Tony B Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Top marks to snowtrackdave!!:clap: Don't think for a second i'm going to paint the bloody thing white though!!. Scammell sex change? When it's going well she's lovely but when it's playing up he's a right bas**rd:-D So do you then go totally Bursar, absolute Libraian Poo?:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Made and fitted new rear mud guard. Fitted and plumbed in new diesel filters. Batterys are goosed so have made starting handel and will be giving it a go as soon as i can find someone to work the decompresser leaver. Bit heavy to turn over but will give it a go. May end up in A and E but still willing to have a try:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Well i have had a good scrape and poke at the headlamp bowls and i will be able to bodge them up. All the rust holes are at the bottom of the bezels and bowl. However the actual lamp units fell to bits when i removed them from the bowl....and what looked like a slightly dull reflecter was a rusted through reflector:cry: Then i had a brain wave:idea:.....7" lamp.....i'll use a sealed beam unit from a land rover they fit exactly:-D Bummer can't find a 24 volt one anywhere:confused: Another brainwave:idea: I am now going to purchase a pair of 7" halogen conversion units for a landy and fit 24 volt halogen bulbs:cool2: Me thinks they may be the brightest standard looking headlights on a scammell?:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 At least they are unlikely to get bent off roading cos 1 you live too far away from me:-D and 2 that ground anchor will destroy any mound before it gets near em ! Glad to hear you are still having fun with the old girl mate !:-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 Went off to see Bill today and pluck a rear axle oil pump out of a spare axle. After much struggeling and crawling under a pile of scrap the rear cover was removed and low and behold another knackerd oil pump stared me in the face:cry: So thats it for now The scamell aint going knowhere till i figure out some way of pumping oil onto the worm and bearings. Please feel free to offer any advise and soloutions, i think i might be going down the route of fitting a power steering pump driven off the engine and lots of pipework. But first i think i will go outside and headbut the truck for a couple of hours:banghead: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 So thats it for now The scamell aint going knowhere till i figure out some way of pumping oil onto the worm and bearings. Please feel free to offer any advise and soloutions, i think i might be going down the route of fitting a power steering pump driven off the engine and lots of pipework. But first i think i will go outside and headbut the truck for a couple of hours:banghead: What about rigging up a belt pulley on the axle drive flange, to drive an external pump as near to the oil as possible. Running a system from way up on the engine could give you problems with cavitation, suction, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 I shall look into running a pump off the drive flange. I shall be bench testing a power steering pump with the rather thick 140 oil tomorrow night. Some things i am worried about are... The oil thickness when cold? (belt slippage, Flow of oil to the worm through the drillings in the axle castings) Flow of oil when hot? ( Still enough oil pressure having made adjustments for cold oil?) How much oil do i need to pump? ( an engine driven pump will supply a good flow all the time but how much oil do i need to pump if running off the propshaft in first gear ticking over?) Does the Scammell oil pump work in reverse? Like the one in the gear box, it has no ball valves to control the oil flow. I will let you know the results of the steering pump experiments soon Pleasee feel free to offer any thoughts to any of my questions:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 (edited) Bit of a bummer finding another broken one Robert, but what can you save from the two pumps? It may be easier to have some new bits made. It would be worth investigating what caused them to break, I would suspect metal fragments passing through or running dry, somewhere on here I read that metal particles can block the inlet pipe to the pump, this can't be seen until the pipe is removed. (I think I'll have a look at mine!!) Would it be worth researching (poking around scrapyards) or asking around to find a rotor type oil pump from an engine that you may be able to adapt? This would be able to prime from the sump and may be able to be fitted and driven like the original one given a bit of cunning. Like this: http://www.nbjincheng.cn/open_en.asp?id=1113&cataid=107 As to the steering pump idea, a couple of thoughts: Getting the gearing right, that prop spins very fast. Belt/chain throwing off if stones etc get in between. Most power steering pumps do not self prime and need a reservoir, so the pump would have to be fitted below the oil level, to keep it full when not working. You will have no return to top up a reservoir because the oil returns to the diff sump. The diff pump is rotor type pump and I think it works in reverse without valves as diferent ports are uncovered when rotation changes, don't quote me I may be wrong without looking at one! The original pump would not pump much at low speeds either, and as you would know about no pressure in reverse you would drive accordingly, there would still be oil there, just not so much, ok for a few feet.. If you ran an engine driven one I don't think an oversupply of oil would be a problem at low speeds, getting a flow started could be though. There is no problem that can't be fixed by the concentrated thought of many minds... Edited January 4, 2010 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 What are the internals of the pump gears, rotor or ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 what is broke on your pumps. could you put some pics on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 It's a rotor Chris, http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=11592&page=8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Well i'm not sure i stand much chance of refurbishing this!! Even the case has smashed where the shaft comes out. the one i took off Bills spare axle is even worse:cry: Also they are different sizes, mine is a first contract explorer and the pump is the same shape but much smaller. i only noticed when i put them on the bench next to each other. This axle oil pump situation has me a bit stumped at the mo. Mine is smashed, The one out of Bills is smashed. A chap i know with a scammell called "jumbo" found his had broken and i'm sure someone on this site had a diff problem because of a smashed pump. It takes 15 mins to remove the cover off the rear of the diff so if you have an explorer take a look. Hopefuly you will find a nice shiney pump or something you can salvage. Better than waiting for strange crunchy noises and then trying to find a new diff. Just a thought but i wonder if a slightly worn pump that has been standing for a few months and the oil has drained out do you think it would hav enough suck to re prime itself? The gear box pump is submerged but this stupid arrangement leaves the pump high and dry. might not be helped if you have to do a load of low speed shunting back and forth to get your truck out of it's parking spot:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Utter destruction:( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 For Sale.....Scammell explorer will swap for road worthy AEC militant Recovery truck:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Robert, That looks like a common style of concentric pump used in engines, I wonder if it was an off the shelf type used in other applications? It would be possible to dispense with gears if damaged and fit a chain and sprockets. I think anyone inspecting their axle, would be wise to drain and flush it through with diesel or paraffin, to make sure there is no metal debris laying inside, as this would appear to be what has damaged the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 Anyone got any thoughts on this? could be driven off engine or propshaft. Will it suck oil and self prime? might be a bit of over kill but just browsing round at the mo.:coffee: will try to get more info about the propper pump if i can:confused:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ex-MOD-Hydraulic-Pump-NOS_W0QQitemZ130320946924QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item1e57bbd6ec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Robert, That looks like a common style of concentric pump used in engines, I wonder if it was an off the shelf type used in other applications? It would be possible to dispense with gears if damaged and fit a chain and sprockets. I think anyone inspecting their axle, would be wise to drain and flush it through with diesel or paraffin, to make sure there is no metal debris laying inside, as this would appear to be what has damaged the pump. Chain and sprockets would only work if the pump is reversible like the gearbox one. Somehow I don't think it is as high speeds in reverse are not possible. Don't forget, Pioneer never used a pump with a similar set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Chain and sprockets would only work if the pump is reversible like the gearbox one. Somehow I don't think it is as high speeds in reverse are not possible. Don't forget, Pioneer never used a pump with a similar set up. Mike, I can see that the concentric pump could only work in one direction. The distance that one of these would be reversed would not normally be high, and only in a low gear ratio. Pioneers were very much lower top speed than an Explorer, at least 10 mph slower, so it may have been this factor that the pumps were fitted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 So is there no oil pump in a pioneer then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Thinking back to when I was working on Explorers when they were in service, I do not recollect any problems with these pumps. Admitedly they were newer then, but it does make me wonder if the docile old Meadows was more kinder to the rear axle, and perhaps the more torquey diesels now being used are wearing the gears causing metal fragments to get in the pump. Also, the strict servicing regime in the army, of changing oils at regular intervals, would keep any metal particles in the oil to a minimum. .......just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 So is there no oil pump in a pioneer then? Correct, photo of Jim's one: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thor698 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 So is there no oil pump in a pioneer then? no. i know of explorers that have run without oil pumps.with no problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 no.i know of explorers that have run without oil pumps.with no problems. It makes you think,...if a pump fails because it has ingested metal fragments......then there has been a problem already in the gears, bearings or diff, so repairing the pump and carrying on is not solving the original problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 My thoughts exactly Richard, I all this made me take the cover off and have a look at my pump today, happily all OK! I pulled off the gear so that I could turn and check the pump, it took half a dozen slow turns to prime (it was driven four days ago) and squirt oil out of the jet that lubes the thrust bearing, rear roller bearing and pump gears, Without this jet the pump gallery would soon drain dry through the bearings when going down hill, or parked on a slope. The front bearing seems to be lubed by oil thrown off the crownwheel, this cannot happen to the rear one. Pioneers must have a catcher for this, or summat. The worm and crownwheel could probably last a long time running light just on what is dragged round from the sump, but the rear bearings must surely wear or fail quite quickly, and these takes all the thrust. Running pumpless, especially if particles from damage have wrecked it, must be a bit chancy, it's there for a good reason after all! Nearly forgot, the pump definately does not work in reverse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) For Sale.....Scammell explorer will swap for road worthy AEC militant Recovery truck:) just because u think u are safe form the scammell mafia a top that mountain of yours doesent mean we wont come up there and beat u with a rubber hose. :-D your explorer seems to had a very hard life tho rob its about time someone loved her maybee your not sleeping with her enough, leaving her out in the cold all the time now getting back to this pump ok so the pump dose not work in reverse and the pioneer dosent have a pump at all ! and there are stories of explorers running round with no oil pump ! so dose the explorer only have an oil pump to circulate the oil through the heat exchanger to keep it cool or warm depending on climmate . ? Edited January 25, 2010 by younggun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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