Redherring Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Can you post photos of any maker/forge markings on the front axle. Thanks Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 Can you post photos of any maker/forge markings on the front axle. Thanks Robert I will take photos as I clean the axle up. A little more done this week, I started with the exhaust manifold. The flange was broken when I got the engine; luckily this just screws into the main casting but with 105 years of rust and nothing to hold on to it did not want to move. So I decided to plunge with a slot drill in the milling machine moving it over a little each time until I could just see the rust at the bottom of the threads. Next was to chisel out the some more of the cast iron and then put the flange into the vice and squeeze it until the casting collapsed. No damage done to the female thread at all so I proceeded to mask, blast and give a coat of paint. Pretty much as good as new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 I have also been working on a few patterns, in addition to the tappet guide already mentioned there is an extended starting handle boss. Starting with a stack of discs cut with a hole saw and trued up on the lathe. Then slots cut on the milling machine and triangle inserted. Then some paint and filler. Hopefully I can get the patterns finished and to the foundry this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 The big job for this weekend was to get the wheels ready for new rubber. When I took the front wheels off the stub axles the bearings stayed in the wheels. When I tried to remove them it turned out they were stuck in the hubs. The bearings are simple bronze fully flowing bushes so should be free to move in the wheel. In an ideal situation they would rotate at approximately half the speed of the wheel. After some initial tapping with a hammer I realised they were both very stuck. I turned up an aluminium plug to work with my hydraulic puller. However after winding it up as far as I dared (concerned about the strength of the flange) it still would not move. Eventually I decided hit the plug with a hammer and that made them move. When they eventually came out it turned out to be a pair of short bearings rather than the single long bearing I was expecting. I think the thrust bearings wore at some point and the hub nut has been tightened not realising they were squashing this bush (the hub nuts were very tight when I took them off). It looks as if the bearings will be perfectly serviceable if I just relieve the ends a little where they have spread. Then it was just a case of making some timber plugs to protect the bearing surfaces when the rest of the wheel is blasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 15, 2015 Author Share Posted February 15, 2015 I didn't need any measuring equipment to see this brake drum was past its wear limit! So I decided to remove the brake drums. They are secured with 8 bolts. The nuts were too rusted away to fit any Whitworth spanners or sockets but I was able to hammer on a 19mm impact socket so remove most of them and the remaining ones came off with a cold chisel. I can't decide if it is easier to make a completely new pattern or just build up one of the old drums with thin ply. The half shaft has a square end that runs through a "driving star" secured with a castellated nut. This transmits drive to the wheel and holds the wheel on. We removed this along with the wheel bearing and cleaned out the grease so it does not all run out when the wheel is put in an autoclave as part of the rubber curing process. After making up more timber masks and fitting them the rear wheels are also ready to book in with the rubber company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 So this is the Kirkstall Forge Axle on my 1908 Dennis (chassis number 573): Axle Number 100191 Then on the 1914 Dennis (chassis number 3539) the number is in a different location with the reverse K and F stamp Axle Number 013191 I also have the remains of a 1922 Dennis fire engine (chassis number 4439): Axle Number 51920 So I am not quite sure how the numbering system worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 What would we do without the internet? I wonder if the Brittanica would have told me so much about Kirkstall Forge Co. Interesting history. There are a few odd recent photos showing machinery. Does anyone know whether there is anything left of the works? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtskull Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 What would we do without the internet? I wonder if the Brittanica would have told me so much about Kirkstall Forge Co. Interesting history. There are a few odd recent photos showing machinery. Does anyone know whether there is anything left of the works? Robert The Kirkstall Forge site is currently being redeveloped and very little remains except for a few derelict buildings which will soon be demolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 The images of the stamps for Kirkstall Forge have similarities to some seen on early Thornycroft front axles. In this case the inverted K and the F are separate , which could be the result of using two stamps. This stamp does not occur on all Thornycroft axles, but is seen on two dating from post war. The word Leeds occurs also on those same two axles. Is there any records or archives from the Kirkstall Forge? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 Is there any records or archives from the Kirkstall Forge? Doug There are records at the West Yorkshire Archive Service. I have not yet been there to see what is included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 It has been a fairly busy week. It started with collecting the front axle from the HGV garage; it took 40 tons and the help of some heat to shift the king pins. I masked up the stub axles For blasting and painting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 The king pins and bushes are very worn and the thrust races are rusty. One of the king pins has been skimmed down and a bronze bush fitted to replace the original hardened steel one. As part of the conversion into a trailer a hitch had been bolted to the axle beam. The water had obviously collected here resulting in it rusting quite deeply. So I clamped the axle to a piece of channel to reduce the chances of warping and built up the corroded areas with weld. One of the rivets was heavily corroded So I drilled the middle out, chiselled off the remaining head and drove it out with a punch and hammer. I don't have any facilities/contacts for replacing the rivet so I may just fit a 5/8 BSW nut and bolt. It is probably how a village garage would have repaired a loose rivet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I dropped the patterns off at the foundry on Tuesday and picked them up yesterday. These brackets support valances either side of the bonnet. I had enough cast for both my projects. The tappet shell castings to repair the Aster engine Exhaust Flanges And radiator filler caps The machining should keep me busy for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 It was a bit too cold/wet this afternoon to do any more work outside on the axle beam so I started to strip the back axle. The axle is meant to rotate in journals that bolt to the leaf springs. The bolts were quite stubborn and I ended up shearing one off. The bolts on the flange need to be removed as well to be able to get the journals off. To get the lower flange bolts off I need to get the axle outside and lift it off the trolley. That will have to wait for better weather! I don't know if I should strip the worm and wheel out or just leave it all in place and clean the outside of the axle casing up. Plenty to be getting on with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Looks like a lot of effort going into this project. Keep up the good work. Edited February 24, 2015 by Enigma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 I needed to stay late at work on a couple of evenings this week and work Saturday so that did not leave a lot of time for working on the Dennis. However I started by machining all the tappet sleeves to diameter. Unfortunately the foundry had just swapped to a new crucible before casting these for me and this left inclusions of graphite (from the crucible) in some of the castings. As the design appears to be a little fragile I have decided only to use these three and get the foundry to recast the others (free of charge). There are other things to be getting on with so it does not cause a delay. I collected the casting for the extended starting handle boss so I can bring it out in front of the radiator. Before it started raining this morning I took the back axle out into the yard and tried to remove the tie rod so I could gain access to the flange bolts. I couldn't get the tie rod turnbuckle to loosen or the end bolts out in one piece so ended up drilling one out. Whilst everything was still rigidly fitted to the axle I took the opportunity to loosen the nuts on the shoulder bolts that the brake shoes pivot on. Using oil, heat and a mallet the lower journals were worked around the axle tube until they cleared the bolt heads and could be removed. Some work with a mallet opened up a gap between the brake bracket flange and the axle flange but then they don't want to move much further. I will probably keep at it with the oil and mallet but if they don't want to come off that way I will make a puller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Larkin Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm way too old to even think about it without needing a long sit down, so how Ben has managed to turn every day into 48 hours long will always be a mystery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks for the messages of support! The rate of progress has been much slower this week, I have had two days working in Southampton and needed to spend the weekend working on the house as we are being inspected in the week for the "Built in Quality" awards. It took quite a while to work each brake bracket off the axle tubes. I kept applying oil and knocking them along a little (around 1/8") with the mallet and then rotated them until they were free in that position. There is a bit of rust on the near side axle tube but I think it is far better on the bottom of the tube where the bearing will mostly be in contact. This vehicle appears to have had a single acetylene headlamp, I picked up a headlamp some time ago but did not have a generator. There was one available very cheaply on ebay and has just turned up. I don't know if this was originally meant for automotive use and it needs a little work to make the water tank leak free. I have little experience of acetylene generators so this could be quite fun to sort out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I don't know if this was originally meant for automotive use and it needs a little work to make the water tank leak free. I have little experience of acetylene generators so this could be quite fun to sort out. I am a caver, I know lots about Acetylene generators. But they are really rather simple. I have two caving generators, both of which exhibit different approaches to venting the water tank. The classic "Premier Malham" generator has a small vent hole in the filler cap, if the acetylene pressure gets high enough then it bubbles back through the needle valve and gets wasted out through the vent hole. But in doing so it stops the water flow, so is self-limiting. The other (Russian) one has a tube from the carbide chamber to the top of the water chamber. This is less wasteful of gas, but does mean that the acetylene pressure is rather less consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks Andy, I think that confirms how it is meant to work. The top half is a water tank, and the filler is meant to have a pressure relief valve (this is missing). This filler is just a push fit in the body, what pressure is typically used for acetylene lighting? The needle valve regulates the rate at which the water drips on to the calcium carbide and therefore the rate of acetylene generated. The calcium carbide is located in the bottom half under the water tank and the acetylene gas is discharged through the tube that passes through the water tank and out the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Thanks Andy, I think that confirms how it is meant to work. The top half is a water tank, and the filler is meant to have a pressure relief valve (this is missing). Typically there is no pressure relief valve, just a hole. (as far as I know). The Miller generator I have for the Ner-a-Car has no filler cap so I can't compare, but the caving generator worked very well indeed with just a hole. I think that the gas pressure is low, just the head of water + the surface tension through the needle valve. eBay has rather a lot of NOS burner tips listed, and occasionally you see complete burner holder assemblies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Thanks Andy, I will fix the holes in the water tank as it would appear it is otherwise complete. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I will fix the holes in the water tank as it would appear it is otherwise complete. There is often a felt pad (or layer of Scotch-brite material on modern ones) to keep carbide powder out of the outlet pipe and/or to diffuse the water. Yours seems to have a metal baffle for that purpose, or the pad might be missing. Caving ones need this more than vehicle ones, if your vehicle generator is upside-down you have other worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Ben, The acetylene generator you have acquired will probably be too small to effectively run more than one lamp. That would also depend on the size of the jets used, and the type of carbide used. The fine granules activate gas quicker, but run out of producing gas quicker. Larger ( small stone size) pieces of carbide will produce gas steadily over a longer period. The unit you have was designed as a hand held lantern as well as otherwise as a static lamp to illuminate an area. Automotive acetylene generators are larger, about twice the diameter, Surprising the number of ex cavers appearing on this thread. Many hours of my younger days were spent underground ( not in trains). Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenHawkins Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Thanks Doug, I did think it was probably not of automotive origin. As there is only a single acetylene lamp needed for this vehicle and the generator is much bigger than those on a motorcycle it will probably do if nothing else turns up. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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