Military Films: incorrect vehicles/uniforms

[abn deuce]

What of the Hollywood re-bodied half-tracks used in that same scene as the German vehicles try to cross the soon to be washed out bridge .

In my opinion if the bogie's had not been shown it might have passed for a German half-track, but its only a detail a Vehicle historian would notice , that 95 percent of the general public would not .

[antarmike]

.... Soviet T34's ?? at the climatic crossing of the bridge dressed as german vehicles in Force Ten from Navarone

Yup, but how representative is that,... On a technical point, the T34s were all Diesel and virtually all of the German formations would have been suppied with Petrol which would have made re-supply somewhat of a logistical problem. Even Petrol supply was hard enough!

 

Someone will know the numbers, as the Germans documented everything to great detail.

 

Another batch of Photographs showing T34's in German hands, and by the look of it actually in German Service. (Kill rings painted on the gun Barrels of at least 3 T34's is pretty conclusive they are actually fighting with the Germans....

http://anonymous-generaltopics.blogspot.com/2010/05/t-34.html

 

I can't believe the sheer number of T34's used by the Germans, and the wide variety of units operating them!! nor the time period 1941 to 1945, and info on T34/85 also in German hands and in use.

Edited November 14, 2010 by antarmike

[steveo578]

Try this site too

 

http://beute.narod.ru/

look at the photos of a British A13 Mk4 in use in Russia!

 

The Germans used foreign weapons of all types -considering they nicked a whole load of stuff from the Czechs even before the outbreak of WW2 proper.

 

The convoluted ammunition supply required by the Wehrmacht finding a splash of diesel wouldn't be that much of a problem -after all Otto invented the Diesel and Korting further refined it before WW1. There were also several heavy trucks used by the Wehr that ran on diesel most notable the Man 4500S and the Mercedes-Benz L4500A.

 

Steve

Edited November 13, 2010 by steveo578

[Tony B]

Interminable repeats of The Dirty Dozen on at the moment. Full of vehicles, very good except...A couple of M series Dodges. Now you can never have enough Dodges, but does grate a bit. There is also a German QLR at the end. Allowable as captured vehicles were used, The M ambulance has a weird siren on the roof though.

[Zero-Five-Two]

Use of the wrong sort of tank/truck in a film will always be a bone of contention between experts/anoraks, but the item that always gets me is the uniforms, in particular the British Army Beret.

 

Anyone who has served will agree the beret is particular to the individual, almost a signature. Many hours will be spent shaping and "breaking in" a new one until its shape is just right for its wearer. Then you see a film or programme and it is so obvious the actors have just put on what they were given, no style or shape, just doesn't look right

[eddy8men]

you hit the nail on the head there, they look more more like pork pies than berrets

 

eddy

[johnwardle]

633 Squadron is full of incorrect vehicles, when 2 officers are watching the aircrews training they are standing next to a Series 1 Land Rover, There is a scene where some top brass arrive at the guard room and a Mini drives past the entrance to the airfield, The tractor pulling the bomb trailers is a 1950s Fordson Major and there is a Land Rover safari in the background. This film has so many cock-ups in it, e.g a pilot that was killed in a training accident is sitting in the front row at the mission briefing, if I watch it now I am on a constant look out for more errors.

[AlienFTM]

the Panther in British / US hands.

 

British: Guards Armoured Division.

[antarmike]

633 Squadron is full of incorrect vehicles, when 2 officers are watching the aircrews training they are standing next to a Series 1 Land Rover, There is a scene where some top brass arrive at the guard room and a Mini drives past the entrance to the airfield, The tractor pulling the bomb trailers is a 1950s Fordson Major and there is a Land Rover safari in the background. This film has so many cock-ups in it, e.g a pilot that was killed in a training accident is sitting in the front row at the mission briefing, if I watch it now I am on a constant look out for more errors.

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?16240-land-rover-in-633-squadron/page2&highlight=633%2A

see post #15, The only LandRover identified in 633 by the International movie car database (http://www.imcdb.org/)was a series 2 109"( which you mention) , If you have a photo of the series 1 I will uipload it to movie database...

(these guys go through each film frame by frame. If there is a series 1 in 633 Sqrdn I would have thought they would have known.)

Edited November 15, 2010 by antarmike

[Tony B]

633 Squadron is full of incorrect vehicles, when 2 officers are watching the aircrews training they are standing next to a Series 1 Land Rover, There is a scene where some top brass arrive at the guard room and a Mini drives past the entrance to the airfield, The tractor pulling the bomb trailers is a 1950s Fordson Major and there is a Land Rover safari in the background. This film has so many cock-ups in it, e.g a pilot that was killed in a training accident is sitting in the front row at the mission briefing, if I watch it now I am on a constant look out for more errors.

 

Isn't there an Austin Gipsy in that as well? where two officers watch in feigned horro as an aircraft crashes. Then disappaer behind a gorse bush. One grabs the door handle of a vehicle. Gipsy! No doubt! the handle shape is unique!:-D

[johnwardle]

Looks like i will have to go up to the farm and get the dvd out of my Landy and watch it again.

[Tony B]

Update: The film with the Gipsy was Mosquito Squadron, not 633.

[johnwardle]

Hello Tonyb & Antarmike, I have just watched 633 squadron again, just after Johnny Briggs (ex Mike Baldwin off Coronation st) chrashes into the cliff the 2 officers go to a Series Land-Rover, it looks to be an 80" as it has the canvas flaps to reach the inner door handles, but for some reason it also has non standard rxternal handles. Johnny Briggs is the pilot who gets reincarnated and is seen many more times in the film.

[Tony B]

Story of Jonny Brigs is he was asked by Lou Grade, 'How much are you being paid??' he replied '£100 a day'.

Grade repilied 'You get killed off tommorow'.

[antarmike]

Hello Tonyb & Antarmike, I have just watched 633 squadron again, just after Johnny Briggs (ex Mike Baldwin off Coronation st) chrashes into the cliff the 2 officers go to a Series Land-Rover, it looks to be an 80" as it has the canvas flaps to reach the inner door handles, but for some reason it also has non standard rxternal handles. Johnny Briggs is the pilot who gets reincarnated and is seen many more times in the film.

Maybe, I am not that much of a film buff. My 80 had Standard external door handles ( as did all late 80's) but my door tops came from an early one, and these had canvas flaps to reach internal handle. So yes entirely possible that it is an 80 with external handles and flaps!

 

In fact I was sorting through old Landy bits, looking for a badge for my new'un when I found a spare (genuine) external door handle for an 80, so if anyone wants one.......

Edited November 16, 2010 by antarmike

[Enigma]

Pearl Harbor (from the 90's).

 

A Willys MB jeep with Jerrycan....

Whats wrong? The US didn't have the German style jerrycan in Dce. 1944...nor a MB.

They would have had a Bantam, Willys MA, early Ford and maybe a slat grill without Jerrycan.

 

And a Dodge KD 64 ambulance. That's a very late war 3/4 ton ambulance...hell they didn't even have any 3/4 ton Dodges...only the 1/2 ton or even earlier ones.

 

These mistakes are very avoidable with a bit of research or effort.

The mothball fleet, OK. Its not correct to bomb or set fire to original WW2 ones. These were just screenfillers...CGI is expensive after all.

 

So what else I forgot?

[antarmike]

Pearl Harbor (from the 90's).

 

A Willys MB jeep with Jerrycan....

Whats wrong? The US didn't have the German style jerrycan in Dec. 1944...nor a MB.

They would have had a Bantam, Willys MA, early Ford and maybe a slat grill without Jerrycan.

 

And a Dodge KD 64 ambulance. That's a very late war 3/4 ton ambulance...hell they didn't even have any 3/4 ton Dodges...only the 1/2 ton or even earlier ones.

 

These mistakes are very avoidable with a bit of research or effort.

The mothball fleet, OK. Its not correct to bomb or set fire to original WW2 ones. These were just screenfillers...CGI is expensive after all.

 

So what else I forgot?

 

Or the Willys M38, the M-35...

http://www.imcdb.org/movie.php?id=213149

Edited November 16, 2010 by antarmike

[Toner]

There a sci fi film called "stonehenge apocolypse"(sp?)

 

It's set in the UK and USA with the British and American soldiers driving Mungas and Reos (Well I think they're Reos, if anyone lasts through the whole film they can let me know!)

[antarmike]

There a sci fi film called "stonehenge apocolypse"(sp?)

 

It's set in the UK and USA with the British and American soldiers driving Mungas and Reos (Well I think they're Reos, if anyone lasts through the whole film they can let me know!)

Stonehenge Apocalypse apparently has the following howler.

 

The primary school the scientists base themselves at on Salisbury Plain is called an "Elementary School" (written on the side of the school), a term which does not exist in the UK.

 

Speaks volumes about the worth of watching it.....

Edited November 16, 2010 by antarmike

[Adrian Barrell]

It is a science fiction film, not a documentary.

[antarmike]

It is a science fiction film, not a documentary.

 

Surely Battle of Britain, 633 Squadron, Force 10 from Navarone, Pearl Harbor, Saving Private Ryan et alia are not documentaries.

 

All are entertainment.

 

What annoys me most are documentaries where black and white clips are inserted, and often these are clearly anachronisms. Or they are images from totally different battles or theatres of operation.

 

There has been a lot of documentaries that have relied on clips from films such as Battle of Britain, but why oh why do they, in a documentary show us Rolls Royce Merlin powered Me109's and He111's.

Edited November 17, 2010 by antarmike
typo

[steveo578]

antarmike

The primary school the scientists base themselves at on Salisbury Plain is called an "Elementary School" (written on the side of the school), a term which does not exist in the UK.

 

Speaks volumes about the worth of watching it.....

 

The term "Elementary School" existed until at least the 1944 Education Act, Elementary education was commonplace up to that time and beyond, it was education in a single local authority funded estabishment for children aged 5 to 14years.

 

Even when I was in primary school 1959-64 our school had a residual elementary component mainly girls aged 11-14 who were deemed too thick for even secondary education -system was by then Primary [infants -Juniors], Secondary modern and Grammar. In 1964 the system changed again becoming Primary and Comprhensive -this eliminated the above mentioned residual elementary component.

 

It is not uncommon to still see elementary school names plaques on older school buildings, esp. in rural areas -I've even seen a "Board School" .

 

Steve

[Adrian Barrell]

Surely Battle of Britain, 633 Squadron, Force 10 from Navarone, Pearl Harbor, Saving Private Ryan et alia are not documentaries.

 

All are entertainment.

 

What annoys me most are documentaries where black and white clips are inserted, and often these are clearly anachronisms. Or they are images from totally different battles or theatres of operation.

 

There has been a lot of documentaries that have relied on clips from films such as Battle of Britain, but why oh why do they, in a documentary show us Rolls Royce Meteor powered Me109's and He111's.

 

Yes but they are based, however loosely, on real events. A science fiction film is just that, pure fiction and therefore all need for reality is gone!

 

I agree about the clips but that is just laziness on the part of the researchers. Never seen a meteor engined aircraft, the Spanish did use merlins though.

[Tony B]

Yeah well in the Original Star wars Hans Solo, (Harrison Ford, who later shot to fame in Force Ten from Navarone! Worked with me on the film in Jersey) describes the Millenium Falcon as travelling a distince in a time of Parsecs. FICTION! And Holly wood at that :yawn:

[antarmike]

Yes but they are based, however loosely, on real events. A science fiction film is just that, pure fiction and therefore all need for reality is gone!

 

I agree about the clips but that is just laziness on the part of the researchers. Never seen a meteor engined aircraft, the Spanish did use merlins though.

 

typo Merlin