antar Posted November 19, 2010 Share Posted November 19, 2010 Good advice that it will save you money in the long run. Good time to to clean the engine bay out and get at any of the electrical system. And find all those old spanners and screwdrivers that REME fitters lost in there years ago ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted November 20, 2010 Author Share Posted November 20, 2010 it will be interesting to see what comes out of the hull as it looks like no one has tidied it since it came out of the forrest in finland, there were cartridge cases scattered about the turret basket floor, you never know there might even be live rounds aswell, a sten gun would be nice :cool2: eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted November 20, 2010 Share Posted November 20, 2010 it will be interesting to see what comes out of the hull as it looks like no one has tidied it since it came out of the forrest in finland, there were cartridge cases scattered about the turret basket floor, you never know there might even be live rounds aswell, a sten gun would be nice :cool2: eddy Suspect that the five year prison sentence wouldn't be agreeable though, you might come out with some extra skills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 hi fella's just thought i'd give you a quick update on the restoration now the charioteer has arrived at bob grundy's yard ready for it's transformation back to cromwell spec and will be joined shortly by the centaur, in the meantime the turret and ring will be removed and the real work can begin although i must say the interior is in great condition and looks pretty much useable as is but i won't count my chickens just yet ! once the turret is off the engine decks will be next, thankfully the cromwell design allows the whole engine deck to come off as one complete unit leaving the back entirely open which will greatly improve access to the oily bits which are all coming out for refurbishment, then the engine compartment can be cleaned and painted ready for the assemblies to go back in. while all this is happening the turret from the centaur will be removed along with the ring and will get the full "treatment" and hopefully we'll be able to get a gun sorted whether it be a 75mm or a 6pdr i'll settle for either and if the gods are with us the whole lot will be ready to go back together by june and i can get it on display for next years season. the charioteer arriving at bob's yard after the epic 4 hours loading it in the dark at ian galliers farm (iou a beer ian) eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) Great stuff! Keep the photos coming eddy, oh and how about starting a restoration thead like mine. The only difference being that yours will show a lot more progress much more rapidly:D I'll say it again, photos, photos, photos, I have already found mine invaluable when re-assembling the steering arms. I expect the first Meteor run to be up on Youtube in a matter of hours of it firing up;) Have you got any history on the Finnish use of Charioteers? I am sure that some one told me they ended up as static firing points, if that were true it is in remarkably good condition. Edited December 20, 2010 by ajmac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Is it the Fordson to the right? of the trailer.... and more pictures of the charioteer please :blush: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 ok more pics and yes well spotted niels v that is the fordson wot6 also being put back together by bob and just the other side of the trailer out of sight is the carrier being restored by colin waterworth basically all my crap is up at bob's yard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels v Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Oh that is in a nice condition, where all the finish like that? Was it a big job restoring the WOT6, I saw it last year and the cab look pretty bad? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Going back to the track question, there's no real point in swapping to 430 track unless you're worried about vehicle speed. As all H Group licence holders should know(!), steel tracks are allowed on the public highway but are limited to a maximum of 5 mph. Rubber pad tracks have a speed limit of 20 mph. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Andy, can you post the legislation that states that please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 (edited) Andy, can you post the legislation that states that please. http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Acts/RTR1984/www.statutelaw.gov.uk/contentaded.html?LegType=All+Legislation&Year=1984&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=2223862&activetextdocid=2224147 http://mle.ncalt.com/MLE/data/PL_LGL_NLD_01_02/D6598.asp The Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 provides traffic authorities with the authority to regulate traffic within their area. Part III of Schedule 6 to the Act imposes maximum speed limits on track-laying vehicles. Item 1. A motor vehicle being a track-laying vehicle which is fitted with: (a) springs between its frame and its weight-carrying rollers, and (b) resilient material between the rims of its weight-carrying rollers and the surface of the road, and which is not drawing a trailer is limited to a maximum speed of 20 mph. Item 2. A vehicle specified in item 1 above drawing one or more trailers each one of which is either: (a) a track-laying vehicle fitted with springs and resilient material as mentioned in that item, or (b) not a track-laying vehicle and each wheel of which is fitted with either a pneumatic tyre or a resilient tyre is limited to a maximum speed of 20 mph. Item 3. A vehicle specified in item 1 above drawing one or more trailers any one of which is either: (a) a track-laying vehicle not fitted with springs and resilient material as mentioned in that item, or (b) not a track-laying vehicle and at least one wheel of which is not fitted with either a pneumatic tyre or a resilient tyre is limited to a maximum speed of 5 mph. Item 4. A motor vehicle being a track-laying vehicle which is not fitted with springs and resilient material as mentioned in item 1 above, whether drawing a trailer or not is limited to a maximum speed of 5 mph. Item 5. A motor vehicle not being a track-laying vehicle, which is drawing one or more trailers any one or more of which is a track-laying vehicle: (a) if every wheel of the motor vehicle and of any non-track-laying trailer is fitted with a pneumatic tyre or with a resilient tyre, and every trailer which is a track-laying vehicle is fitted with springs and resilient material as mentioned in item 1 is limited to a maximum speed of 20 mph (b) in any other case is limited to a maximum speed of 5 mph. APPLICATION This Part applies to: (a) a motor vehicle which is a track-laying vehicle, and (b) a motor vehicle of any description which is drawing one or more trailers any one or more of which is a track-laying vehicle. For other documents relating to the imposition of speed limits on certain types of vehicle see the following: Vehicles fitted with all pneumatic tyres Vehicle not having all pneumatic tyres Application and interpretation General index to the Act Edited December 20, 2010 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 back to plan A, 432 tracks. not that i'm worried the tracks are cheap enough and might (and i do mean might) go on without needing the drive sprockets to be modified but even if they did i could get a set cut at a profiler's for a couple of hundred quid and it would be worth it to get it roadworthy and on show for A&E . eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Andy, can you post the legislation that states that please. Lee beat me to it! Note that (as far as the Norfolk Chief Test Examiner is concerned anyway), "resilient material between the rims of its weight-carrying rollers and the surface of the road" means rubber pads on the tracks. It's a standard question for the H test. The 1960 Act would have allowed you to do 12 mph if you had sprung suspension but no pads, but unfortunately you're now limited to 5 mph. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Thanks Lee. I wonder if 'rim' refers to the wheel disc itself as in a wheel rim for a normal pneumatic tyre. Most tanks have a rubber tyre between the wheel and the track. The phrase 'between it's weight carrying rollers and the surface of the road' suggests it means track but is obviously written for plant type tracklayers that do not have rubber tyred rollers. As it does not specifically mention steel or rubber tracks, that would be for a court to decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 back to plan A, 432 tracks. not that i'm worried the tracks are cheap enough and might (and i do mean might) go on without needing the drive sprockets to be modified but even if they did i could get a set cut at a profiler's for a couple of hundred quid and it would be worth it to get it roadworthy and on show for A&E . eddy Eddy, don't underestimate the science involved. Sprockets are not just a bit of plate cut out. The forces involved are enormous and 432 track is not designed to suit a vehicle of that weight or power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) Lee beat me to it! Note that (as far as the Norfolk Chief Test Examiner is concerned anyway), "resilient material between the rims of its weight-carrying rollers and the surface of the road" means rubber pads on the tracks. It's a standard question for the H test. The 1960 Act would have allowed you to do 12 mph if you had sprung suspension but no pads, but unfortunately you're now limited to 5 mph. Andy I wouldn't rely on anything a Chief Test examiner said as being law, they are in no position to interpret it. When I did my test, the examiner had to ask me what the vehicle was capable of as he had never conducted a test before, there was certainly no standard questions then. Mind you, that was 1992..... Edited December 21, 2010 by Adrian Barrell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pearson Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 (edited) I cannot quote the legislation but I have read that the minimal dimention of any part of the steel track to road surface contact must be 12mm in width so no ice spikes etc. I would think that would only cause problems with T55 etc which have a narrow raised lip, certainly Cromwell track is nowhere thinner than 12mm where it touches the road surface. I have driven many times on the road with steel tracks and on my test in the same thing, the examiner insisted I ran between 10 and 15mph (vehicle top speed) when it was safe to do so on the road or I would not be 'making progress consistant with road conditions: ie I would have failed. Edited December 21, 2010 by John Pearson Could not spell 'Crowell'!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 hi adrian i was thinking the same thing with regard to the forces being exerted on the track but i would have thought it ok to use 432 track on the cromwell if driven with a bit of care on the road, the loads on a 434 towing another dead vehicle are probably similar to what the cromwell would exert on it's own, however this is only my guesstimation and i don't normally let common sense get in the way of one of my good idea's. so does anyone else have any input on this as it could make the difference between me taking the cromwell to dorset or staying home. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmac Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 Eddy, Lets cut to the chase... it will look pants with anything other than the original track! I really would exhaust all avenues for using original before going down the FV432 route. Thinking totally out of the box if all normal routes fail could you not apply for some temperary 'theatrical' exemption for A&E just as they manage for using firearms on film sets and stage. PS. where does one go to sit a 'H' part of the driving test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 21, 2010 Author Share Posted December 21, 2010 alastair don't worry i'm in no great rush to fit another set of tracks, as the ones already on the charioteer are great. it would only be to satisfiy the regs for road use as i remember the guy with the stuart at a&e did a bit of damage with his worn out track and i wouldn't want to rock the apple cart with the people on the council who are currently endorsing the event and i'm still not sure if it's legal to cruise around in 28 tons of armour on steel tracks doing 40+ mph. i know where you're coming from with regard to my idea of restoration (top up and motor on) but the cromwell will be done properly and will be a rivet counters dream as for the rest of my kit well that's another story eddy ps. i took my h license in 1990 with bombadier simpson at 49 fd ra lippstadt, he'll pass anyone in fact i crushed a 45 gallon drum when reversing on the test and once we'd unwrapped it from the track he said "don't worry lad you'll get the hang of it with practice" and he was right i was great at crushing drums after that :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Don't worry about 40+ mph Eddy, it will only do 32 but I agree with Alastair, it would look crap on anything but the correct track, though it is of course on late track so not correct for 1944 anyway but lets ignore that! There should be a large off road area to play in at A&E so, though it would be disappointing not to road run her, would you take it anyway if it proved impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I cannot quote the legislation but I have read that the minimal dimention of any part of the steel track to road surface contact must be 12mm in width so no ice spikes etc. I would think that would only cause problems with T55 etc which have a narrow raised lip, certainly Cromwell track is nowhere thinner than 12mm where it touches the road surface. There is also a maximum ground pressure for which my Sherman is just too heavy to run on steel chevron track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted December 22, 2010 Author Share Posted December 22, 2010 hi adrian you've mentioned ground pressure before, can you give me the figures, as the ground pressure for the cromwell is listed in the manual you sent me(thanks) and even if it's outside this i might be able to lighten the weight of the tank as 28 tons is the all up combat weight with crew and equipment. i'd still be a bit wary of driving on a hot tarmac road in june but it might be ok if i was at the front then everyone behind could flatten the tarmac back down on the corners :-D. however if i can't do the road run then i won't bring the cromwell as the expense would be too much to justify me playing around in the dirt and dorset's a long way from manchester, i don't know the cost of transport but i doubt i'd get any change from £1500 there and back plus fuel for the tank but it's not all bad as i'll be taking the carrier regardless so i'll be there to fly the flag. eddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 I love you Tank guys. Playing with a Jeep is so easy, but a TANK. Wow, play on dudes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 hi adrianyou've mentioned ground pressure before, can you give me the figures, as the ground pressure for the cromwell is listed in the manual you sent me(thanks) and even if it's outside this i might be able to lighten the weight of the tank as 28 tons is the all up combat weight with crew and equipment. i'd still be a bit wary of driving on a hot tarmac road in june but it might be ok if i was at the front then everyone behind could flatten the tarmac back down on the corners :-D. however if i can't do the road run then i won't bring the cromwell as the expense would be too much to justify me playing around in the dirt and dorset's a long way from manchester, i don't know the cost of transport but i doubt i'd get any change from £1500 there and back plus fuel for the tank but it's not all bad as i'll be taking the carrier regardless so i'll be there to fly the flag. eddy I'll try to find it, I've seen it in the regs on the net somewhere......! I would be surprised if yours is over the maximum GP as the spuds are quite wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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