1942 Commer Q2 30cwt Restoration.

[Rootes75]

I have a couple of Parts Lists and Handbooks for wartime Q4's and you're right Richard, they all list the chassis numbers of the vehicles in that particular contract, I also have a Q2 15cwt book that is the same. As of yet, I have found no Q2 30cwt books at all, I am always on the lookout.

So where did you find this list?

[Richard Farrant]

15 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

I have a couple of Parts Lists and Handbooks for wartime Q4's and you're right Richard, they all list the chassis numbers of the vehicles in that particular contract, I also have a Q2 15cwt book that is the same. As of yet, I have found no Q2 30cwt books at all, I am always on the lookout.

So where did you find this list?

I was given some photocopies of a list of Rootes contacts for war period, it was originally typed with dates and amendments written in, it will not scan as it has obviously been copied before and rather feint. I picked out the Q2 contracts for you and typed the above list. Dates can be vague as there is date of contract and date of completion, which sometimes can be a long time after the first date.

[Rootes75]

We had a very good weekend, re-fitted the securing wire on the flywheel bolts, that was a very tedious job. 

Next we re-fitted the clutch which was straightforward as we have an alignment tool. Then with the use of our large engine crane we lifted the gearbox back into place, this is quite difficult as the gear tower fouls the underside of the seat floor in the cab so the gearbox has to be coaxed in at an angle before the splines engage. Well, it took a while but it was all done safely.

Then, we re-fitted the starter motor and the propshaft, next weekend it will be connecting all the smaller levers / cables etc and filling the gearbox with oil in readiness to see how she now starts with the new starter ring fitted.

It has been a lot of work but I am so glad we decided to do it now rather than suffer the consequences later.

[67burwood]

Reminds me of changing the gearbox on my Land Rover lifting it through the cab.
It will make a massive difference with the new starter ring👍

[Rootes75]

So, the gearbox is back in an topped up with fresh SAE140 and everything is re-connected. Its strange how long jobs like fitting all the split pins back in the drivetrain actually take!

Next issue, we need to replace the drive pinion on the starter motor but we have not stripped a starter with this drive sleeve type before.

We are having issues trying to remove the locking pin, shown below to the left of the sleeve.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Rootes75

[Richard Farrant]

See if this helps;

https://www.mg-cars.org.uk/imgytr/pdf/lucascourse2.pdf

[Rootes75]

Thank you Richard, scrolling down it explains the type and now I know from page 21 that mine is an 'RE' Drive type.

[Richard Farrant]

If you press back the plate on the end against the spring inside you can then pull the pin out, it has a step on it to hold it in.

[Rootes75]

All done Richard, thanks for the advice. It was simply that it had been in there so long and didn't help that the pin looks to have taken quite a beating in the past.

Its ready to fit now but I have to wait till next weekend to get back down the yard.

[Rootes75]

Refitted the starter this morning, my word she now sounds smooth on start up.

Well pleased with the result and although its been a lot of work its well worth it when you hear the difference.

[Rootes75]

A brief update, the Commer starts fine now with the new starter ring fitted but we are still having a lot of problems with her running.

She will only start on full choke, that's even when warm. Then she will tick over with the choke pushed back in but as soon as you give her some throttle she back fires a couple times and the engine dies.

We have checked the timing again and that is fine, the air retard on the distributor is also working. We have tried her with the original carb and a brand new carb and we have the same result. Our thinking at the moment is that we have an air leak somewhere so a vacuum test may be the next move.

[David Herbert]

I think that you must have a fairly big vacuum leak into the inlet manifold or possibly an inlet valve stuck open giving the same effect.

David

 

[Rootes75]

The original carb removed yesterday for a clean up.

 

 

[67burwood]

Try spraying brake cleaner around the inlet manifold gasket and carb gasket when it’s at idle, if there’s a leak the engine idle will change. 

[Richard Farrant]

If it is the manifold it could be that the exhaust manifold has bowed and now holding the inlet off, these two are bolted together like Bedford and Austin. A common problem on rebuilds. If you have the exhaust manifold faced off true you need to make sure the inlet will be in line once bolted together, often takes a bit of fettling to achieve this.

[Rootes75]

Well, this morning we tried the Commer and she wouldn't start at all, fired a couple of brief moments but nothing more.

So, back to basics. We reset the timing, she was a fraction out. We re-checked all the HT leads were connected in the dizzy. Then we checked the plugs for a spark, it was there but not very good.

We then checked the contacts for a spark, it was awful and not consistent. So we cleaned and reset the points and cleaned all of the plugs. We then checked for a spark and it was much much stronger. But, trying to start her again there was absolutely nothing, she didn't fire once.

We checked the carb and there is plenty of fuel getting in there, so much so that she kept flooding.

We are left scratching our heads again.

[Citroman]

Where is your timing set on? On my 1925 Citroen i ran into the same problems as you mention. It turned out that the timing marks on the flywheel were completly off. Probably someone put on the flywheel of another car.  And flooding carbs are not ok too, check your needle valve.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Citroman

[Richard Farrant]

1 hour ago, Rootes75 said:

Well, this morning we tried the Commer and she wouldn't start at all, fired a couple of brief moments but nothing more.

So, back to basics. We reset the timing, she was a fraction out. We re-checked all the HT leads were connected in the dizzy. Then we checked the plugs for a spark, it was there but not very good.

 

Could be rotor arm going to earth, did you try the test of holding the HT lead from coil over the rotor arm to see if there was a spark when you spun the engine over? If you do get a spark jumping to the rotor arm, then it is knackered (a trade term).

[Rootes75]

We didn't try that Richard, but we are heading down again in the next couple days so will try that.

[Rootes75]

33 minutes ago, Citroman said:

Where is your timing set on? On my 1925 Citroen i ran into the same problems as you mention. It turned out that the timing marks on the flywheel were completly off. Probably someone put on the flywheel of another car.  And flooding carbs are not ok too, check your needle valve.

There are two marks on the starting pulley, and two on the block. Tdc is marked on the block but with the radiator in place you cant see that, so at 90 degrees to that is another white line. The pulley has two marks at 90 degrees to each other that correspond. When tdc is attained all the marks will line up, obviously set like that they can only line up in that position.

We turned her over with number 1 plug out on the compression stroke and when the piston was at the top of the stroke we noted the timing marks, they all lined up. Then we took the dizzy cap off and noted that the rotor arm at that point was under the HT of number 1 plug.

[Citroman]

OK, it was worth a try. Good luck with finding the cause of the problem.

[Rootes75]

At last, some joy with the Commer. We sort of went back to basics.

Firstly, we tried to start her again but she simply would not fire and then would flood with lots of fuel coming out the overflow pipe. We also then noticed a small leak on the carb. So, we swapped the carb for a rebuilt spare that we have and we also removed an inspection brass bolt on the manifold to find that was wet inside. We then tried again and this time she did fire but would only run with choke and would pop and bang, she was missing aswel. We took the opportunity with her running to dribble some oil around the manifold to check for leaks, there were none.

So, next step we re-checked the timing, it was correct. We re-checked the contact gap and spark at tge distributor, this was correct. But, upon checking the spark on the plugs, number one was weak, number two non spark and it went like that for the others. So, we checked each HT lead and found some not good connections at all, these were all replaced. We tried the engine again and although better sounding she was still missing and popping back. With her running, one by one we removed a plug lead, we found that removing the HT from plugs 2, 5 and 6 made no difference to the engine running. These are 6 new Champion Plugs, we found 3 NGK plugs on the shelf so cleaned and reset the gaps and fitted these.

Next push on the starter and you would not believe the difference. Smooth start with no choke, engine running like a clock with some minor adjustment to the air mixture on the carb and best of all, give her some throttle and she doesnt cut out or backfire, just a lovely throaty sounding 6 cylinder petrol engine. I took some video which I will upload.

It just goes to show, get the basics right. Small simple problems can really get you scratching your head and set you back.

Onwards now with getting the body off with the bodywork and chassis to rub down and repair.

[Richard Farrant]

Old mechanics saying "99% of fuel problems are electrical" !

[67burwood]

 

17 hours ago, Rootes75 said:

These are 6 new Champion Plugs,

it’s annoying when a new part is duff and it’s always the last thing you look at because you assume it can’t be that, it’s NEW!!

[johann morris]

Nice to see that you sorted the problem. I know that there are those that will disagree but unless I have no option, I only use NGK plugs.

 

Jon