6 X 6 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 In london we can get any licence you want, the bloke in the cafe sells them!! Would you tell him my digital taco keeps jamming in the slot.......I'm not really complaining.....he only charged me a fiver. No problems with the licence so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsk460 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 My advice on this is to get hold of a copy of the 'Stones Justices Manual' and have a read, and a read, and another read- to make sure you are comfortable in making use of the exemption, and that worst case senario you would be happy to defend your use of the exemption in a court of law. Remeber that road traffic Law is not 'joined up' so make sure that you would not fall foul of some other piece of road traffic law. 'Stones' is a very good bedtime read, and it's what the criminal courts use! It contains both the relevent statue law, and also relevent 'case law' Usually it is the case law which is the important part as this gives the legal interpretation on the statute law.... Unfortunatly, the only case law I could find for MPV is 'Creek v Fossett, Eccles & Supertents Ltd, and it was a decision made under previous legislation. Remeber that the likes of DVLA, ect may give you their 'take' on an issue- However, only the courts can decide on the legal interpretation of statute law!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsk460 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 By the way I'm not knocking the MPV thing, as I think in certain cases it is a useful exemption. My only concern is that, 'push come to shove' someone will be the poor sod that will be setting the legal precident when he's up in the 'dock' with the police, or VOSA pushing for the book to be thown! For those really intrested reading on how things can really snowball in a bad way, when being prosecuted on these kind of legal interpretation matters, try getting hold of VOSA v Greenfarms Ltd. Though its not directly relevent to MPV exemption, it does shows how you need to get your facts well in order, or as in this case, things can come come crashing down around you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsk460 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 A pic of my explorer before a little towing job, just so you know I'm a living, breathing, owner driver, and not a 'Boggie-man':stop:- no offence to any boggie-men out there of course!:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapper Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Very good points - thanks for . I've been reading all this thread with a mixture of concern at the warmish temperatures sometimes raised in posts and the actual details. I'm glad I only run a MUTT. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 In london we can get any licence you want, the bloke in the cafe sells them!! Sorry to break the atmosphere but I have to say that that just made me laugh so much...:rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 A pic of my explorer before a little towing job, just so you know I'm a living, breathing, owner driver. Welcome to the forum xsk460. It would be great to see a few more 'photos, and some history, of your magnificent Explorer on the Scammell Explorer thread when you have the time. Cheers. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=7057 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Signals Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 John, this is a friendly forum & no one gives anyone stick, not sure why you are so hostile in your replies? Regards Lee In general I would wholeheartedly agree with you on that assessment of the forum Lee. As an observer, but non contributor, to this debate I can easily see why John has got his hair off based on some of the replies. Bit surprised he didn't flip a bit sooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 In general I would wholeheartedly agree with you on that assessment of the forum Lee. As an observer, but non contributor, to this debate I can easily see why John has got his hair off based on some of the replies. Bit surprised he didn't flip a bit sooner There's no need for anyone to "flip" over anything... as said before it's not in the spirit of this forum.. If anyone has a problem then take it to PM & get it resolved... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 take it to PM & get it resolved... I tried but Gordon said he wasnt interested,he did say why dont you p--s of back to Africa.:whistle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I tried but Gordon said he wasnt interested,he did say why dont you p--s of back to Africa.:whistle: :stop::argh::nono::sweat::-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeEnfield Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I tried but Gordon said he wasnt interested,he did say why dont you p--s of back to Africa.:whistle: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:Ahem...........:cool2: Interesting thread,......................glad I only run an MW...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTIN CROSS Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I can't see the problem with the exemption provided educational material is on display.The legislation is an either/ or. Play bus or mobile exhibition. I have spent ages talking to DVLA ,VOSA and the other Government agencies who deal with this type of thing and have never received a consistent reply! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I can't see the problem with the exemption provided educational material is on display.The legislation is an either/ or. Play bus or mobile exhibition.I have spent ages talking to DVLA ,VOSA and the other Government agencies who deal with this type of thing and have never received a consistent reply! M As said before though, if you have am MV registered as a MPV you can't take it anyhere other than a pre-arranged exhibition... no taking it out for a quick spin etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Having read through this thread, I think it is up to the individual that if he/she wants to take a chance on the wording then it is up to them, if they get caught and done then so be it, but how many od our policeman know all the rules there is. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Having read through this thread, I think it is up to the individual that if he/she wants to take a chance on the wording then it is up to them, if they get caught and done then so be it, but how many od our policeman know all the rules there is. Just a thought Point is Mark is that if they are not complying with the exemption & have an accident then there is no insurance cover, other people then suffer... The wording couldn't be any clearer.. (i) to or from the place where the equipment it carries is to be, or has been, used, or the display or exhibition is to be, or has been, mounted, or (ii) to or from the place where a mechanical defect in the vehicle is to be, or has been, remedied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Have we had any further thoughts on Plating and testing and MPV's and whether an Operators licence is required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Point is Mark is that if they are not complying with the exemption & have an accident then there is no insurance cover, other people then suffer... The wording couldn't be any clearer.. Could not agree more, but that is the chance them morons take, and yes other people do suffer which is a shame, but there are people who will always do it regardlees of the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Have we had any further thoughts on Plating and testing and MPV's and whether an Operators licence is required? Not up on this sort of thing but the exemption is for Non Commercial Bodies only, may drive a mobile project vehicle on behalf of a non-commercial body so would think that an operators licence was not required..:confused: Not sure about plating? The wording: may drive a mobile project vehicle on behalf of a non-commercial body would suggest the exemption is not for individuals but aimed at Charities etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I tend to agree that an operators licence would not be required, even though a goods vehicle is carrying an exhibit. A goods vehicle needs an operators licence when used "for Hire and reward" and "for, or in connection with, a trade or business of the user" However, I cannot see how a tranporter registered as an MPV can avoid plating and testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 However, I cannot see how a tranporter registered as an MPV can avoid plating and testing. I can see no exemption for these from what I've read in the Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) The definition I have for MPV, quoting Motor Vehicles (driving Licences) regulations 1999 is :- Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying a) play or education equipment, or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when staionary is recreational, educational or instructional. from which I understand that the vehicle has to be used to house the equipment. The primary purpose of the vehicle, when staionary, is recreational, educational, or instructional. People enter the MPV to view or use the equipment. If a beaver tail/ low loader is used to take an MV to the show, and the MV is unloaded at the show, then the transporter, when staionary, is parked up empty, and now has no connection with the exhibit, other than having brought it to the site. A parked up, empty transporter, cannot be an MPV. It is stationary, and its primary purpose is none of the things it should be! The MPV has to remain the carrier of the exhibition, instructional material, toys in order to comply with the regs. I believe the whole idea is dead in the water! but I am sure others will see it differently.... Edited February 25, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The definition I have for MPV, quoting Motor Vehicles (driving Licences) regulations 1999 is :-Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying a) play or education equipment, or b) articles required for the puroses of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when staionary is recreational, educational or instructional. This is the extract from the Act. Statutory Instrument1999 No. 2864 ROAD TRAFFIC The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 5) A person who - (a) holds a relevant full licence authorising the driving of vehicles of a class included in category B, other than vehicles in sub-categories B1 or B1 (invalid carriages), (b) has held that licence for an aggregate period of not less than 2 years, and © is aged 21 or over, may drive a mobile project vehicle on behalf of a non-commercial body - (i) to or from the place where the equipment it carries is to be, or has been, used, or the display or exhibition is to be, or has been, mounted, or (ii) to or from the place where a mechanical defect in the vehicle is to be, or has been, remedied, or (iii) in such circumstances that by virtue of paragaph 22 of Schedule 2 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994[/b] the vehicle is not chargeable with duty in respect of its use on public roads, unless by that licence he is authorised to drive only vehicles having automatic transmission, in which case he shall be deemed competent to drive only mobile project vehicles having automatic transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) The definition I have for MPV, quoting Motor Vehicles (driving Licences) regulations 1999 is :-Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying a) play or education equipment, or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when staionary is recreational, educational or instructional. That is from the 17th Edition The traffic officers companion Gordon Wilson BA (law) Msc. As the reference manual a lot of traffic cops use, this definition is the one they will probably have in mind when they stop you..... Edited February 25, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Game set and matched.:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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