Cel Posted March 2, 2014 Author Share Posted March 2, 2014 Hi Robert To answer your questions: the sections came off a traction engine, but there are other sources like forklift trucks. They consist of steel bands with the rubber vulcanized on. The sections are bolted to the rims with countersunk M10 bolts. We first drilled the holes in the rims and started drilling and tapping the holes in the sections one by one. We used hexagon bolts and nuts to tighten them up as you can see in the picture above and replaced these again one by one with the countersunk bolts. We then cut the excess away with an angle grinder for the steel band and a sharp knife for the rubber. Next step was to put them on the lathe. We are fortunate to have this pre-1920 Bullard that once served at the Minerva factory. This was about the maximum diameter that it could take! As for the cost difference, we had quotes ranging from £ 500 to £ 900 (per wheel that is!) only for the vulcanization, lathe finishing work not included. The sections cost me a crate of beer. I must add that it was belgian beer Marcel after cutting the excess: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Marcel How did you get the sections to butt-up so closely - can't see a join anywhere? I'm partial to Belgian beer. Shall have to see if I can acquire a crate and make new friends! Cheers (sic) Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Marcel How did you get the sections to butt-up so closely - can't see a join anywhere? I'm partial to Belgian beer. Shall have to see if I can acquire a crate and make new friends! Cheers (sic) Robert Robert Over here it is possible to buy old stock, unused Cheiftain Tank road wheels at anything from £50 to £100. If gas out the middle, and turn the inside accuratley (on a borer) they will press onto a 670 wheel. The rubber section is quite flat, and they are about 5inches wide. They make a nice replacment for a 670x160. I've put a set as they came (centres still in place) on my living van. I guess you will be able to find some in Australia. Here is what they look like with the centre in them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Marcel How did you get the sections to butt-up so closely - can't see a join anywhere? I'm partial to Belgian beer. Shall have to see if I can acquire a crate and make new friends! Cheers (sic) Robert The edges of the rims are a bit higher, when tightening up with the nuts in the center of the rim (and doing that in the right order) the gap between section and rim disappears almost completely. Whe chose for bolts and nuts because we did not want to ruin the thread when tightening things down with the countersunk bolts. The tank wheels are a good source indeed. You could also split and open them up for the larger diameters. Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypugh Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 On the other side the bearings came off easily, but the big one has a chunk broken out. We'll see if we can get new ones. if you can't find a bearing to suit exactly it might be possible to machine a modern bearing to size. I haven't tried machining a bearing race, but I have had good results machining ballscrews (similarly hard) with CBN tips and a very high cutting speed. (hard turning is more like single-point grinding) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 if you can't find a bearing to suit exactly it might be possible to machine a modern bearing to size. I haven't tried machining a bearing race, but I have had good results machining ballscrews (similarly hard) with CBN tips and a very high cutting speed. (hard turning is more like single-point grinding) We have used modern bearing althought we didn't need to machine them to size. We made an adapter to fit two bearings with the same ID. The valve cover was missing. From a few pictures and dimensions taken at the Sochaux museum I made a drawing and had the cover and letters laser cut. It was then soldered together and the excess tin scraped away. It certainly will look good on the engine! Marcel Front wheel rims pressed on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Lovely job! These things really finish a project off. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Roughly what did it cost to put these new 'tyres' on the rims - labour aside? Nice job... Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super6 Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Why a hole in the letter G? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 The starting handle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Roughly what did it cost to put these new 'tyres' on the rims - labour aside? Nice job... Robert Other than the crate of beer and a few bolts it cost us about 8 hrs of labour. The rims were pressed on the wheels by a friend who has a press that is heavy enough to do the job. I have no idea why there is a hole in the letter G. The gearbox cover has the same logo in it (picture earlier in this thread) with the filler cap in the hole. The ones in France I have seen have the hole so I just copied it. Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redherring Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 What exactly were these rubber sections you used? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 They come off a traction engine, the owner installed new sections. Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Things are coming together slowly. The pistons and conrods are assembled and in the bores. These were honed to remove the glazing and are very clean now. We will put the block on the bed tomorrow so I can install the valves. I have mentioned that the original flywheel and clutch were missing, they were probably removed because of the broken crankshaft and got lost. I hope I will find those missing parts sometime, and have decided to install a flywheel with disc clutch. I have machined an adapter to take the flywheel, and a shaft that screws into the adapter. A splined bushing will go on this shaft and from there on I'll have to make a short propshaft to the gearbox. Again, not original but it will have to do the job. It is time to start looking at the spark plugs as well. These are of the type with the mica isolator. I have never looked at them very well, and have discovered yesterday that 3 of them are Renault plugs, the 4th is a Gurtner. Will see if I can get them to spark again which shouldn't be a problem but as they have M18 x 1,5 thread I can always install a set of modern long reach plugs. Here are the pictures. Regards Marcel The adapter for the new flywheel Splined bushing This will be fitted to the clutch disc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Hi Cel, you have done some great work there, keep at it, just a small bit of advice from experience restoring old engine's, keep the old spark plugs with the engine but use new plugs in the engine, the old plugs cause more trouble than they are worth. Looking forward to more photo's. Andy Napier Lion 5a 1925 Chalmers speedster 1913 Daimler sleeve valve 1914 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Thanks Andy, will probably do that. I am looking for long reach plugs although the old ones are short. The valves are installed. I did not have to shorten the stems after grinding the valves and milling the seats as you can adjust the play with buttons in the follower. There is also a spring integrated so it will not knock on the valve stem. I also made the impeller for the water pump. The original one was probably bronze but I decided to make a steel one. Also the diff is in and the half shafts. One of the next parts to tackle is the radiator. It does not leak but the cooling fins are rusted. Any ideas on how to clean and protect it? I was thinking of carefully pressure washing and then apply a coat of owatrol. Also, what would be the best procedure to clean up the brass? Thanks, Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 We have made good progress, it won't be long before the engine is running. I had to make two new brackets in aluminium as one was broken and the other replaced by a steel shell. These keep the water pump in place and also have some kind of system to prevent the gland nuts from rotating. I still have to figure out what this looks like. The gland nuts were hand made as you can still see the scribing marks on them. Bottom end is nearly done as well, the oil pan will be fitted next. We are cleaning the radiator with a mixture of vinegar and salt, it works nice. While working on the radiator we found a small tag that was apperently fitted in 1928, probably after a repair? Regards Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 Got the engine running today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 What great news. Well done. I have always found it helpful if you have a dog on hand ready to bark at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Wonderful. A real step forward! Well done! Steve :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubbatiti Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Superb! Most impressed with the Minneapolis and Hanomag tractors too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 It's such a great feeling when you do that much work on something and it comes back to life, well done. But is there supposed to be a big hole in the side of the sump - where does the oil live? I don't believe you started it with no oil in it but what am I missing? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted May 21, 2014 Author Share Posted May 21, 2014 David, see post 19 and 46 of this thread, that should make it clear. Regards Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Marcel Ok, so the oil level is just below the inspection holes in the sump and the bottom of the crank is rotating away from that side of the sump. The dippers on the big ends are flicking the oil away from the hole but I would have expected loads of oil to be thrown out with the engine running, even at the low revs that you were running at. Obviously not! I have just completely re-read the whole thread to satisfy myself that I had not missed something obvious and I must say that it is really good to see real engineering skills being applied to mend an engine that has sat for a very long time because no one could see beyond the fact that it was broken and there were no spares. I think the water pump with no impeller was amazing; what were they thinking ? Great job David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMS Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Superb work, well done. There is no better feeling than getting an old engine to breathe life again. Looking forward to the rest of this project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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