paulbrook Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 3ft tube nowhere near long enough - 6 or even 9 ft required. Lots and lots (and lots) of heat - bright red throughout, a 3/4" socket with 6 not 12 faces (ie the windy hammer type) and definitely not an open ended spanner a very good tommy bar............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I've always found that a tap from a sledgehammer is more effective than any amount of constant pressure. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I've always found that a tap from a sledgehammer is more effective than any amount of constant pressure. Andy I like the style of "Tapping" with a sledge :-D But you are right. Impact is always better especially with rusted items, it cracks the crusted bits apart. I would warm the nut up then give it a few sharp cracks with a medium sized hammer on the "corners" rather than the flats. This will help to crack the rust As Paul suggests a 6 sided socket is far better than an open jaw spanner and again strike the socket bar rather than steady pressure. Inch drive air gun would be wonderful. If you have to sacrifice the nut, best way is to run a small drill down one side of it and again at 180 degrees round. then use a chisel to split the drilled holes. A drill is usually easier to control than a grinder, less likely to damage the male thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Have you tried a freezer spray on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
single speed Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 given the length of time this has been going on, i would have said enough's enough by now, and gassed the bloody thing off! If you need specific nuts and bolts made, i can highly recommend Allbolts. www.allbolts.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughman Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 3ft tube nowhere near long enough - 6 or even 9 ft required. Lots and lots (and lots) of heat - bright red throughout, a 3/4" socket with 6 not 12 faces (ie the windy hammer type) and definitely not an open ended spanner a very good tommy bar............. If we could get a bigger extension on it we would. In the photo you may notice the 9 inch wide gap above and to the right. There is another gap about 15 inch wide below to the left that is where I can just fit. Anything longer than 3ft means you find the limits of movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeePig Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 My suggestion too would be the 1" drive, 66mm hex socket, tommy bar and the biggest hammer you can swing in there. What is it that you are actually working on, by the way? trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Is it a Seacow by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughman Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) Yes and it's being a right COW as well. The hopper is like one of these - http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/seacow/h25c883f2#h25c883f2 We have just got 5 of the things and all the hopper doors need to come off to be reskinned. That nut secures one of the doors. 6 doors per wagon. Rust is pushing the old skin and door frame apart pulling rivets through and causing the doors to bind. Not funny when you have 40 tons of stone that can't be got out. One of these days we will get around to our Diesel No 16 (MEF 44 or 70037) Edited September 17, 2014 by ploughman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Herbert Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I'm sorry but I have been reading this thread from the start and I am amazed that this is still a problem. Trying to undo this with anything less than a 1" drive impact grade hexagonal socket and an air powered impact wrench is like trying to take a car engine to pieces with just a 1/4" drive socket set from a market stall. If that fails gas it off. If this belongs to a heritage railway, don't they have tools suitable for working on railway size things ? That open ended spanner that you weakened by grinding metal out of the jaws is only relevant once you get the nuts freed off and then you can use it for nipping them up prior to tightening them properly with said impact wrench. If you absolutely must use an open ender find a really heavy one that is bigger than you need (if you don't have the right size) and use a bit of scrap to reduce the size. That way you have the greater strength of the bigger spanner and you don't scrap a small one. Also is this nut really 66mm AF ? Surely a wagon of that age would be an inch size. Whatever size it is the socket needs to be as good a fit as possible and as has been said before it needs to be a hexagonal one, not a bi-hex 12 pointed one. There is no way that you can even tighten this by hand with less than 6' of leverage, so it is certanly not going to undo with 2' when it is rusted on. OK, I've had my rant, I'll go back in the shaddows again. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruxy Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Well , so a Seacow . Actually - I served my time as a Fitter & Turner at BR Shildon 1965 to 1971 (then I joined P&O Lines) , did my 3 months on Four Road (Repair Shop) and 6 months in the New Repair Shop - where Seacow and similar odd-bods were seen to. So , yes - I have experience of Seacow , I did tell you how it was done - it would have been off in a crack (esp. on nightshift) - reason PBR (payment by results , every job had been work-study , and I can tell you now - a chargehand would not have been called in for a "extra-work ticket" . Further IIRC the only time pneumatic gear was ever used was on Presflow . OK, I've had my rant, I'll go back in the shaddows again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulob1 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 easy for us to bemoan his gear...and I stripped my first motorbike with a tool set i bought from the market stall, i still have it and it is still in use... but got to say it doesnt look that bad and it you have heated it until it is dead then quoshed it a few times that will usually free it up... but a big 6' bar should be used carfully as it could twist of the stud if not careful...cant be a difficult repair to fix it though but I am assuming tools and engineerings skills are in short supply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 easy for us to bemoan his gear...and I stripped my first motorbike with a tool set i bought from the market stall, i still have it and it is still in use... ... First tool kit etc, given me an idea for a new thread about longest serving tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughman Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) The nut lost today. Glad I didn't resort to excess violence or heat as what was thought to be a bolt turned out to be a Backplate with a collar through it and the bulkhead steelwork, then the collar had a 56mm pin inserted into it with a locating stud slotted into the bracket through which the pin passed to be secured by the 66mm nut and split pin. Now that we know what is involved, things should move along a lot faster. Thanks for the advice and tips as well as the odd kick. Edited September 21, 2014 by ploughman Add photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 The nut lost today. Glad I didn't resort to excess violence or heat as what was thought to be a bolt turned out to be a Backplate with a collar through it and the bulkhead steelwork, then the collar had a 56mm pin inserted into it with a locating stud slotted into the bracket through which the pin passed to be secured by the 66mm nut and split pin. Now that we know what is involved, things should move along a lot faster. Thanks for the advice and tips as well as the odd kick. Well done Bryan, Better to err on the side of caution until you can see the whole picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billruston Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Gas ax always does the trick for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryH57 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Did you win in the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kw573 Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 I've just found this thread. The horse may have bolted, but another technique that I have had good results with on ferrous jobs is to violently quench the red-hot nut. It seems this sharp shrinkage after expansion breaks all the holds of the rusty threads. Either way, every job is slightly different and needs it's own special approach. I get great satisfaction from getting stuff apart without destroying it. So, did you win in the end? Have a nice day. Sam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughman Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Did you win in the end? Project still ongoing. Other work continuing and not just working on these nuts. So far we have a draw. 3 bolts undone and 3 Cut. Friday was a sod. After giving the days nut its usual bit of TLC, Needle gun, Wire brush, Hammering, Heating and liberal doses of WD40. Put the windy gun on the job and after a few minutes we had a bit of movement. Not a lot initially, reversed the gun then a quick squirt of WD then forward again. More movement, eventually after about 3 full turns of the nut we had a reasonable gap appearing. The COW must have then thought thats it time to get my revenge and the shaft then started spinning with the nut on. That means that the retaining stud on the shaft had sheared. Only thing now was to cut the shaft as no other way to extract it. Managed to fit the disc cutter in rather than use the gas. We have had new Nut and Pin sets priced up at approx £150 each. 9 nut and pin sets per vehicle and 5 vehicles to do. So if we can extract without cutting it sure will save quite a bit of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Would it be cheaper to hire (better still, borrow) a hydraulic nut splitter and just sacrifice the nuts without the risk to the pins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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