dearly love to own one day...... but only if I could run it legal on the road.

 

But to be a recovery vehicle as defined in C&U regs it has to meet the requirements under Vehicle Excise and Regulation act 1994, ie it actually has to be registered as a recovery vehicle, and only be used for recovery purposes. A vehicle taxed as recovery is only allowed on the road, when travelling to a disabled vehicle, and actually recovering a vehicle,, delivering it to the nearest safe place, and returning back to base, having delivered the disabled vehicle. You can't prance around the country in a vehicle registered as recovery.

 

It is not engineering plant because it does not fit the definition.

 

Engineering plant is any moveable plant or equipment which is a motor vehicle or trailer, and which:-

(a) is a mobile crane as defined in Scedule 2, satisfies condition 1 to 4 below; (it isn't) or

(b) in any other case satisfies conditions 1 to 3 below.

 

Condition 1 It is specially designed and constructed for the purposes of engineering operations which could not safely be carried out by a vehicle which complies in all respects with C and U regs, and goods vehicle type approval.(it isn't)

Cond.2 The vehicle is not constructed to carry any load apart from that allowed. (it is it can pick up any drops rack, carrying anything)

Cond 3 the vehicle or trailer is operated by the driver or other persons riding on it.

Cond. 4 The vehicle does not comply in all respects with the authorisation requirements for mobile cranes as laid down in Sched. 2

 

To be Engineering plant you would need to show that you are carrying equipment to carry out an engineering operation, and that the equipment could not be carried on a vehicle complying with C and U, You also have to show that there is no way of carrying general goods and Burden.

Edited February 11, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

I have spoken to DVLA today and if I build a ballast body on flat rack and "use as ballast tractor" all ok.

 

if no legal specification on what you can use as ballast perhaps I will put Bens lunch box on the back:nut:

 

Will use scammell chain drive as Escort vehicle. :laugh:

 

Waiting for confirmation by post.

 

I have all relevent HGV licences and so no need to panick on what I can drive legally.

 

I am not sure you are getting good advice from DVLA. They do make mistakes. A ballast tractor is not a vehicle definition. If by Ballast tractor you mean heavy locomotive, then the width limit rises from 2.55 m but only to 2.75 m, still not wide enough to allow use of a 2.9 m wide vehicle.

If by ballast tractor you mean AILV then, because of its relataive youth ( I am presuming it is post 29/7/1983) it needs to be fitted, at manufacture with an STGO plate containing maximum axle, gross and train weight, at speeds of 20,25,30, 35 and 40 MPH. If it doesn't have this plate and is post 29/07/1983 it cannot be classed as HILV.

Edited February 11, 2010 by antarmike