ian2b Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Degsy having a dig at a Mod again, nothing new there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Degsy having a dig at a Mod again, nothing new there. Yes Ian it gets a bit boring in the end:yawn: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I can't quite see where Enigma has been specifically singled out for a slagging off, Degsy - other than by putting himself forward (all credit to you, Olaf) as an example of why people might need to take advantage of this opportunity (or loophole if you like) to obtain vehicular entry. In fact Enigma himself has further encouraged the debate by pushing people to argue their case against these civi type vehicles. To cut to it - there should be a better way for folk like Enigma, who are very active in the living history side of the hobby as well as running a military vehicle, to be able to join in the show without necessarily having to bring along an old MV. If anyone should be allowed to be an integral part of the show, he should by virtue of his track record (have a look at some of his exploits as described in past pages of this forum). Post 237 offered one obvious solution, suggesting also that civi vehicles should be parked in an appropriate area. I find the prominent positioning of these civi vehicles dilutes the military vehicle / machine presence somewhat, although it seemed to me in my brief walk around that people had gone to much more trouble to camouflage civi vehicles, caravans and tents this year. How about we limit further discussion on this particular aspect to constructive ideas? Was there an opportunity for individuals dressed in appropriate clothing / uniform to camp with a military style tent within the display fields at this year's show - other than being part of a larger display / group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 (edited) The very idea of a forum is frank and open discussion, and I'm glad to see it going on. Credit due. I don't think anyone is getting personal,(with Olaf that is) but it is a valid argument. Edited July 26, 2013 by Rick W Peas in a pod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted July 26, 2013 Author Share Posted July 26, 2013 Enigma wasn't singled out If any one thinks that Tony they are wrong, it's simple, the organisers had a chance with a new show to stomp on this, they didn't. The problem lays with them, if they are happy to nvite the vehicles such as Olaf's and others then there is little that will change.. I will think seriously about taking any military kit next year, even with the very high cost of public camping it will work out cheaper and far less hassle .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Exactly the comments I expected from Lee and Ian but I don't remember this subject coming up in previous years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Playing devils advocate a second - what about the black fleet that operated out of the DoY and other barracks areas in the UK in the Seventies and Eighties - possibly still doing so for all I know now? Back then it was Ford Escort estates, Transits and Cortinas, Austin 1800's and Landcrabs and so forth that had Military reg nums but no contract plate, only the manufacturers?? Very hard to prove their heritage but they were genuine MV's nonetheless...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightweight Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 I had long ago stopped commenting on this sort of thread, but there is only so much smugness, arrogance and even downright rudeness a guy can take. Brace yourselves people, this may come as a shock to some of you. Owning a military vehicle does not make you any better, more special or more important than anybody else. You can't decide what members of the public should or should not see at the W&PR because - and here's the clincher - you are members of the public, you just own an ex-military vehicle (or don't)! If you don't want to see civvie vehicles, disguised or otherwise, at a show then organise your own show and tell the owners of them that they are not welcome. That way you can sit in a cloud of your own sense of self importance while you pat yourself on the back for being so immeasurably greater than the rest of the world, who will no doubt stay away in droves. As far as I'm concerned, Rex organises the show, and if he either doesn't care or chooses to ignore it then thats good enough for me and it should be good enough for you. I'm sure he would extend the same courtesy to you and me were we to organise an event (which we won't of course, because it's bloody hard work). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 The Royal Navy bought bog standard Land Rover 2a and 3 station wagons. I drove an 'Official' Nissan Primera. Wether you like it or not the Military and other official para military units use civillian vehicles. MODPlod use everything from Discoverys through Citreons to Isuzu and Subaru. So did Military Police. The point is what makes them military? The paint work! The show organisers CHOOSE to have fun fairs, so what's military about that? You are there so the organisers can make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.303fan Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 can a friend of Olaf put him on his entry form as support vehicle? Olaf puts his tent in the military vehicle section, his car stays in the designated area. all happy as we need more peace on this section of forum. we were in kitchener field, a 101fc drove in from holland, a 109s3 struggled in from lincolnshire. great fun, but if we did not split the bill between 5 to 6 people, we cant afford it, cheers, Arjan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 can a friend of Olaf put him on his entry form as support vehicle?Olaf puts his tent in the military vehicle section, his car stays in the designated area. all happy as we need more peace on this section of forum. we were in kitchener field, a 101fc drove in from holland, a 109s3 struggled in from lincolnshire. great fun, but if we did not split the bill between 5 to 6 people, we cant afford it, cheers, Arjan I think he could have it as a support vehicle so the problem wouldn't exist, its been done before at other events. I've done it to be more precise at a show in the North West of England (it was an RB44 as a support vehicle so not civvy). Kitchners field seems to be the new Medway with its mix of civvy and military vehicles. Its the first year teething troubles put it down to experience and look forward to next rears event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Thanks for all replys, PM's and advice. I may just throw a camonet over the car like all those white caravans and campers. Wouldn't want to upset anybody. BTW, like on both A&E's my car IS my tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 There again they put the "Church of Scientology" in a prominent position so I guess anything goes at the W&P Show these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) I had long ago stopped commenting on this sort of thread, but there is only so much smugness, arrogance and even downright rudeness a guy can take. Brace yourselves people, this may come as a shock to some of you. Owning a military vehicle does not make you any better, more special or more important than anybody else. You can't decide what members of the public should or should not see at the W&PR because - and here's the clincher - you are members of the public, you just own an ex-military vehicle (or don't)! If you don't want to see civvie vehicles, disguised or otherwise, at a show then organise your own show and tell the owners of them that they are not welcome. That way you can sit in a cloud of your own sense of self importance while you pat yourself on the back for being so immeasurably greater than the rest of the world, who will no doubt stay away in droves. As far as I'm concerned, Rex organises the show, and if he either doesn't care or chooses to ignore it then thats good enough for me and it should be good enough for you. I'm sure he would extend the same courtesy to you and me were we to organise an event (which we won't of course, because it's bloody hard work). OK I'll take the bait :cool2: You are most welcome to your opinion, but having expressed it with so much - venom? - here's a response. I think your post gives entirely the wrong impression of what W&P is all about. I went on Saturday as a MOP - one of the great unwashed (although I was one of the Obluted Ones 'cos I took the precaution of stopping at the local Services before entering the carpark thanks to the warnings posted on here :cheesy:), and I went - not to see loads of MOP - but to see an amazing collection of military vehicles, owners and associated stalls selling all manner of MV related stuff. I avoided the market day stalls and the funfair, although I can fully appreciate (as I've explained earlier) why they are there, because they are something I could see any day of the week if I chose. I paid my daily due (£18.50) for the privilege without complaint, and appreciate that it was relatively painless for me but not necessarily for others. The people who brought the displays and vehicles and stalls were special to me, because they were the sole reason I and some of the other MOP went, and they were precisely what made the show what is was. They had obviously expended much money and time to be there. I didn't pay good money to walk around a field of MVs diluted by civvi cars, tents, transport etc, but I can appreciate that not everyone can afford one of Jack's small wall tents or a high density cammo net. Incidentally, I say some MOP because I could not believe how rapidly they were leaving after around 2pm - obviously not enough to keep them entertained, or they had little or no interest in MVs in the first place? As for your so-called public who had brought displays and vehicles - their effort may have been a bit diluted by some teething troubles with the show layout - but no doubt these could not be anticipated and sorted in the reduced time available for show planning on the new venue - which must have been a herculean task - and which having now come to light are bound to be resolved for a future show. I have always been under the impression that the show was and is laid on for the people who bring their displays and vehicles to meet up from all around the country and continent to share a week or a few days together, with the additional benefit of making it all accessible to those MOP who want to see the spectacle up close and further their interest in things MV / military - after all most MV owners / re-enactors like to share their passion with interested MOP. Rex Cadman has run with the challenge of laying on a successful show for both the MV community and for the MOP who want to experience the spectacle, and as far as I can make out anything he organises is done to try to make it a great week for those who wish to attend in a display / participation capacity, and to get enough MOP through the gates to make it financially successful. I wouldn't want to try to achieve what he has, but it wouldn't stop me from suggesting ways it could be better. But reading your post Lightweight made me wonder (just for a moment) if I had got completely the wrong end of the stick. As I suggested in post 253 the problem seems to be how to enable people in Enigma's position (I assume he posed all week in appropriate military gear and not MOP T shirt, shorts and ice cream?) to participate in the spectacle without having to camp in the back of a civvy car in the MV display areas. There's got to be a neat solution to that which will keep everyone happy? Edited July 27, 2013 by N.O.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gas 44 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I had long ago stopped commenting on this sort of thread, but there is only so much smugness, arrogance and even downright rudeness a guy can take. Brace yourselves people, this may come as a shock to some of you. Owning a military vehicle does not make you any better, more special or more important than anybody else. You can't decide what members of the public should or should not see at the W&PR because - and here's the clincher - you are members of the public, you just own an ex-military vehicle (or don't)! If you don't want to see civvie vehicles, disguised or otherwise, at a show then organise your own show and tell the owners of them that they are not welcome. That way you can sit in a cloud of your own sense of self importance while you pat yourself on the back for being so immeasurably greater than the rest of the world, who will no doubt stay away in droves. As far as I'm concerned, Rex organises the show, and if he either doesn't care or chooses to ignore it then thats good enough for me and it should be good enough for you. I'm sure he would extend the same courtesy to you and me were we to organise an event (which we won't of course, because it's bloody hard work). Ok I'll run with this too. At NO stage have I suggested that MV owners are any better (if you think thats the case get yourself down to specsavers) I am not deciding what MOP should or should not see. I have also not said that I dont want to see civvy vehicles. Please read my first post and if possible try to understand the plain english. Another member brought the cost issue to the party, to which I commented on,if you can please read the 2 (two) questions I asked after that post. The other member and I have pm'd....kissed and made up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 As Lee has said before, if you have any issues with the way the show is run you need to address them to the show organisers. Having a punch up on this forum doesn't get anyone anywhere. We all go to the show for our own reasons, if you don't like it then don't go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 having attended war and p show from mon till sun camping in haigs field and reading this thread ,nearly all points made negative and positive are fair ,so really lightweights comments are a little bit harsh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick W Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 As Lee has said before, if you have any issues with the way the show is run you need to address them to the show organisers. Having a punch up on this forum doesn't get anyone anywhere. We all go to the show for our own reasons, if you don't like it then don't go.. It's not a punch up, it's a lively discussion and debate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Behave... Bernard - I will keep an eye out for Tim next year - just in case he kicks off about the Rugged one :coffee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff66 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 agreed threads like this are perfect to be discussed on a forum like this:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Bernard - I will keep an eye out for Tim next year - just in case he kicks off about the Rugged one :coffee: At last.......that took much longer to appear than I expected...:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Some photos from Sunday Things were a tad dusty and more spread out at the end of the week, but the vehicles were still cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Not as good as my normal photos - I was getting to grips with a new camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Child Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 At last.......that took much longer to appear than I expected...:-D here you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 When I asked "Herr Flick" if I could take a photo with him he went totally in character and pointed to me in his typical way. I returned the gesture which made a nice pic. It was a pity I couldn't find a lot of HMVF members. In the old days a lot had their usual spot. Also the size of the terrain made looking a bit difficult. Guess I should have used my scooter more. Didn't realise a forummember was camped next to me. Maybe we can re-introduce the HMVF pennant again? Looking forward to next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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