BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have mentioned this vehicle in another thread but thought a thread of its own might be of interest as we intend to start reassembling it over the next few weeks now I have the space to do so. The chassis number is 3539 and this shows up in the Dennis logs as being purchased by Ernest Shentall of Chesterfield. It was delivered very early in 1914 (probably January). Ernest Shentall was a wholesale fruitier and jam maker. I don't know if ever found any military use but Dennis supplied a reasonable number of this type of vehicle to the military in addition to the "Subsidy A" model. The 3000 series of chassis numbers appears to be mainly filled with a model described as the "N Type"; the two and three ton models had a 5 foot track and a chassis assembled from rolled steel channel. My friend Mick sold me the chassis in 2009, having purchased it from Lincolnshire in 1997. It may have been purchased by Wallis Coal Merchants in Alford in the 1920s, using it as a coal lorry for a while before converting it to a caravan where it was towed behind a steam engine. Lots of parts have turned up over the past few years (many more than for my 1908 Dennis) so it has most of the major components. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 One of these torque arms was quite bent. Having carried out a "spark test" they appeared to be cast steel so I warmed them with a welding torch in the bent area to straighten it out. This is the engine I have found. It is an Aster of around 1910 vintage; it was once part of a generator set and has virtually no compression. It is also a little under powered at a nominal 14hp; the original was a 28hp White and Poppe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Most of the suspension components were fairly corroded. I made a drawing from the remains of the original springs and had a new set made. Each leaf has nibs pressed in that engage with a slot in the leaf above. All the brass greasers had been removed from the shackle pins so I have been making those over Christmas along with new shackle pins where required. The new shackle pins have been made from EN24T and I have made new phosphor bronze bushes where required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Sarah has been turning the numbers off new Whitworth bolts so they do not look tool out of place when fitted. Most parts have been sandblasted, primed and given a coat of undercoat ready for an assembly party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have this Dennis gearbox. It is of the slightly later design when provision was made for a PTO and the transmission brake shoes are mounted from the gearbox casting. The box itself is in a terrible state. It is heavily corroded and has one of the mounting lugs completely broken off. One of the gear pairs needs replacing but otherwise the internals look pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey01 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Great to see the restoration work in progress, i,m looking forward to see it evolve. I would like to restore something similar if I was lucky enough to find something out there. Is reference material available,manuals etc for early machines,where would I go for these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 Great to see the restoration work in progress, i,m looking forward to see it evolve. I would like to restore something similar if I was lucky enough to find something out there. Is reference material available,manuals etc for early machines,where would I go for these? It depends a lot on the manufacturer. Most of the records and many of the drawings were retained by Dennis and are available at the Surrey History Centre. There is even a photo of this lorry just before delivery; unfortunately it does not show the registration number but hopefully a photo of it with Shentalls will turn up at some point. Each year that goes by fewer parts are available. I was lucky with this one as it was quite a popular model but it looks like I will have to fit the Aster engine as I can not find the original. Dennis had still been using Aster engines a few years earlier but by 1914 were fitting White and Poppe engines to virtually every chassis built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I think this is the final major component I have in stock: It is the correct model of radiator for this year and in reasonable condition over all. As with most radiators of this type it is heavily corroded where the aluminium is in close proximity to the brass. Some repairs have been done to the bottom tank in the past with lead rivets. I am not sure if there is any practical solution to this other than new castings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think you are right Ben. Judging by the amount of effort Father put into lining, rebuilding and sealing our radiator and the fact that it still leaks like a sieve, don't waste your time. New castings are the only option. The top tank does make quite a nice ornament in the living room though! Happy New Year! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Thanks Steve, As I will not be fitting the original engine I will just slot it all back together for the time being and get new castings once I am certain everything will line up. They do not have any complexities like the subsidy model top tank so it should be a fairly simple task. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have been making more shackle pins. A fairly simple but time consuming job. Turning to diameter and thread cutting (1/2" Gas or BSPF and 5/8 BSW) Then parting off, facing and chamfering the greaser end. Drill the grease hole. Drill for anti-rotation dowel and grease outlet hole through to central hole. Drill the split pin hole. And finally filing a grease groove The original drawings (held by the Surrey History Centre) show they were made from "UBAS" steel. This was a trademark of Flathers steels of Sheffield. It is described in period literature as an "Acid Open Hearth Steel" and was suitable for case hardening. UBAS was used quite extensively by Dennis, does anyone have more information on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Shopland Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I have been making more shackle pins. A fairly simple but time consuming job. Turning to diameter and thread cutting (1/2" Gas or BSPF and 5/8 BSW) [ATTACH=CONFIG]100187[/ATTACH] Then parting off, facing and chamfering the greaser end. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100188[/ATTACH] Drill the grease hole. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100189[/ATTACH] Drill for anti-rotation dowel and grease outlet hole through to central hole. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100190[/ATTACH] Drill the split pin hole. [ATTACH=CONFIG]100191[/ATTACH] And finally filing a grease groove [ATTACH=CONFIG]100193[/ATTACH] The original drawings (held by the Surrey History Centre) show they were made from "UBAS" steel. This was a trademark of Flathers steels of Sheffield. It is described in period literature as an "Acid Open Hearth Steel" and was suitable for case hardening. UBAS was used quite extensively by Dennis, does anyone have more information on it? Great work Ben. Fabulous project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Top Tip! You can make a tool for the Dickson Toolpost clamps by bending a big Socket Head Cap Screw ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean N Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 (edited) The original drawings (held by the Surrey History Centre) show they were made from "UBAS" steel ... does anyone have more information on it? A quick Google suggests UBAS stood for Unbreakable Axle Steel or Universal Best Axle Steel. Several references to it; the most relevant suggests Alford & Adler used it for motorcycle swivel pins in the 1920s and by the 1960s were using EN16T for the same job, if that helps. This page has some great adverts for it: http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/W._T._Flather Edited January 9, 2015 by Sean N Add Ads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I googled too (and remembered that I have done the same search before). This article is fascinating: CHANGING GEARS IN COMMER TRUCK - Type Used in Construction Does Not Belong to Clashing System. - Article - NYTimes.com It appears that "It goes with out saying that" and "It is self-evident that" means "This journalist has no idea why" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thanks for all the information and adverts for UBAS. I sent some drawings to the laser cutters before Christmas and picked them up today. They have a minimum order charge of 60 pounds so I have to group quite a few things together. The engine and gearbox mount on two 3" channels mounted off the main chassis by two bracket and the back, a pivot at the front and two additional brackets at each side. Most of this was removed when it was being used as a trailer. This is the new laser cut pivot being turned down on my little lathe. I have one original rear bracket and had interlocking pieces of steel cut to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 And a similar setup for the side brackets I have a little bit of welding to do this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 10, 2015 Author Share Posted January 10, 2015 Tacking the flange and bending at approximately 2" intervals. And the finished fabrication. Just requiring a little bit of tidying up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mammoth Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 You're really getting into it now Ben. I hadn't thought of replicating cast brackets that way, great idea. What thickness of sheet was used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 Thanks, it is great to be making some lorry progress again after two years of house/garage building. They say a change is as good as a rest! The front wavy bracket I think was originally a steel pressing 3/16" thick. I opted for 5mm S275 steel for this application. The welds obviously give it a slightly lower fatigue strength than the originals, but for the use it will get I really don't think this will be a problem. The other brackets were originally "blackheart malleable cast iron" when production first started and later went to steel casting. I think for this chassis date they were probably steel. Here I opted for 6mm S275 in place of the original 1/4". I think the fabrications probably have comparable properties to the original castings. I quite like pattern making but I don't currently have a supplier for steel castings and for small quantities the fabrication route does lead to much faster progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian L Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Well done Ben for taking this 'restoration' on, your as mad as the Goslings :undecided: find a bolt and build a truck around it :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 The brackets for the false frame that carry the engine and gearbox were finished in the week along with manufacturing the pivot pin and nut. I had some friends over for the weekend for a birthday party. It has given the project a bit of a boost. After fitting the false frame it was decided the best place to drain the oil from the engine was in the chassis. The valves and seats were examined; they need some cutting and regrinding to sort them out. There was a little water in the very thick oil so the next obvious step was to take off the sump for a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Marshall Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hey glad to see progress is being made again! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 Hiding in the oil were a number of pieces of broken bronze. Further investigation showed they were from the cam roller followers. This photo does not show them well but does show the general condition of the interior of the engine. These are slotted bushes that prevent the roller follower from rotating. They were probably broken by a mechanic that was a little heavy handed when adjusting the tappets (possibly only using one spanner). These guides could not be driven out because the cam shaft is in the way. I will have to strip down the timing case to remove the cam shaft and I think it would make sense to remove the cylinder blocks at the same time to make sure nothing else is wrong. With the rest of the weekend we loosely fitted a selection of parts to make sure everything went together. Quite a promising start to the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hiding in the oil were a number of pieces of broken bronze.[ATTACH=CONFIG]100645[/ATTACH] Quite a promising start to the project. Ah, the optimism is so refreshing trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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