radiomike7 Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Well done Bernard, that answers several questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Nick, the pump squirts a lot of cooled/warmed oil on the worm in two places and a smaller amount to lube the pump gears and thrust bearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 (edited) Nick, the pump squirts a lot of cooled/warmed oil on the worm in two places and a smaller amount to lube the pump gears and thrust bearing. but how is this done on the pioneer? we could do with a pioneer parts manual to make a comparsion . any one got one ? Edited January 25, 2010 by younggun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Glad to hear one person has had a look at their pump and found all is well:sweat:Just wondering but my scammell was only used once or twice a year before i got it so mabey the pump siezed while standing? there is a breather pipe connected near it so moisture could get in. Bills axle was absoloutly full of rust when i took the cover off:??? Mabey the higher road speed of 39 mph ment it was wise to fit a pump and cooler to the Explorer. I'm pretty sure at that speed the prop shaft is running close to 4000 rpm:shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 The Pioneer being relatively low speed low power could get by without cooling. On an Explorer I reckon the spoon full of oil trapped around the thrust bearing would keep it lubed for a while, but the roller bearing next to it would quickly be running dry without a pump. But when working hard in hot climes it would need the cooled oil flowing through it and into the sump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Robert, My breather pipe is missing just noticed today, that inside of the pump chamber had a film like oil and very fine dust mixed, may have got in through the breather hole, so yes rust would be a possible cause!.....which gives me an idea, could you not fit a drip feed in the breather hole to lube the thrust and top up every trip? Take it easy and it should work for a stopgap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 Drip feeder eh? hmmmm lots of thought running round my head at the mo like filling the diff REALLY full of oil:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ace1 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 but how is this done on the pionear? we could do with a pionear parts manual to make a comparsion . any one got one ? The pioneer has a "scoop?" inside that catches the oil carried round the crown wheel, which is then flung off to one side in to the "scoop" and down a pipe to the thrust bearing. When i replaced the main bearings on SPARKY someone had put the scoop on the wrong way round, so no oil to the bearing. (Doh) Alan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 With a drip feed you would still need a breather to stop the seals blowing, over filling would probably mean most of it getting past the felt seal into the walking beams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hmmm i'll figure something out just you wait and see:idea: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 Right told you i would figure something out so hear is the plan:idea: I have decided that the way forward is an external gear hydraulic pump as they have rather good suction properties. I am looking at several on ebay at the moment. i am pondering just how to drive the pump. Option 1 is to mount it o the engine and run it off the crank pully thus providing constant oil flow all the time the engine is running. Option 2 will involve making a new cover for the rear of the diff with the pump bolted on to it (in effect in the oil pumps normal position only sticking out the back) It would be nice if the taper on the new pump and the oil pump gear were the same but i doubt it very much. Can anyone tell me which way the propshaft turns when running in forward direction as my batterys are dead at the mo and it's to snowy to be jacking the rear wheels off the ground and crawling round under it. I think it's anti clockwise looking at the transmission brake but i'm not 100% sure Your thoughts are welcome http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYDRAULIC-GEAR-PUMP-GROUP-1-5-8cc-rev-NEW_W0QQitemZ320411655762QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4a9a05de52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Have noticed in the specification it states 600rpm min. You may need to gear up the drive from the diff pinion to maintain oil flow at low speeds. Is the pump self priming and will it lose oil supply when stood for long periods? You may need a non return valve in the pick-up pipe. Unless you do a lot of heavy towing are you going to put the strain on the diff that means it needs the oil pump? I would have thought splash lubrication would suffice in most cases as it does in almost all other axles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 Yep the pump self primes. The 600 rpm it the minimum speed the pump works at. They also handel very viscous oils well. the main problem it the rear bearing running dry of oil. I think the worm and wheel would be ok with normal road work but if the oil gets too hot and the scammell is then reduced to very low speeds Eg. goes off road or climing a large hill in low gear the hot oil runs off the crown wheel before it reaches the top and the worm:( not very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 http://trueasset.org.uk/index.php?page=pumps saw this and thort of u :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Thanks:thumbsup: i had a look for an electric pump but was unable to find one that would run constantly. most seemed to be oil transfer pumps. Still worth a look. cheers. I am curently in the process of bodging up a pully bearing shaft and coupling arrangement to drive the oil pump off the fan belt. Then we should have plenty of oil circulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted March 27, 2010 Author Share Posted March 27, 2010 Right, after much faffing, bodging and machining i now have an engine driven axle oil pump. I have run the pipes to and from the axle to the pump and back but have not connected up the flow to the axle feed piping, it is just returning back into the axle filler plug so i can see what sort of flow rate i have. So the problem is i have only a small dribble of oil unchanged by revving the engine:embarrassed: I am pretty sure the problen is the thickness of the oil as it is cold. In fact the oil makes a small pile in the filler neck as it dribbles out of the pipe! The book says the worm and the rear bearing are lubricated by a "jet" of oil from drillings in the diff case. I think i would need a rather a lot of pressure to make this cold oil form a jet. I am happy with the amount of oil flowing to lubricate the rear bearings but i think the oil going to the worm will just run down the sides if the casing.The situation should improve as the oil warms up (and with an oil change to a 140 grade) but i cannot take it for a spin at the mo. I do have a larger feed pipe to the pump but the internal size is still only about 8 to 10 mm. The pressure pipe to the axle is about 6mm internal hydraulic pipe. The flow of oil from the feed pipe has air bubbles in and i can put my finger over the end and stop the flow which points to air getting in the suction side or Cavitation of the pump du to the thickness of the oil. I need to double check the feed for leaks as it went dark but really think it is cavitation. I pre lubed the pump before starting up and it took about 2 mins to start circulating oil (and air bubbles) I could always increase the feed pipe size as i have a large length of the air brake hose left over from the re pipe of the air system. The air pipe is at least half as big again as the current diameter feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted March 27, 2010 Author Share Posted March 27, 2010 Is the rubber air pipe oil resistant? i don't want to find it going soft ect after a while. your thoughts please i have enough flow for the rear bearings it is just the worm and wheel that bother me. Your thoughts please:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted April 3, 2010 Author Share Posted April 3, 2010 Had another play with the plumbing today. Have decided to fit the air hose to the suction side of the pump. this has doubled the internal size of the pipe, i also drilled out the fitting screwed into the pump. This time when i fired him up it took about 45 seconds to prime up (The new pipe was compleatly dry) and i now have a steady flow of cold oil which will improve as it warms up. Also if you hold the pressure pipe you can feel slight vibration and hear the buzz of the pump so all i have to do when i grease the prop shaft is feel the hose on the axle for vibration and i know all is well. Final bit of piping at the axle end to do and clean out the last of the grinding dust from the oil pump and i might take him for a spin down the lane next weekend. Will try to post some pictures of this bodge when i get the camera sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 That sounds Great both for the fix you made to your pumping system and for the promise of the new photo's ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted April 3, 2010 Share Posted April 3, 2010 Had another play with the plumbing today. Have decided to fit the air hose to the suction side of the pump. this has doubled the internal size of the pipe, i also drilled out the fitting screwed into the pump. This time when i fired him up it took about 45 seconds to prime up (The new pipe was compleatly dry) and i now have a steady flow of cold oil which will improve as it warms up. Also if you hold the pressure pipe you can feel slight vibration and hear the buzz of the pump so all i have to do when i grease the prop shaft is feel the hose on the axle for vibration and i know all is well. Final bit of piping at the axle end to do and clean out the last of the grinding dust from the oil pump and i might take him for a spin down the lane next weekend. Will try to post some pictures of this bodge when i get the camera sorted. Nice to hear that its all turned out ok mate ! Well done ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Just thought i would try to post a link to friends web site as he has a few ex military recovery trucks. also has lots of good pictures of said recovery trucks in action. Enjoy http://hesletonrecovery.co.uk/default.aspx And yes that is one of the fodens that the army havent broken and it has all the remote boxes too. really nice lorry. Edited April 11, 2010 by rbrtcrowther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Very nice toy box your friend has Rob and an Explorer too !! P.S. Love the dogs names ! Edited April 11, 2010 by AndyFowler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 The explorer is now fitted with a leyland 680 after much popping and farting with the petrol lump. Think he may still have the petrol engine if anyone wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbrtcrowther Posted April 11, 2010 Author Share Posted April 11, 2010 did you spot the militant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted April 11, 2010 Share Posted April 11, 2010 The explorer is now fitted with a leyland 680 after much popping and farting with the petrol lump. Think he may still have the petrol engine if anyone wants it. Two reasons I can't have it Rob ! Cash and space at the moment ! :cry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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