ArtistsRifles Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Just because a truck is MOT exempt doesn’t stop people having a voluntary test or at the very least a voluntary brake test. A voluntary brake test is only £18 for a 3 axle HGV or £30 for a 6 axle HGV, that’s not a lot of money for peace of mind and an official bit of paper to produce should you need to. It would be interesting to do a pole to see how many run under MOT exemption & how many bother with a voluntary test. Thats interesting - thanks Grumpy. I wasn't aware that HGV testing stations can or will carry out such voluntary tests!! I've used my own Tapley meter up till now but, as you say in the later post, being able to wave a piece of official paper under the relevant authorities noses would have more weight behind it. I think I'll have a word with the local HGV testing station - I believe it's at Thurrock or Purfleet and see what they say.... (Knowing my luck with anything VOSA related they will take one look at the Stalwart and say "We ain't touching that"!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (Knowing my luck with anything VOSA related they will take one look at the Stalwart and say "We ain't touching that"!) You never know. Expect the testers there probably get bored of seeing run of the mill trucks and would fall be glad of the variety. Tester seemed quite interested when I took my MJ in, said he hadn't been in one since his army days. Don't know if they'd appreciate the entry and exit route to the cab of a stolly, or having to lift the load decks to examine the air lines. I won't even mention the emissions test and backfiring B81's :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARTIN CROSS Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Hi I am trying to go down the motorhome Class IV MOT route and plating at 7500kgs. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpowder44 Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) You beat me to it.Make use of and enjoy your legal rights while you have them. Theres a lot more for you to lose yet. Like working on your own vehicles without training and certification. Ok you laugh its on its way. Whether your driving on a car licence,claiming Mot exempt. towing things around the arena,lifting things in demos.Blowing up things I would suspect the majorty are doing it in the confines of the law. You may not be certificated and you may not get your work checked out by someone who is.This doesnt mean your a danger to every other bugger around you.I believe in Education not Legislation.How many families have been wiped out by the unlicenced ,mot exempt mv owner. Heres a good one for the people who like certificates of competence and rd worthyness.I roar around the solent un licenced untrained at 40 mph weighing 14 tns sinking dingys swamping poor little willy in his rubber ring a real danger to all at sea.Of course i dont, no more than large mv owners do on the rd. For most our life savings are in what we have thats why we educate our selves to be competent. I have some symphathy with BP as i think there are more reasons being voiced against using the legal right and the question is why not use it if it is legal.I believe if you have what you believe to be a understanding of the the law in question,you are not in ignorance of the law,therefor a successful case against you could be in doubt. I would also like to say ,John theres only room for one catweazle on here:stop::rofl: Thanks catweaslr, I have had a lousey day and I read all this and burst out laughing. Feeel much better now, thanks. John Edited February 27, 2009 by Marmite!! quote tags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thats interesting - thanks Grumpy. I wasn't aware that HGV testing stations can or will carry out such voluntary tests!! I've used my own Tapley meter up till now but, as you say in the later post, being able to wave a piece of official paper under the relevant authorities noses would have more weight behind it. I think I'll have a word with the local HGV testing station - I believe it's at Thurrock or Purfleet and see what they say.... (Knowing my luck with anything VOSA related they will take one look at the Stalwart and say "We ain't touching that"!) I think you will be better saving your £18, as I think you will find VOSA will only offer you a Tapley test unless it's just a piece of official paper that you want?. I think you'll find that the drive set up on the Stalwart will not allow a roller brake test, as it will drive itself off the rollers. A friend who is a tester offered to test my Explorer, but could only test the front axle as the rear pairs of wheels are driven by gears in the final drives again driving it off the rollers. Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Thanks catweaslr, I have had a lousey day and I read all this and burst out laughing. Feeel much better now, thanks. John Thats good mate.I have had a lousy couple of days,to be honest they are driving me up the wall.I think the less we educate the authorities :goodidea:about what we are up to the better,they can think of enough restrictions without us giving them ideas.WAlls have Ears.off now down the solent to cause mayhem with my unlicenced,boat. untrained crew, i hear theres a yacht race, we can get in the way , its the best way to learn,as they shout at you .Dont you know rule 45 states blah,blah,blah, no i didnt but i do now.:-Dtry to keep out of the way of the people who have had the training as they cant look outside the envelope,there an absolute menace.:captain:Freedom rules the waves.:yay: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 We need more Catweazles.:coffee: Thanks Jack:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Just because a truck is MOT exempt doesn’t stop people having a voluntary test or at the very least a voluntary brake test. A voluntary brake test is only £18 for a 3 axle HGV or £30 for a 6 axle HGV, that’s not a lot of money for peace of mind and an official bit of paper to produce should you need to. It would be interesting to do a pole to see how many run under MOT exemption & how many bother with a voluntary test. If you are driving something heavy and can't tell if the brakes are working without the benefit of a bit of paper should you really be driving it? If you are on the road, MOT exempt or not, the vehicle still has to be roadworthy. The MOT does not make something roadworthy, servicing does, so if something is exempt from test then the responsibility is with the driver/owner. If you are involved in an accident due to faulty brakes (as that is what we are talking about) it doesn't matter what bits of paper you have. That said, I suspect that the vast majority of us with vintage stuff are more likely to keep it maintained than some tradesman with a ten year old works van that only has a month of MOT left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 If you are driving something heavy and can't tell if the brakes are working without the benefit of a bit of paper should you really be driving it? I agree. Taking steps to periodically demonstrate that you have made some effort to verify braking efficiency is worthwhile in itself. Although this day & age pieces of paper do seem to be important (to other people). I regularly do Tapley tests & although that has a certificate of calibration, these expire. So I go back to first principles for verification. This is based on the Field Standards that comprise the EMER. This sets a standard for braking on a level surface travelling at a constant speed. So this is a test that can be applied without having to have a Tapley meter. For Humber FV1600 (GS, Pig Mk 1 & 2) Field Standard Minimum Stopping distance @ 30mph on level 60.3 ft max Tapley reading 50% Handbrake to hold on slope 1 in 4 (14 degrees) Field Standard Repair & Base Standard Stopping distance @ 20mph on level 22.0 ft max Stopping distance @ 30mph on level 50.2 ft max Stopping distance @ 40mph on level 89.0 ft max Tapley reading 60% Handbrake to hold on slope 1 in 4 (14 degrees) Other vehicles should have these Standards expressed in the relevant EMER Chapter 8 Part 1 (Field Standard) & Part 2 (Base Standard). So if it you have it maintained to the in-service requirement, I think that should demonstrate a degree of diligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) Other vehicles should have these Standards expressed in the relevant EMER Chapter 8 Part 1 (Field Standard) & Part 2 (Base Standard). So if it you have it maintained to the in-service requirement, I think that should demonstrate a degree of diligence. As it can be all easy to 'get used' to your vehicles braking performance, especially if very little hard braking is ever done, these figures would be very useful for a quick check every now and then, like the first time out after a winter lay up. Edited February 28, 2009 by gritineye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) Thinking about the weight difference between a Humber GS & a Pig Mk 2. The standards are the same emphasising that braking efficiency measurement is all about speed & distance. Modern documents were no help but looking in Manual of Driving & Maintenance for Mechanical Vehicles (Wheeled) 1937, I found this, which matches up to the Humber Standards exactly: Of course one always has to remember "thinking distance"! Edited February 28, 2009 by fv1609 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 These self assessed brake test are very likely to be carried out unladen. Stopping distances will be increased when loaded. The VOSA test will apply a load to the vehicle before testing. (I know MOT exempt should be unladen, but how many are in reality?) Whilst a tapley meter and other tests can measure stopping distance, they cannot detect deficiencies in brake balance or any binding. A slightly over adjusted brake or one that is slow to release can cause a build up of heat in the brakes leading to eventual failure. The VOSA brake test will test for rolling resistance and possible brake binding before and after several applications of the brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I do my tests laden which is the most telling, as you make the point about weight. Although a Mk 2 Pig is about twice the weight of a Humber GS, yet their specific Standards are required to be the same. There is no reference in the book to weight of the vehicle itself or laden or not. I assume any vehicle fully laden should be able to demonstrate its braking efficiency is up to the standard of even a lighter vehicle unladen. I can tell if one wheel system is not up to scratch as it can pull the vehicle to one side - the good side. The rear tyres leave different skid marks on the track I use (track = country lane, not as in 'race track'!) After a run I compare the drum temperatures with an IR thermometer gun. Binding is regularly checked when I lubricate the wheel stations, I find it always easier to get the wheel off & get stuck in, as there can be up to 9 lubrication points depending on Humber type. But I take the point not as comprehensive as a roller tester, but more so than the average vehicle that only gets assessed once a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree. Taking steps to periodically demonstrate that you have made some effort to verify braking efficiency is worthwhile in itself. Although this day & age pieces of paper do seem to be important (to other people). I regularly do Tapley tests & although that has a certificate of calibration, these expire. So I go back to first principles for verification. This is based on the Field Standards that comprise the EMER. This sets a standard for braking on a level surface travelling at a constant speed. So this is a test that can be applied without having to have a Tapley meter. For Humber FV1600 (GS, Pig Mk 1 & 2) Field Standard Minimum Stopping distance @ 30mph on level 60.3 ft max Tapley reading 50% Handbrake to hold on slope 1 in 4 (14 degrees) Field Standard Repair & Base Standard Stopping distance @ 20mph on level 22.0 ft max Stopping distance @ 30mph on level 50.2 ft max Stopping distance @ 40mph on level 89.0 ft max Tapley reading 60% Handbrake to hold on slope 1 in 4 (14 degrees) Other vehicles should have these Standards expressed in the relevant EMER Chapter 8 Part 1 (Field Standard) & Part 2 (Base Standard). So if it you have it maintained to the in-service requirement, I think that should demonstrate a degree of diligence. Would you happen to have these figures for the Mk 2 Stalwart at all Clive?? I've checked the EMER copies I have here and non refer to this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVRT Del Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 This post seems to cover a wide range of question/problems for owners. I have had personal experience in dealing with both VOSA and DVLA(some times very hard to get same answer???). Looking at the MPV in theory it seems THAT for some might be the way forward but mostly i think it would cause more problems?, MOT exempt This has been something i have looked into very closely, my father has a truck and living van and travels to stem shows all over, His truck comes under the MOT exempt rule due to age. he has been doing this on a car license since i was a small boy, his truck is inspected by myself a commercial mechanic. i look after a few vintage vehicles and steam engine low loaders purely from a safety point. Unfortunately due to the way the world is going regarding safety its going to be the shows that suffer. Unfortunately there are some that use the MOT exempt as a way of saving money i have seem vehicles at shows that don't get maintained. I have personal experience with shows that i am involved with, seeing vehicles that shouldn't move. This is a question to all If i own a Aec militant and wish to recover something can i do this on a classic military vehicle insurance policy??? AS WE ALL ON HE LIKE DOING WHAT WE DO ITS UP TO US TO MAKE OUR VEHICLES AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE regardless of cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Aren't we drfifting way off topic here lads, we were talking about MPV's and whether we can use that classifaication, either to get an MV to a show, on a Transporter classified as an MPV , or take an MV to a show, on its wheels, as an MPV itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Thinking about the weight difference between a Humber GS & a Pig Mk 2. The standards are the same emphasising that braking efficiency measurement is all about speed & distance. Modern documents were no help but looking in Manual of Driving & Maintenance for Mechanical Vehicles (Wheeled) 1937, I found this, which matches up to the Humber Standards exactly: Of course one always has to remember "thinking distance"! Thats a top piece of information to know Clive, infact, its one of the most useful things posted in a while, as it applies to any vehicle :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) Aren't we drfifting way off topic here lads, Back on topic. do the members think suitably equiped internally it would meet the criteria.cheers cw. Edited February 28, 2009 by Marmite!! quote tags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Elsdon Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Back on topic.do the members think suitably equiped internally it would meet the criteria.cheers cw. That is brilliant! Does it stop ok or does it use airbrakes :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Anyone remember the 'Jaffa' orange based on a mini? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 'fraid so :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Anyone remember the 'Jaffa' orange based on a mini? Yes its on display at Beaulieu, squeezed in the corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Anyone remember the 'Jaffa' orange based on a mini? Yes, but what has it to do with MPV's:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) I grew up in Berkhamsted, where the Outspam's were based, I can't remeber how many there were, (about 10?? off) but I'd see them every day! Clearly nothing to do with MPV, Outspam were selling from them, so clearly they were being ran by a profit making company, and they could be driven on a car licence anyway. Lets get back to MPV's How can a transporter be an MPV if if unloaded at a show? It has no educational / instructional / recreational purpose when stationary, if it is parked up empty somewhere so I can't see how it can be an MPV, Does anyone want to continue to defend the postion that a transporter, can be an MPV, unless it remains permanently loaded with the MPV at a show, and is that how we really want to see MV's displayed?? Edited March 1, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Yes, but what has it to do with MPV's:confused: Not a lot but its less boring and got responses.if we are going back to having to stick strictly to the topic without wandering off every now and then this forum will lose the best advantage it has over the others. My picture poses a genuine question about MPV,yet yourself and Antar havnt an opinion and Mike wants to go back in the courtroom and start the beavertail vs the ministry saga.Lifes to short off down the imperial war musuem before i say something i regret:nono::-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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