important Taking your MV abroad

[Marmite!!]

Another string on this here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=13530

 

 

That thread is now merged with this one..

[ArtistsRifles]

All the information is on the websites... http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51889.pdf

 

Reading that - the only thing that refers to vehicles is section ML6:

 

Ground "vehicles" and components as follows:

N.B.: Electronic guidance and navigation equipment is controlled in ML11.a.

[M12A1/2*] a. Ground "vehicles" and components therefor, specially designed or modified for

military use;

Technical Note:

For the purposes of ML6.a. the term ground "vehicles" includes trailers.

Note: In ML6.a. modification of a ground "vehicle" for military use entails a

structural, electrical or mechanical change involving one or more

specially designed military components.

b. All-wheel drive "vehicles" capable of off-road use which have been manufactured

or fitted with metallic or non-metallic materials to provide ballistic protection, other

than those specified in ML6.a.

Note 1: ML6.b. does not control "vehicles" designed or fitted out for the

transportation of valuables or funds.

Note 2: ML6.b. does not control "vehicles" fitted with, or designed or modified

to be fitted with, a plough, flail or tiller for the purpose of land mine

clearance.

PL5035 Components that are both specially designed to provide ballistic protection and specially

designed or modified for "vehicles" specified in ML6.b.

 

The only other thing that seemed relevant to our hobby is this:

 

Note: ML1 does not control:

a. Air weapons (other than those declared by the Firearms (Dangerous Air

Weapons) Rules 1969a to be specially dangerous);

b. Firearms specially designed for dummy ammunition and which are

incapable of firing any ammunition in this Part of this Schedule;

c. Firearms certified by a registered UK Proof House as having been

rendered incapable of firing any ammunition in this Part of this

Schedule;

d. Bayonets;

e. Air (pneumatic) or cartridge (explosive) powered guns or pistols

designed as:

1. Industrial tools; or

2. Humane stunning devices employed specifically for animal

slaughter;

f. Signal pistols;

g. Optical weapon sights without electronic image processing (i.e., using

only lenses to view target), with a magnification of 4 times or less,

provided they are not specially designed or modified for military use.

 

Sections b.c.and d seem to imply blank firers, seacs and bayonets in personal kit are not covered.

 

Section g might affect those with otical sights such as on the Mk IVT or the Trilux and SUIT sights for the SLRs etc. I'm not sure what the mag, factors are but these sights are specifically designed for military use so....

 

I cannot see why taking, say a Dodge or GMC or Halftrack to Normandy or even a Stalwart or Scimitar to "Tracks and Wheels" in Belgium should necessitate going through all this rigmarole, :confused: :confused: :confused:

[julezee001]

Why are you phoning? you register & apply for a licence online...

 

As the Militant is less than 50 years old it requires a different kind of license! Hence the need to phone to check how to go about it, and how much it would cost? (free as it turns out).

 

I finally received a call from them yesterday lunchtime, explaining that I can apply online, but that it normally takes about 21 days for them to process one. They would try to be as quick as possible??

 

Jules

[woa2]

I was thinking about these problems we are having, and it suddenly clicked as to why it is happening.

 

These regulations refer to the export of Military Equipment, and restricting it. The UK Government is one of the 5 biggest Arms dealers in the World. All they are doing is removing competition in the Arms dealing industry, so they can make more money.

 

What do people think? Is it all about profits? Am I on the right track?

[Enigma]

I was thinking about these problems we are having, and it suddenly clicked as to why it is happening.

 

These regulations refer to the export of Military Equipment, and restricting it. The UK Government is one of the 5 biggest Arms dealers in the World. All they are doing is removing competition in the Arms dealing industry, so they can make more money.

 

What do people think? Is it all about profits? Am I on the right track?

 

 

As a foreigner its probably none of my bussiness but I wouldn't be surprised...

 

Offcourse someone could decide to sell their Fox, 432 or whatever to the wrong country. Still its easy enough for rogue states to aquire stuff from Russia, China or whereever.

[Degsy]

I was thinking about these problems we are having, and it suddenly clicked as to why it is happening.

 

These regulations refer to the export of Military Equipment, and restricting it. The UK Government is one of the 5 biggest Arms dealers in the World. All they are doing is removing competition in the Arms dealing industry, so they can make more money.

 

What do people think? Is it all about profits? Am I on the right track?

 

 

It's certainly a credible theory but as usual with this mob it's a botched, ill thought out piece of legislation. Apparently when they got representations from Imps and the MVT they were shocked, simply because they hadn't done their homework, to find the numbers of vehicles and people involved.

[Tony B]

If you want a military vehicle from 'abroad', Enigma, just put in a bid at Withams.

[julezee001]

Just a quick update on trying to get a export license for my 1964 AEC Militant Mk1. Being less than 50 years old it required a license every time it travels abroad. This can be applied for online, which is an intensely frustrating hour and a half repeatedly filling in the same information over and over again on successive pages until finally it is accepted as correct. Phew!

 

Not yet finished! An email the following Monday takes me back to the BERR site to inform me that the form is not filled in correctly and a different delivery address and end user name is required. I replied that my home address is the end address, and I'm the end user. Wrong!! I'm applying for an Export Licence, so the end address must be outside the UK, and I can't possibly be the end user!!!!

 

AAAAAAAAArgh! I lack the presentable vocabulary to describe the idiocy of this legislation, or my frustration in dealing with those enforcing it. What an enormous waste of time for all concerned.

 

Jules

[AndyFowler]

Up the revolution brother ! :-D

[andreadavide]

So does this apply to MVs visiting W&P then trying to "export" their vehicle back home?

 

This is the letter I wrote today to the Export Control:

 

Sirs,

I am a classic cars collector and the proud owner of an ex-MOD Land Rover restored to her pristine glory.

I intend to bring the vehicle to the UK for some collectors shows in the near future, but I have been informed that, to exit the UK, military vehicles need to have an export license.

Since my Land Rover is registered in Italy and the Italian authorities do not classify an ageing Land Rover of any military interest, it is classed as a normal car as its civilian counterpart.

I am therefore seeking your advice in the paperwork required to bring the car in the UK and bring it back home afterwards.

 

Regards

 

Andrea D******* MD MSc DipLSHTM

University of ***** Medical School

[ArtistsRifles]

This is the letter I wrote today to the Export Control:

 

Sirs,

I am a classic cars collector and the proud owner of an ex-MOD Land Rover restored to her pristine glory.

I intend to bring the vehicle to the UK for some collectors shows in the near future, but I have been informed that, to exit the UK, military vehicles need to have an export license.

Since my Land Rover is registered in Italy and the Italian authorities do not classify an ageing Land Rover of any military interest, it is classed as a normal car as its civilian counterpart.

I am therefore seeking your advice in the paperwork required to bring the car in the UK and bring it back home afterwards.

 

Regards

 

Andrea D******* MD MSc DipLSHTM

University of ***** Medical School

 

Oh dear......

 

You do realize that ANY advice from a UK Gov't department these days isn't worth the paper it's written on or the space it takes on a electro-magnetic recording device??.

What ever one person from a department says, another will deny and put a different interpretation on....

 

Not - of course - that I am in any way biased and cynical about these under-worked, over paid mother-<censoreds> at all!!!!!

[sirhc]

Andrea,

 

Can you provide the email address which you wrote to please? Perhaps if enough of us write with simmilar questions they might start to see the problem they have caused!

 

Chris

[andreadavide]

I wrote here. Hope it's the right address:

eco.help@berr.gsi.gov.uk

 

Andrea

[Lardrover]

This subject has kicked up a bit of a stink on the EMLRA Forum. How are things progressing here, particularly among MVT (I understand they were involved in consultation?)

 

Aside from here, has anyone been putting the issue to rights over a social drink at shows etc, I'd be interested to know if I'm just going to tut and roll my eyes, ignore it and wait for the burning martyrs, or start charging the cellars at Parliament?

 

I'd get a T-shirt by way of protest but apparently need to get permission to do that as well.

[R Cubed]

Has the site changed as I cant find the thing about the military vehicles and the open export license I have registered but dont know where to go from here ???

 

I think I should do it but have got totally lost in the site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marmite!!]

Has the site changed as I cant find the thing about the military vehicles and the open export license I have registered but dont know where to go from here ???

 

I think I should do it but have got totally lost in the site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There's a new link to the site https://www.spire.bis.gov.uk/

 

All the items relating to Military articles are here:

 

MILITARY, SECURITY AND PARA-MILITARY GOODS, SOFTWARE AND

 

 

TECHNOLOGY AND ARMS, AMMUNITION AND RELATED MATERIEL

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51889.pdf

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/index.html/strategic-export-control/index.html

[R Cubed]

There's a new link to the site https://www.spire.bis.gov.uk/

 

All the items relating to Military articles are here:

 

MILITARY, SECURITY AND PARA-MILITARY GOODS, SOFTWARE AND

 

 

TECHNOLOGY AND ARMS, AMMUNITION AND RELATED MATERIEL

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file51889.pdf

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/index.html/strategic-export-control/index.html

 

Yes thanks for the new link that is what I have registered on but once you get in there, there does not seem to be a form for the military vehicle export bit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[79x100]

The FBHVC site has copies of their newsletters and No.4 has some info over negotiations :-

 

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/newsletters/index.htm

 

It would seem that much clarification is still needed.

[AndyB]

Here is a link that may be of use? then look at the OGEL Vintage Military Vehicle

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/licences/ogels/military/index.html

[julezee001]

Here is a link that may be of use? then look at the OGEL Vintage Military Vehicle

 

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/licences/ogels/military/index.html

 

Sadly that doesn't help with either my 45 year old AEC Militant, or my wifes 48 year old IIa Landrover which are not considered "Vintage".

 

I am still awaiting my Export license for the Militant, fo the IMPS trip to Bethune, with the hold up being an end address outside the UK, cos it's being "Exported". Having supplied the address of the Sports complex which is being used for our campsite on Wednesday last week, I am still eagerly awaiting the final authorisation for this trip!

 

Of course if I want to take either vehicle on another trip, I need to apply for a new license each time, until they are 50 years old. What a load of b######s!

 

Jules

[ArtistsRifles]

Just think of the fun I would have then if I wanted to take the Czech built OT-90, built in 1978, to an overseas event with all the main armament in place..... :shake: :shake: :shake:

[julezee001]

Finally had my export license for the Militant approved and sent to me as a PDF file. Printed it out yesterday, and noticed in the small print that it's only valid when printed if it has an official BIS/Spire stamp on it!

 

I'm probably too stupid to interpret the official language used in the document? Or it could be the officials haven't read and understood it?

 

Anyway I now have what I suspect are 4 worthless, and pointless printed sides of A4 paper for the trip to France next week. Great!

 

Jules

[Tony B]

Out of intrest, did anyone going to Normandy actually get asked for an export licence?

[cripp]

I didn't have a licence and didn't get asked.

[julezee001]

I spoke today with another MV enthusiast, who plans to travel to Holland next month. Like many he got bored with leaving messages on the Spire answerphone, and managed to get a number for a direct line to an official.

 

He was told that the licenses had always been in operation, and that without one your vehicle would be impounded? One wonders who has been living in the real world for the last 70 years with the scheme operating? Clearly just another official issuing licenses for those who really need them while everyone else just drove military vehicles in and out of the country without anyone else taking the slightest notice. An almost pointless job for 70 years!

 

I have no idea what the position is now in the ports, but I did check my printout of the license which does clearly state that to be valid it requires an official stamp, which funnily they haven't sent me!!

 

Jules