Old Bill Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Yes, the corrosion doesn't help. I will fix them by drilling a hole in the end and then brazing a spigot, turned on the end of the rod, into it. I have a fix but I still don't understand how it was done originally. What you can see in both the top and bottom examples is a loose slug of lead about 1/4" long and the bore of the tube. There is no sign of a soldered joint. It really is a puzzle! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) In the mean time and whilst thinking about this one, I have been having a go at the fan. Dad picked the casting for the lower mount up from the foundry. He set to and machined it. However, when he put it into position, there was a definite alignment problem. I obviously got my sums wrong somewhere! As I have tapered the pattern, I felt that I could probably get away with adjusting the casting so that it leaned backwards a bit. Once I had squared off the top, you would hardly notice, fortunately. So then it was time to assemble the fan and bearings. I had measured something else wrongly as well as the thread dind't reach through the nut. Very irksome. I blame it happening because the part I copied was metric and I lost 10mm.... Anyway, I had to skim it and braze an extension into place. The heat messed up the paint of course! It worked better after all that. I do wonder how I get these things wrong as I always think that I am being so careful. Oh well. The fan is screwed into the pulley on a left hand thread. This was a bit stiff so I wrapped a bit of rope around it and used it as a capstan to get a grip of it. It had to be screwed on until the spring clip holes lined up and I could fit it back into place. It fits! Next job is to make the drive pulley which will look like this: More pattern making! Steve 🙂 Edited June 7, 2023 by Old Bill 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 That's quite a gear ratio on that fan. The White and Poppe engines seem to have a 1:1 ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsmit Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 I enjoy this thread so much and the fact that you gets things wrong and show the steps is so reassuring to people like me who always seem to need to do everything two and three times. Thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastair Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 I know a model engineer who makes traction engines. He says that he always makes two because one ends up in the bin along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 7 hours ago, jpsmit said: I enjoy this thread so much and the fact that you gets things wrong and show the steps is so reassuring to people like me who always seem to need to do everything two and three times. Thanks. Believe me, I don't show all of them! I hold the view that anyone can do this if they want to do it enough. Often it is getting enough confidence to make a start and not being afraid to mess it up. If you don't hurt yourself and the part is repairable then that is good enough! My most memorable mistake was when I specified the wrong chassis frame for a new batch of buses. The salesman asked me what I had specified and I told him. I then asked him how many were there and how far had they got through production. The answer was fifteen and they were all built and lined up along the fence opposite my window. That one took a bit of fast talking! Steve 🙂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 With the gearbox in, we have been looking at the controls. A rummage through the pile pulled out a totally seized but generally complete change and brake mechanism. These had been rescued from a chassis at a museum in Ramsey. They were a bit shocked when the first thing I did after purchasing the remains was to cut them up! We had to get them away quickly and cut through the easiest parts to repair. Selectors with the brake arm nearest to the camera. The selectors run inside this bronze cover. Usual process of heat and brutality. The quadrant had seen better days. Interestingly, it had been fitted back to front with the teeth facing the wrong way! There should be a thin steel cover over the box but it had totally gone. The bottom of the handbrake lever is located against two flats rather than a key. Cutting the hole in the handle would have been an interesting exercise. The corrosion in the brake shaft is quite remarkable. I couldn't get the gear lever to let go of the centre shaft so, bearing in mind the amount of corrosion, I cut it so that I could fit the bits in to the press. The press soon made short work of it without damaging anything. It is so nice to have the right tools for the job. Similarly for getting the shaft out of the change tube. Time to start repairing bits! Steve 🙂 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpsmit Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 7 hours ago, Alastair said: I know a model engineer who makes traction engines. He says that he always makes two because one ends up in the bin along the way. I figure I restore my cars three times - it takes three tries to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Coates Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 We keep a scrap bin under the bench so that mistakes can be referred to later!! It's surprising how often these bits are used for other parts. But the old saying is true " The person who never made a mistake never made anything!!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david1212 Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/9/2023 at 4:24 PM, Bill Coates said: ..... But the old saying is true " The person who never made a mistake never made anything!!" Indeed. I use a more generic variation to cover non manufacturing tasks too regularly " He or she who never made a mistake never did anything!! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 A friend restoring an 100 year old Deutz stationary engine, found in a Polish jard. Had to completly remake the crankshaft as the original was corroded beyond recognition.... nice job you a doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) Hi Chaps. Sorry for the interlude. This earning a living is rather getting in the way again! Anyway, here are a few more bits and pieces we have been getting up to. First part of the repair job was to make up a new handbrake shaft to replace the one I had cut. Dad turned it to length on the big lathe and then I put the flats on the end to locate the brake lever. Add keyway and cross-hole. Ream out for taper pin One piece ticked off. The shift mechanism has detents to keep the selected gear in place and also an interlock mechanism to prevent multiple selections. These are the pins which locate in the detents, a bit the worse for wear. A wire brushing makes things a bit clearer. The locking mechanism. I took the nut off with a cold chisel and now you can see how it works. The three detent pins are sprung loaded downwards but prevented from falling through by a 16SWG plate which has, unfortunately, seen better days. One of the pins came out easily, one was difficult and the final one was hell. I made a press tool by inserting a piece of hardened silver steel into a bit of mild steel bar. I then pressed it through. Unfortunately, the bushing moved. I pressed the bush back but two of the pins were destroyed, which was a nuisance. A wire brushing of the casting help to show what I had. Two spoiled pins. Turn up some new ones! Silver steel this time so I could harden the ends. The locking plate was a simple filing job. The interlock lever had corroded badly over the pins so a pal built it up with weld which I dressed back. The pivot pin had also had it so I made a new one of those too. You can see how it works now. As the gear lever is pushed across, the interlock plate swivels and uncovers the top of only one pin at a time thus locking the other two into neutral. A trip to Dad's paint shop and ready for a trial fit! Steve 🙂 Edited June 25, 2023 by Old Bill 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Nice mecanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Yes. It does seem an awful lot of effort though! I am pressing on with the controls. We have two hand brake levers , both of which were bent so they spent some time in the press. I then chose the best and started pulling it apart. One pivot pin had been replaced with a bent nail and the other is showing signs of wear. Proper wear! Replacements were a nice turning job. 1/4" UNS and 10-32 NC just for a bit of variety. The pawl is of an interesting arrangement. The tooth which engages in the quadrant had worn away completely but, as I didn't want to make a whole one from scratch, I repaired it by silver soldering a block back in and then dressing it off. Of course, I can't harden it now but I don't expect to wear it out. If I do, then I will have to make a new one. It came out OK anyway. I gave the toggle a polish as it had suffered by being sand blasted. It came up OK so I fitted the new pivot pins and a new spring and we are ready to go. The quadrant had seen better days too so I filed out a new one. It would probably be sensible to case harden it. Gear lever next. Steve 🙂 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asciidv Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 'The quadrant had seen better days too so I filed out a new one'. An off hand remark for something so magnificent! Look at the sharpness of those teeth. I would have used an EDM wire cutter, but Steve just uses a file and thinks nothing of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 You are very kind Barry but you haven't pointed out that mine has only twelve teeth whereas the original has thirteen. This was me being lazy as twelve teeth gave me 3° increments which was much easier to mark out! Steve 🙂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Right, now the gear lever. The lever and the drop arm are connected by a tube. I suspect they are welded but there is no obvious evidence of how it was done. The drop-arm was very corroded and worn so a pal built it up with weld for me. A few minutes with a file soon sorted it. Interestingly, it has this forge mark. It looks to me like the mark of W&G du Cros but did they make forgings? I should be pleased to hear any suggestions of who it might be. Lots of corrosion but still enough metal to function if it hadn't been seized. Drilling out the rivet. I managed to get it out without touching the sides. This is the reverse gear pawl, unfortunately corroded enough to prevent it from functioning. A block silver soldered on the end and some treatment from a file soon remedied it. Now, getting the knob unstuck was a challenge. I heated it and tapped it gently for some time until it just began to move. I tried rotating it with a pair of pliers and eventually, it began to move more and more. At that point I realised that it was screwed onto the end of the rod and kept turning until it came off. Gentle persistence again! The rod shows a remarkable level of corrosion. It was 7/32 diameter but the exposed length had reduced to a quite uniform diameter of 1/16" without going through. The clevis needed replacing so this was carved out of a lump of steel Reassembly! New pins for the bottom. Ready for a trial fit. Steve 🙂 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 If other parts aren't marked W&G perhaps it is a replacement rather than an original Peerless part. W & G Du Cros Limited also well-known as W & G was a business established in 1901 as a motor importers and dealership by Harvey Du Cros, founder of the pneumatic tyre industry also founder and head of the Dunlop Rubber Company and a major investor in businesses connected to the automobile. It grew into a major taxicab business and car and commercial motor-body builder which manufactured it own brand lorries and passenger vehicles. More information:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W_%26_G_Du_Cros Original early 1900's postcard of Acton Vale Du Cros Motor Works factory, W&G Works, overhauling cab chassis, photo by Campbell Gray, U.K. circa 1910 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runflat Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 I'm not convinced about a W&G du Cros connection - the W&G script is normally very different with an underscore. To my eyes it like W&C instead (though no idea who that could be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 It was only a guess on my part. I should be very interested to get some suggestions! Back to the gearshift: The base casting was rusty but otherwise OK. A wire brushing soon sorted it. Similarly for the selector quadrant although this is showing signs of wear but not enough to require any remedial action. Dad got his paint brush out! Then a trial fit. It all went together quite nicely. You can see here how the interlock mechanism works. All OK so it can be dismantled for painting. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Back to the selectors. The bronze case has this notch. I eventually worked out that it was to trap a thin cover which had completely rusted away. I cut one out from a piece of doorskin for a 1911 Daimler car that I happened to have under the bench. The car itself has a new door! As you have seen before, the selectors are pretty corroded. After a de-rusting exercise, I felt that the sides could fight again but the running faces needed attention and the detents would need re-cutting. First job was to fill a corrosion hole with weld. Then I took a closer look at the detents so that I could record what they should be. If you look in the gate, you can see that each gear selection has a different stroke. This could have caught me out! I machined the top and bottom back until I had got under the rust. I then attached a piece of plate to the underside and machined it back to make up the lost thickness. This all looked very promising. Set the vice over at 30° and re-cut the detents. All quite straightforward. Now, back to the puzzle of how the tubes were connected to the selectors. I cut the end off flush with the bottom of the hole. You can see what appears to be slg at the bottom of the hole. This was hard and could have been weld metal. Behind thismaterial, it was filled with lead or tin. Something very soft anyway as I could push my screwdriver into it. All three were the same. I melted the lead out of the centre one. I am still none the wiser as to how the joint was made. However, I have to attach new tubes/rods to the selectors so I started by drilling out the lead and facing the end. This was an original drilled hole that I was just cleaning out. Then I made some plugs which I could push firmly into the tube. I couldn't make them too tight for fear of bursting the corroded tube. Once driven in, I reamed them for taper pins to secure them. I plan for the rods to have tapped ends and be screwed on to the plugs but that will be a fitting exercise, the next time I go down to Devon. Some progress, if a little slow! Steve 🙂 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utt61 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Inspirational work, thank you for posting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Had a very busy weekend. One of the tasks that we had to so was to clear out the deep storage facility. You have to hand it to our security precautions, as no one has broken in to it. Our treasure has been in there nearly 30 years and everything is as good as the day it was stored away. 5 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citroman Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Yes first class security....😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7VHU Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 More camouflage than security. You’d have to find it first : ) incredible work by the way. peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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