Markheliops Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Hi all. Had this forwarded to me. Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photo card driving licences expire. Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence. They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photo card licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70. The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire. Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life. Enlarge  A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photo cards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b' They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed. To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years. Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding. With another 300,000 photo card licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine. At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version. Just below the driver name on the front of the photo card licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered. Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means. The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'. Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday. A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years. Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving. But the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine. AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photo card licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences. 'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it. 'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.' The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge. Before photo card licences were introduced, old-style paper licences were valid until the age of 70. 'Many motorists still believe this to be the case with the new ones.' Driving instructor Tony Carter, of Canterbury, said: 'It's outrageous; everybody thinks their driving licence is for life. 'Why - when you have already paid £50 for your photo card licence - should you pay the Government an extra £17.50 every 10 years? 'It's another stealth tax. Drivers will be very annoyed.' Today the DVLA said the date of expiry was carried on the new-style licences, even though the AA says this is 'not clear'. The Agency was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued. It said it was issuing postal reminders to drivers whose photograph was due to expire, to get the renewal message across. But a spokesman admitted this was the limit of the DVLA's publicity. Experts say many drivers will slip through the net because DVLA records are inaccurate and many motorists have changed address, making it impossible to trace them. A DVLA spokesman said: 'Previous experience has shown that wide-scale publicity is less effective and can generate enquiries and concerns from those not affected. Instead, DVLA focussed on targeted publicity to ensure that we got the message to the right person at the right time.' The Driving Standards Agency is allowing L-test candidates with out-of-date photo card licences to sit their driving tests as long as they provide a valid passport. This concession will end in January next year, raising the prospect that some L-test candidates will be turned away. The DVLA said no one had so far been charged with failing to surrender a licence. * I didn't know about this so it may well be worth forum members checking their licences. Markheliops PS - This isn't a polictical rant but members beware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowtracdave Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I remember saying when the photo card licences came out that I was going to hang on to my bit of paper cos I'm b*ggered if I'm going to fork out £10 every ten years for a new card. Can't understand why people are surprised by something that was clearly spoken about when the scheme was introduced. The other problem mentioned at the start was that people were finding that not all of their entitlements were being listed on the new licence & folk were being told that if they didn't ask for all their previous categories to be put on the card they would only get the basics . Remember a few people suddenly found they were no longer licenced to ride a bike & the powers that be saying 'we've got no record you ever passed a test so you can't ride your bike anymore - not til you take a test' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Don't panick... The DVLA said yesterday that the date of expiry was carried on the new-style licences, but was unable to say whether motorists were told the licences would expire when they were first issued. A spokesman said: 'It is important that photocards are updated every ten years to ensure the police and other enforcement agencies can identify whether a driving licence is being used fraudulently.' The agency is sending reminders to drivers whose photocard is due to expire, and no one has so far been charged with failing to surrender their licence. The Association of British Insurers and the Department for Transport said that insurance cover was not affected if drivers failed to update their photocard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Thanks for that, Mark! I was really hacked off to find out that you are still supposed to carry around the paper counterpart that goes with the credit card sized photo one. What is the point of that? Might as well have stuck with the paper one. Whilst they can now do a roadside check, some will still insist that you present your paper licence at the nearest police station. We really are quite pathetic in this country at making any sort of sensible progress :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I do like the bit about 'Wide spread publicity generates unwanted enquires'. We aren't going to tell you beacuase we don't want the tea breack disturbed. No wonder you can never get a straight answer from them or VOSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm glad I still have the original licence, worth taking care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Thanks for that, Mark! I was really hacked off to find out that you are still supposed to carry around the paper counterpart that goes with the credit card sized photo one. What is the point of that? Might as well have stuck with the paper one. Whilst they can now do a roadside check, some will still insist that you present your paper licence at the nearest police station. We really are quite pathetic in this country at making any sort of sensible progress :argh: Unfortunatley yes, both parts are required. There is also a ultra violet flouresent bit built into the photo card. There is still no requirment in this country to carry your licences at all times, at least for car drivers. But if going abroad check local rules and regs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I remember saying when the photo card licences came out that I was going to hang on to my bit of paper cos I'm b*ggered if I'm going to fork out £10 every ten years for a new card. Can't understand why people are surprised by something that was clearly spoken about when the scheme was introduced. The other problem mentioned at the start was that people were finding that not all of their entitlements were being listed on the new licence & folk were being told that if they didn't ask for all their previous categories to be put on the card they would only get the basics . Remember a few people suddenly found they were no longer licenced to ride a bike & the powers that be saying 'we've got no record you ever passed a test so you can't ride your bike anymore - not til you take a test' Don't start me on this one!!!! When I finally got my license back after hiving it revoked due to the onset of epilepsy (as a result of Crown service) I was given no choice but to have a photo-card license and got stung for the wedge of cash - otherwise it was a case of no license, no driving. Then when I got the damned thing the equivalents of the GV 1,2, & 3 , PSV, bike and H groups were all missing. I got onto DVLA immediately because I was damned furious about this and was told I could no longer have the three HGV classes or the PSV because of the epilepsy. OK, that was fair enough but I was also told I couldn't have my H or Bike license back because THEY had lost the s*dding pass certificates that were attached to the paper license I'd had to surrender 7 years previously!!! Their attitude really was one of "tough sh*t - you'll just have to go and pay to resit the tests then won't you". :argh: Couple this to the greif and expense their incompetence and utter crass stupidity has cost me with the OT-90 and you might just understand why I hate their b*st*rd guts with a passion!!! :argh: :argh: :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyFowler Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Don't worry Neil ! You are not alone ! Many people share your opinions ! :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashley Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I'm glad I still have the original licence, worth taking care of. O.K unless you move ...then to get your details changed you have to send it in. Ashley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 But surely you take a photocopy of your licence before sending it in. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Was in the Lincoln DVLA local office yesterday, they confirmed reminders to renew photo licences will be sent out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Lincoln might know BUT has anyone told the big computer in Wales? :shocked: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Whilst on the subject of driving licenses, it you have type 2 NIDDM diabeties you have to inform the DVLA Swansea. This was not a requirement before unless you were a Type ! requiring insulin. Being a type 2 I asked the Diabeties Association as it had appeared on a list of medical conditions on the DVLA's license application booklet that they have to be informed about, something like 20 plus categories. They knew nothing about it as the Diabeties Association had niether been consulted or informed of this requirement. If the DVLA's medical officer decides to withdraw your license you CANNOT appeal. It states this fact on the letter you get back from the DVLA. Get a copy of the booklet you could have a condition that is listed. The Swansea 'Black shirts' are watching you! Phil P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Glad I've still got my paper type,.........(exp 2084) Did look into photo card type,....even went so far as to get one,.........but upon checking it, fould no motorcycle entitlement :???,...I passed that one before car one.......contacted them to be told, 'we've no record of you passing bike test,.....so it can't be put on card',..........it went quiet on the other end of phone when I stated the paper licence I had in front of me DID give me FULL motorcycle entitlement.............needless to say, they dictated they were right, and whilst they didn't actually say I was wrong..........:argh:. I decided to not bother with said card one, and am quite happy with my (now repaired and looked after)paper one. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevpol Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Whilst on the subject of driving licenses, it you have type 2 NIDDM diabeties you have to inform the DVLA Swansea. This was not a requirement before unless you were a Type ! requiring insulin. Being a type 2 I asked the Diabeties Association as it had appeared on a list of medical conditions on the DVLA's license application booklet that they have to be informed about, something like 20 plus categories. They knew nothing about it as the Diabeties Association had niether been consulted or informed of this requirement. If the DVLA's medical officer decides to withdraw your license you CANNOT appeal. It states this fact on the letter you get back from the DVLA. Get a copy of the booklet you could have a condition that is listed. The Swansea 'Black shirts' are watching you! Phil P Phil. I am type 2, but diet controlled, is that on list? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Weird, I know a couple of PCV drivers with type two. and we have to have a medical every 5 years to 60 and yearly after that, they get through OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Don't forget if you get any points you will have to surrender your old paper licence... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil P Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Sorry Chevpol, I didn't check this thread after posting. I don't think it actually states wether it is by medication or diet control. Mine is low level of medication. Basically one tablet in a morning and diet. It only said diabeties types 1 & 2. We have been hunting round for the booklet but can't find it. It may be on 'tinternet' under driving licences from the DVLA. Phil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) Not widely known, but came up at my work, the current two part driving licence which consists of the pink photocard and the green paper slip are starting to expire, as it is 10 Years since the introduction of the new licence. It is an offence to drive with an expired licence, as it is to drive with a licence registered to the wrong address, and it will require renewal. DVLA are sending out reminders to renew two months before the event, but the sting is.......it will cost you 20 quid (Money grabbing scumbags!). So far only a small number of people have been affected, but next year will see large numbers of licences expiring. If you have a look at the pink photo part of the licence, the expiry is marked on it in tiny print, dont be confused with the date when you turn 70! MOD EDIT: THREADS MERGED Edited May 13, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 July 2010 for me... Did you know the BBC Watchdog programme are having a go at the DVLA for the number of total screw-ups they make every year that affect peoples livelihoods?? Apparenly they (DVLA) have no on to answer to such as an Ombusdman and if they do screw up there is no right of appeal..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Batchelor Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I lost my paper part so had to send off for a replacement (you get a new paper and card), and pay for the priviledge, fair enough. But rather than being valid for a further 10yrs it still has the same expiry date as the old one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I lost my paper part so had to send off for a replacement (you get a new paper and card), and pay for the priviledge, fair enough. But rather than being valid for a further 10yrs it still has the same expiry date as the old one.... It's not ten years from the licence issue, it's ten years from them issuing a license with a new photo. If you sent off the form D2 for a replacement licence with a new photo and £20 attached (on top of the replacement fee) you would have added 10 years onto your validity. I just sent mine off to add a provisional category and they reprinted my photocard - so it's valid from about a week ago but still has the same photo expiry date. The D2 is a stupidly hard form to understand because it's used for so many different things, so it probably wasn't obvious. If you're going to take a test for an extra category at any point then it's probably easiest to send them a new photo when you send your license in - I'm going to update my photo when I eventually get my C entitlement just so I can forget about it for a while. :argh: Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Did you know the BBC Watchdog programme are having a go at the DVLA for the number of total screw-ups they make every year that affect peoples livelihoods?? Saw that, they had a load of errors from when people sent in their licenses to change their address, ranging from a bike license being 'lost', to a car license mysteriously turning into a bike license, to someone gaining category H at random! If only they knew how much effort we went to to get these in the first place :argh: Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I know - I lost my "H" and Bike licenses that way back in the Eighties. They pulled the license when I was diagnosed with epilepsy and, fair enough, took the HGV (all 3) and PSV parts off when it came back. But the "H" and Bike parts went too and no matter what was said they refused to reinstate them. I even got the old examiner from 215 to write a letter but, as with taxing the OT, they just parroted the offical party line - "You will have to retake the test if you want them back". As you can see - my history of relationships with DVLA and VOSA is a far from happy one!!! :argh: :argh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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