Military Films: incorrect vehicles/uniforms

[Amphibi boy]

Firstly, thanks Graeme for letting me hijack your idea! :iloveyou:

 

SO after reading his thread "battle of the bulge" about using post war american armour to represent war time german armour, i thought lets start a thread about all the military films out there! :idea:

 

a quick recap, it is so frustrating when they use the wrong vehicles, (mostly era) to depict another, for example a pershing tank portraying a panther! but lets keep this light hearted, dont get all serious on me now, (film budgets, rarety of the vehicles etc) its just to note the various oddities! :cool2:

 

i think off the top of my head, im sure its in "633 squadron" but i will have to dig it out and check, there is a saracen desquised as a german amoured car!

and i remember in "the eagle has landed" a german officer arrives in a (hughes 500 i think) helicopter!!!

 

so lets see what else we can all come up with! :-D

thanks all!

[Willyslancs]

has this not been done a couple of times on here?

[flyingp]

my humber pig was in bloody sunday , mkII had one wing on, there was bedford tk in the film too. my profile picture is a shot from the film

[Amphibi boy]

yes i have been told it has, :-( sorry willyslancs, but it was after i posted it, and i hav'nt seen the other ones yet! sorry all again if its repeating threads!

but hey, it keeps us amused!

thanks and also happy new year! :yay:

[Willyslancs]

no worries mate ...all the best for 2010

[sharky]

M8 greyhounds in the guns of navarone on loan from the greek army portraying german armoured car .Greek camo with a cross painted the on side. also theres a pic of a centurion in german marking used for a film in a centurion book by bill munro i've got any clue what film ?

Iain

[abn deuce]

American halftracks and Soviet T34's ?? at the climatic crossing of the bridge dressed as german vehicles in Force Ten from Navarone

[antarmike]

has this not been done a couple of times on here?

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=16240

[antarmike]

American halftracks and Soviet T34's ?? at the climatic crossing of the bridge dressed as german vehicles in Force Ten from Navarone

Contempory photo of a german T34.

Since the germans used the type, what is so wrong with the film? (Although I know the film used T34/85 that didn't come into Russian service until 1944, not this model. Film set in 1943?)

The Austin K4 is a bit harder to explain. As is the Bedford O type.

Edited January 3, 2010 by antarmike

[Tony B]

Force Ten From Navarone was filmed in Yugoslavia and Jersey. The vehicles in Jersey belonged to Ian Cabot, and If I remember some of Richard Le Brocq's. The Yugoslavic stuff was their military.

 

The 'Aircraft' at the base at the beggining were eight foot painted flats, on a couple of hundred square feet of tarmac. Looked amazingly effective even from the other side of the road.

[ashley]

also theres a pic of a centurion in german marking used for a film in a centurion book by bill munro i've got any clue what film ?

Iain

 

I know some a local member was involved with this during his service time and i am also sure there was a write up in windscreen a short while ago.

 

Ashley

[woa2]

Since the germans used the type, what is so wrong with the film?

 

I spoke to a Waffen SS soldier some years ago, and he told me that they used T34 tanks for training to see how best to attack them, knowing where the blind spots were. He couldn't remember ever using one in combat.

[antarmike]

I spoke to a Waffen SS soldier some years ago, and he told me that they used T34 tanks for training to see how best to attack them, knowing where the blind spots were. He couldn't remember ever using one in combat.

 

I don't know about gun tanks but Germany certainly used T-34's 32 were converted into Bergepanzer T-34 ®, others were converted into munitionspanzers of which two versions appeared.

 

Another T-34 was converted into a FlakPanzer T-34 mounting a single 2 cm cannon, and used by PzJagAbf 653 around July 1944

 

Another was converted into a three 2 cm cannon FlakPanzer (T-34 (drilling)) and was used by 286 infanterie division and Waffen SS "Falke" around April 1945.

 

Germany also used a number, with turret removed, in the armoured ambulance role.

Edited January 16, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

.. Soviet T34's ?? at the climatic crossing of the bridge dressed as german vehicles in Force Ten from Navarone

 

Contempory photo of a german T34.

Since the germans used the type, what is so wrong with the film? (Although I know the film used T34/85 that didn't come into Russian service until 1944, not this model. Film set in 1943?)

 

I spoke to a Waffen SS soldier some years ago, and he told me that they used T34 tanks for training to see how best to attack them, knowing where the blind spots were. He couldn't remember ever using one in combat.

 

 

Selection of German operated T-34 pictures

(another FlakPanzer convertion.)

 

These show modification to Cupolas etc, added apllique armour, modiied storage bins etc. Surely these are combat machines. Why go to this trouble for training machine? Especially whe it is clear you are loosing the War and you need every bit of kit you can lay your hands on!

 

Surely these can't all be in training role? They can't use a captured tank to find its blind spots if they have modified the commanders cupola themselves, and therefore altered all the fields of view!

 

I feel sure the germans must have used the T-34 in combat.

 

They wouldn't be using them for practice near any front line either, and if they were in mock combat, surely they wouldn't be painted in German insignia, where they will be confused with friendly attacking tanks (especially if wearing German unit markings)? Logic says if the Germans are using them in practice/ training roles, they would be well behind front lines and therefore there would be no chance of them being seen as hostile Russian Operated tanks, and therefore they would still in Russian livery to truly represent the enemy.

 

No, these are German fighting vehicles and Force ten from Navarone isn't that far from reality....

Edited January 16, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

I would also suggest that some of the German Crosses seem very large and obvious. The obvious conclusion is that the Germans are engaging the enemy with these T-34's on the front line and they don't want to be mistaken for Russians by their own tanks and Anti-tank gunners! They are using T-34 on a front where you would expect to see RussianT-34's and they want everyone on their own side to know they are captured examples!

[rippo]

The Austin K4 is a bit harder to explain. As is the Bedford O type.

 

The germans useds load of the british stuff. It is quoted somewhere how many captured vehicles the germans used and i think it's about 40% by 1943.

 

Have a look here,

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80610&sid=6289bae4da54c82391e9791b48ea40fd

[ford 369]

wasnt there a feature on captured British vehicles in use by the Germans in one of the MV mags this year? and dont forget it worked both wayss,there is plenty of well known picsd of US paras driving round Normandy in a Kettenkrad

[desperatedes]

i would also like to add what i would call quirks (there is a word for this but it escapes me)in movies a bit like in star wars when the stormtrooper bangs his head.one thay springs to mind is in where eagles dare when burton and eastwood get on the motorcycle and sidecar to drive to the cable car station when they start off the bike has twin saddles when they get off the saddle has changed to a long single piece one.im just a bike nerd anyway .anybody got any other similar that they have noticed and chuckled to themselves.

[antarmike]

wasnt there a feature on captured British vehicles in use by the Germans in one of the MV mags this year? and dont forget it worked both wayss,there is plenty of well known picsd of US paras driving round Normandy in a Kettenkrad

 

There is no doubt the Germans used British vehicles, But can we have some more input whether they used captured Russian T-34's in combat. please. That has been called into doubt in this thread, but to me it seems, yes they did.

Edited January 18, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

The germans useds load of the british stuff. It is quoted somewhere how many captured vehicles the germans used and i think it's about 40% by 1943.

 

Have a look here,

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=80610&sid=6289bae4da54c82391e9791b48ea40fd

 

The problem is the K4 I refer to is the post war 1946 onwards version and could not have been captured and used by the Geramans unless they had invented time travel.

Edited January 19, 2010 by antarmike

[ajmac]

I believe they did use T34s on the German side, however I doubt there were very many. The majority of the Russian gear (which must have been hundreds of thousands of tones) which the Germans used was captured during the advances of 41-42 when there weren't that many T34s around. So many of certain weapons were captured that production runs of various vehicles were ordered, specifically re-designed to carry captured Russian guns. Oddly, many of these variants ended up in Normandy as well as on the Eastern Front.

There is an excellent book which I borrowed a few years back, concerning the German use of Captured weapons, each weapon captured in large enough quantities was shipped back to Germany and stored whilst at the same time given a new designation by the waffenampt. Many of the Atlantic Wall units as well as the Chennel Islands were issued with SMLEs captured during 1940!

 

Must have been this book: Captured Weapons and Equipment of the German Wehrmacht 1938-1945 (Schiffer Military/Aviation History) [illustrated] (Paperback)

Edited January 23, 2010 by ajmac

[ford 369]

several dealers in deactivated frearms get most of thier stock from Russian arsenals and it largely consists of German weapons captured and refurbished by the Russians presumably for reissue to their homeland armies

Nigel

[Adam Elsdon]

Proof that the Germans used T34 tanks against the Russians.

 

 

This particular tank was retrieved from a lake in Russia, a local boy at the time remembers seeing tank tracks leading into the lake, at a time when the Russian army were fighting Germans in the locality, and bubbles and oil slicks kept on coming to the surface for a long time afterwards.

 

It is thought this was purposely driven in and abandoned by the German crew, so that it wasnt captured by the enemy.

 

I posted this elsewhere on the forum some time ago, i believe the tank was in such a good state of preservation that they eventually had the engine running and it now resides at a local museum.

[ajmac]

Proof that the Germans used T34 tanks against the Russians.

 

Yup, but how representative is that, is the question. Both US & British armies used captured German vehicles, I'm sure everyone has seen the famous photo of 'cukoo' (sp?) the Panther in British / US hands. On a technical point, the T34s were all Diesel and virtually all of the German formations would have been suppied with Petrol which would have made re-supply somewhat of a logistical problem. Even Petrol supply was hard enough!

 

Someone will know the numbers, as the Germans documented everything to great detail.

[Tony B]

Apart from a few A7V's the German's used entirlety captured British Tanks during the Great War. So the use of 'Forign' equipment in films by the Wermacht is not nesacarily automatically wrong.