latest dvla problem

[N.O.S.]

Oh, my.

 

Well either it does - or does not - have a secondary braking system.

 

If it does have one, does it conform to the performance requiremnets (if there are any) of a secondary system. And what exactly are those requirements I wonder?

 

How do you then satisfy DVLA that it does have a suitable secondary system?

 

It might not cost too much (depending if you can find one with an interest in old MVs ) to get a consulting engineer with automotive experience to inspect the vehicle and write a brief repoort to the effect that it does have a secondary system. DVLA would have to think carefully before ignoring this report.

 

There are plenty of independent consulting engineers out there, if only you can find the right one for the job. I found a great local guy to witness pressure tests and issue test certificates for 4 x Scammell air tanks I made up. Not expensive, and it was well worth the ear-bending about the quality of my welding :blush:.

 

Have you tried getting DVLA to reveal the evidence they have used to form their opinion that it doesn't have a secondary system?

 

Best of luck!

Edited November 2, 2010 by N.O.S.

[Marmite!!]

Oh, my.

 

Well either it does - or does not - have a secondary braking system.

 

If it does have one, does it conform to the performance requiremnets (if there are any) of a secondary system. And what exactly are those requirements I wonder?

 

How do you then satisfy DVLA that it does have a suitable secondary system?

 

It might not cost too much (depending if you can find one with an interest in old MVs ) to get a consulting engineer with automotive experience to inspect the vehicle and write a brief repoort to the effect that it does have a secondary system. DVLA would have to think carefully before ignoring this report.

 

There are plenty of independent consulting engineers out there, if only you can find the right one for the job. I found a great local guy to witness pressure tests and issue test certificates for 4 x Scammell air tanks I made up. Not expensive, and it was well worth the ear-bending about the quality of my welding :blush:.

 

Have you tried getting DVLA to reveal the evidence they have used to form their opinion that it doesn't have a secondary system?

 

Best of luck!

As already said in post 45 he can take it for an IVA to get the vehicle checked, if ok I think the DVLA must accept their report. http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/newsandevents/pressreleases/2009pressreleases/29-04-09vosalaunchesnewindividualvehicleapprovalscheme.htm

 

Have you tried getting DVLA to reveal the evidence they have used to form their opinion that it doesn't have a secondary system?

 

If they refuse to disclose you could make a request under the FOI Act

[antar]

Would the Alvis Fighting Vehicles Society not be able to verify that there is a secondary braking system ?

[mike65]

The Stormer Technical Description is still classified as Restricted, unfortunately. My understanding is that DVLA accept the MVT as an organisation competent to inspect vehicles for registration purposes, so ask Terry to go over it and issue an appropriate letter?

 

Andy

 

That makes a lot of sense. Don't let anybody have the technical description and manuals aswell, I suppose. We need to keep these things secret. Some unfriendly people may use them to make their own.

After all make one from the spec sheets is much simpler than buying a used one.

 

Mike

[paulob1]

DVLA only check numbers, cannot imagine why they would be refusing to register it under C & U regs. That is not their responsibility. As it is tracked it is exempt MOT so how in hells name would they be able to tel. My diggers dont have any secondary brakes...well the JCS130 doesnt.

[N.O.S.]

....My diggers dont have any secondary brakes...well the JCS130 doesnt.

 

But you can always drop the bucket into the blacktop - one of the Volvo 4400s at a quarry I was running at the time dropped its rear-mounted ripper tines when a hose burst - the resultant braking was ........ quite spectacular

[mike65]

But you can always drop the bucket into the blacktop

 

What and end up like this:shocked:

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://autozoo.ru/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/tractor_crash_2.JPG&imgrefurl=http://picsdigger.com/keyword/tractor%2520crash/&h=400&w=597&sz=28&tbnid=_mzporIx-ydf2M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=135&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtractor%2Bcrash%2Bpictures&zoom=1&q=tractor+crash+pictures&hl=en&usg=__GnreLD9ydCgwd3amKN7RsJnel0A=&sa=X&ei=BKvRTLSVEpaSjAeR89SIDA&ved=0CB8Q9QEwAA

 

Mike

[Richard Farrant]

My diggers dont have any secondary brakes...well the JCS130 doesnt.

 

Assuming you meant JCB 130, then it does have a secondary brake. The 130 has a Service Brake and a Park brake.

[paulob1]

Hmm richard no I mean JCB JS 130 13 ton tracked digger,

[Richard Farrant]

Hmm richard no I mean JCB JS 130 13 ton tracked digger,

 

JS130 also features service and park brakes. Service is a hydraulic counterbalance valve, and park brake is spring operated and hydraulic released.

 

...........but this is getting away from the subject of Stormer, so I will leave it there :embarrassed:

[paulob1]

yes agree, but you know I will go searching for the brakes as I have never engaged a brake on it in the three years I have owned it. just read the specs and I have no idea where they are.

[Degsy]

As far as I am aware the service brake is automatic to prevent overspeeding on gradients, not sure about the secondary brake as I've never seen a separate hand brake on a tracked excavator, I think it may be operated by what I call the dead man handle which isolates everything and is usually positioned to the left of the drivers seat.

[antar]

Lets stop it here,

 

Construction Equipment comes under completely different legislation,

 

"The Machinery Directive"

[N.O.S.]

Yeah, it's all a load of hydraulics.

[timbo]

If Stormer is same as other CVRT then surely the handbrake brake bands gripping on circumference of main brake discs count as secondary brakes ?

 

Take my foot off the gas and it generally just stops anyway - rarely have to use brakes. Maybe I'm just not going fast enough!!

[TooTallMike]

Xtreme,

 

Does your Stormer have the following 'normal' CVRT braking and steering systems:

 

Hand brake: ratcheting hand brake lever in the driver's compartment tensioning a band around the circumference of one disc on each side of the vehicle, inboard of the final drives.

 

Foot brake: foot pedal in the driver's compartment operating one caliper on each side of the vehicle acting on discs inboard of the final drives, these discs not being the discs used by the steering system.

 

Steering: tillers in the driver's compartment each operating one caliper, one on each side of the vehicle, acting on discs inboard of the final drives, these discs not being the discs used by the braking system.

 

?

 

- MG

[Marmite!!]

In previous posts I explained I was trying to register a cvrt stormer thats within width this is the dvla's latest response

 

 

Dear Sir,

 

Further to our telephone conversation yesterday I have been informed by DfT that the Ministry of Defence have advised that the vehicle in question does not meet the full requirements of the Construction and Use Regulations 1986 and the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 and these vehicle were never intended for on road use.

 

Whilst DfT are unable to provide a full and detailed breakdown of exactly which areas the vehicle does not comply with the Construction and Use Regulations, I have been advised that these vehicles do not meet the full requirements of Regulations 15 & 16 of the Construction and Use Regulations with regard to braking system requirements, secondary braking requirements and having two independent means of braking.

 

If you require more detailed information of how the vehicle does not comply with the Construction and Use requirements, I can only suggest that you contact the manufacturer for further information.

 

I hope this is helpful.

 

Regards

 

I made a FOI request from the DfT asking for any info relating to your Stormer & I asked for copies of any advice they & the DVLA have received from the MOD & their (DVLA/DfT's) reasons for refusal

 

Today I received a reply & copies of the following emails:

 

from the MOD to the DfT 13/09/2010

from the DfT to the DVLA 14/09/2010

from the DVLA to the DfT 19/10/2010

from the DfT to the DVLA 19/10/2010

 

I also recieved a covering letter with a bit more info.. amazing what you can dig up using the FOI Act..

 

As soon as I have scanned them I'll post the info here..

[antarmike]

This will be interesting Lee.....

[Jack]

Fantastic work Lee and look forward to this.

[Marmite!!]

This will be interesting Lee.....

Yep hopefully post tomorrow.. did you get my email Mike re other FOI request??

[antarmike]

Yep hopefully post tomorrow.. did you get my email Mike re other FOI request??

Yes thanks, I got that one. Not sure what I make of the answer.

[TooTallMike]

Still no answer on my braking system question...

 

Lee and Mike, stop talking in code and tell us what info was released :-)

 

- MG

[Marmite!!]

Still no answer on my braking system question...

 

Lee and Mike, stop talking in code and tell us what info was released :-)

 

- MG

Sorry Mike.. had more pressing engagements.. will get Harry to scan in the morning & will post the reply up..

 

I will email you the other one I sent Mike, can't post that one on the forum at the moment as they added a rather long copyright bit... just waiting for them to clarify it before I post..

Still no answer on my braking system question...

Bottom line is the MOD says non compliant..

[xtreme]

sorry missed this post . yes the braking system is as you said and the same as my cvrt sabre and striker .

thanks dan

 

Great work .

Edited November 20, 2010 by xtreme

[antarmike]

Still no answer on my braking system question...

 

Lee and Mike, stop talking in code and tell us what info was released :-)

 

- MG

 

The only E-mail Lee passed to me was very general, in terms of their reponse, I could not see a lot relevent to this problem but of interest they say that there first duty is to ensure that vehicles are registered in accordance with Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (VERA), and that they meet the legal requirements of this act. (Maybe we ought to be looking more closely at VERA, when deciding whether we should be trying to register a vehicle)

 

Lee asked in effect whether the DVLA was looking more closely at the registration of ex military vehicles,

The gist of their reply seems to me to be that there have been instances of vehicles having been modified "on a temporary basis" in order to get them to comply with C and U regs, ( and although not stated in their reply , this seems to imply they are probably aware the vehicles where later returned to their original specification) and that certain vehicles were too wide to comply with regs and DVLA where working with VOSA and had introduced "Certain measures" to ensure that these vehicles do not get registered for road use.

 

 

Lee asked whether there was a change in policy regarding registering Ex Military vehicles, Their response, as I read it, is that there has been no change of policy, but that Local Offices have been told "to seek advice" whenever a non common Marque is presented for registration. (IE a type of vehicle they are not familiar with.)

 

Because of copyright matters I cannot at the moment give their exact response, Lee can do that when he gets clarification, but this is "in outline" how I read what they have said. Please bear in mind my interpretation may not be what they actually mean.

Mike

Edited November 20, 2010 by antarmike