antarmike Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I reckon it probably needs a PPL as the bare minimum to drive it CW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I grew up in Berkhamsted, where the Outspam's were based, I can't remeber how many there were, (about 10?? off) but I'd see them every day! Clearly nothing to do with MPV, Outspam were selling from them, so clearly they were being ran by a profit making company, and they could be driven on a car licence anyway. Lets get back to MPV's How can a transporter be an MPV if if unloaded at a show? It has no educational / instructional / recreational purpose when stationary, if it is parked up empty somewhere so I can't see how it can be an MPV, Does anyone want to continue to defend the postion that a transporter, can be an MPV, unless it remains permanently loaded with the MPV at a show, and is that how we really want to see MV's displayed?? Playing Devils Advocate for a mo' - what if the transporter has permanently fixed information panels along the sides relating to the particular MV being carried so that the MV can be properly considered as a part of the exhibit. Thus the transporter when parked up would be a purely static exhibit and the MV once removed would be once of the related exhibits. Would this meet the criteria??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Back on topic.do the members think suitably equiped internally it would meet the criteria.cheers cw. I think it certainly would if it still had it's internals fitted to demonstrate vintage air travel etc, but I'm afraid it is a motorhome, spot the reg nos on both! http://www.redbubble.com/people/muz2142/art/686454-3-me-109-and-dakota Cool or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) "Artists Rifles", It possibly may do, but in reality, generally MV shows have MV only areas, and often the organisers want the whole area to be military in nature. Often requiring all tentage to be of military origin, with modern caravan, Cars etc, well out of the area. If anyone thinks that they can use a transporter as an MV, at some shows but at others he has to park in alow loader/ trnsporter park, or next to living acoomodation in a non public access area, then I suppose it is possible, then no. In every case the loader has to be fulfilling an instructional/ educatiuonal role when stationary. I suppose you could take a slide and a trampline with you, and when you have unloaded your Mv, it becomes recreatinal, as a free , non profit making Play bus, but what about insurance, and who is going to mind the kids? There are all sorts of possibilities, but I am suggesting, seeing as the transporter will need testing, will need to have an MPV role at all shows, Cannot be used to take a vehicle to the start of a road run, cannot be used at any other time for hire / reward, carrying general cargo, or taking or making delivery of an MV following a sale or purchase, do all the restrictions and limitations make it viable. Will there always be a situation were organisers are happy finding room for a modern lorry, carrying a few boards, in a public area of the field, and if the idea catches on they may be nearly as many of these at a show, as there are exhibits? I am suggesting it isn't as straightforward as some have said, to use a transporter as an MPV. Edited March 1, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think it certainly would if it still had it's internals fitted to demonstrate vintage air travel etc, but I'm afraid it is a motorhome, spot the reg nos on both! http://www.redbubble.com/people/muz2142/art/686454-3-me-109-and-dakota Cool or what? Thats great Bernard ,good find.cheers Cw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 "Artists Rifles", It possibly may do, but in reality, generally MV shows have MV only areas, and often the organisers want the whole area to be military in nature. Often requiring all tentage to be of military origin, with modern caravan, Cars etc, well out of the area. If anyone thinks that they can use a transporter as an MV, at some shows but at others he has to park in alow loader/ trnsporter park, or next to living acoomodation in a non public access area, then I suppose it is possible, then no. In every case the loader has to be fulfilling an instructional/ educatiuonal role when stationary. I suppose you could take a slide and a trampline with you, and when you have unloaded your Mv, it becomes recreatinal, as a free , non profit making Play bus, but what about insurance, and who is going to mind the kids? There are all sorts of possibilities, but I am suggesting, seeing as the transporter will need testing, will need to have an MPV role at all shows, Cannot be used to take a vehicle to the start of a road run, cannot be used at any other time for hire / reward, carrying general cargo, or taking or making delivery of an MV following a sale or purchase, do all the restrictions and limitations make it viable. Will there always be a situation were organisers are happy finding room for a modern lorry, carrying a few boards, in a public area of the field, and if the idea catches on they may be nearly as many of these at a show, as there are exhibits? I am suggesting it isn't as straightforward as some have said, to use a transporter as an MPV. Again with the Devils Advocate hat on - and for the shows aspect only what if the transporter vehicle were something like a Foden DROPS or a Bedford TM - both "Green Machines" in their own right respectively???? For the road runs etc - I agree with you and if you are lucky enough to live within reasonable commute of a particular show. there's no reason why not to drive the MV. Howabout some one living up North who wants to attend, say W&P - driving a halftrack (this being the type of MV in the initial discussions here) the length of the country isn't really a practicable idea, If we take Edinburgh as the start point thats a return trip of over 900 miles - not at all a practical proposition not the least because a set of tracks is apparently only good for 1500 miles and cost £1500 to replace and the rates charged by some haulage firms border on the ridculous - I had to pay over £300 just to move a round trip distance of 20 miles last year that would have cost me about £50 in diesel - but thats another story relating to VOSA's incompetence, not this issue..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 the rates charged by some haulage firms border on the ridculous - I had to pay over £300 just to move a round trip distance of 20 miles last year that would have cost me about £50 in diesel - but thats another story relating to VOSA's incompetence, not this issue..... Neil, Road haulage is a very competitive business and whilst some may charge the earth the general going rate tends to be around the same amongst a lot of firms. Your £300 pound rate probably wouldn't have been much different if you'd been moving 100 miles. The fact is your short job tied up a man and vehicle for a day. Not much chance of doing another job that day so they've got to make it pay. Running your own low loader,drops, beavertail as your transport isn't going to be cheap. The only saving really is on a drivers wages. The time between shows the vehicle is stood around costing you money and not earning. Fuel, tyres, servicing costs etc are roughly the same as for a commercial haulier. One of the few savings to be made is by registering as MPV thus avoiding road fund cost and plating costs. If not willing to `risk' the MPV route it's probably not that attractive and economic a proposition to run your own transport, purely for MV shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Not a lot but its less boring and got responses.if we are going back to having to stick strictly to the topic without wandering off every now and then this forum will lose the best advantage it has over the others.My picture poses a genuine question about MPV,yet yourself and Antar havnt an opinion and Mike wants to go back in the courtroom and start the beavertail vs the ministry saga.Lifes to short off down the imperial war musuem before i say something i regret:nono::-D Can't win, can I... members PM me to say a topic is going Off Topic & can I bring it back on track, I do & I get Stick... I get PM's asking to remove photos as they have nothing to do with threads, I leave them & I get PM's back giving me stick... I get asked to lock threads & we leave them open, still more complaints... We lock them when asked & WW3 breaks out... At the end of the day when members PM us about a thread or problem we discuss it & take action we think is for the best... There's no problem with going off topic but why when having a serious discussion why would anyone want to take it off topic...:confused: There's serious issues being discussed here & the thread should remain focused.... or should I just delete the whole thread as one member suggested... As for having an opinion there's some on here that think I shouldn't have one... Off to have my dinner now... carry on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Can't win, can I... members PM me to say a topic is going Off Topic & can I bring it back on track, I do & I get Stick... I get PM's asking to remove photos as they have nothing to do with threads, I leave them & I get PM's back giving me stick... I get asked to lock threads & we leave them open, still more complaints... We lock them when asked & WW3 breaks out... At the end of the day when members PM us about a thread or problem we discuss it & take action we think is for the best... There's no problem with going off topic but why when having a serious discussion why would anyone want to take it off topic...:confused: There's serious issues being discussed here & the thread should remain focused.... or should I just delete the whole thread as one member suggested... As for having an opinion there's some on here that think I shouldn't have one... Off to have my dinner now... carry on... At least you know we care. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thought we were back on topic now after a slight diversion! Lightening up what's been a heavy and at times contentious thread can't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Neil, One of the few savings to be made is by registering as MPV thus avoiding road fund cost and plating costs. If not willing to `risk' the MPV route it's probably not that attractive and economic a proposition to run your own transport, purely for MV shows. I am not at all sure there is any exemption for a MPV regarding plating and testing. It is my opinion that, A Foden Drops would require plating and testing, even when used as an MPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Lee your doing a grand job,not one i would wont to take on, you have educated me i have to say,i cant believe members PM you about the odd pictures they dont consider on topic and complaining about it going off topic.this Forum is more like real life conversations than any other forum i know,Its how things happen in the real world.If the members who complain on the above issues feel that heavy about it i suggest there are other forums that run a unrealistic sanatised ,name and shame you if you dare put a word out of place forum. just for you.This is the friendly forum and what makes it so is its ability to go on ,off topic very often opening up a fresh thread of imense interest. So for goodness sake you people give the man a break.if you dont i will send benny round. So there you have it ,off topic picture,more off topic talk ,if you dont like why not PM me.Remember its all just for fun. just as a PS anyone else agree with me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You'd be suprised what we get PM'd about... now't about Benny yet:sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Taken from V112G Goods Vehicle Testing – Declaration of Exemption 14. Vehicles constructed or adapted for, and used primarily for the purpose of carrying equipment permanently fixed to the vehicle which equipment is used for medical, dental, veterinary, health, educational, display, clerical or experimental laboratory purposes, such use a. not directly involving the sale, hire or loan of goods from the vehicle; and b. not directly or indirectly involving drain cleaning or sewerage or refuse collection. Again the wording “used primarily for the purpose of carrying equipment permanently fixed to the vehicle” What’s other peoples view on permanently fixed, Bolted on, welded on etc? I would say the bed of my Beavertail is permanently fixed but I could have it off and another body back on in about an hour with a windy gun and the Militants Crane. Mike, This taken from post 79, would appear to indicate that MPV's are also exempt from testing. Don't know where I got the tax exempt bit from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 You'd be suprised what we get PM'd about... now't about Benny yet:sweat: Give 'em time Lee, give 'em time!!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 (edited) "Stomin" re plating and testing exemption....I dont believe it is..Not if its has been used as a loader to bring a half track to the show. Which has been unloaded, and then the Foden dressed up with a few display boards. Clearly the biggest part of its display equipment, was not permanently fixed, and has been removed and parked elsewhere.... Edited March 1, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisg Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Lee your doing a grand job,not one i would wont to take on,you have educated me i have to say,i cant believe members PM you about the odd pictures they dont consider on topic and complaining about it going off topic.this Forum is more like real life conversations than any other forum i know,Its how things happen in the real world.If the members who complain on the above issues feel that heavy about it i suggest there are other forums that run a unrealistic sanatised ,name and shame you if you dare put a word out of place forum. just for you.This is the friendly forum and what makes it so is its ability to go on ,off topic very often opening up a fresh thread of imense interest. So for goodness sake you people give the man a break.if you dont i will send benny round. So there you have it ,off topic picture,more off topic talk ,if you dont like why not PM me.Remember its all just for fun. just as a PS anyone else agree with me? I'll agree with you Just dont send benny round :shake: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 :tup:::rofl::rofl::rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think this started as a bit of a joke then developed into a wind up and boy oh boy has it worked:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Well - it helps pass the time when you're stuck indoors staring at the same 4 walls day in day out!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Neil, Road haulage is a very competitive business and whilst some may charge the earth the general going rate tends to be around the same amongst a lot of firms. Your £300 pound rate probably wouldn't have been much different if you'd been moving 100 miles. The fact is your short job tied up a man and vehicle for a day. Not much chance of doing another job that day so they've got to make it pay. Running your own low loader,drops, beavertail as your transport isn't going to be cheap. The only saving really is on a drivers wages. The time between shows the vehicle is stood around costing you money and not earning. Fuel, tyres, servicing costs etc are roughly the same as for a commercial haulier. One of the few savings to be made is by registering as MPV thus avoiding road fund cost and plating costs. If not willing to `risk' the MPV route it's probably not that attractive and economic a proposition to run your own transport, purely for MV shows. Tend to disagree if you have the knowledge & facilities to run your own beavertail or low loader, it doesn’t cost much. With our Foden registered as Private HGV the VED comes down from £1,200 per year to £165 per year. Older trucks don’t tend to fetch much money now, the FL10 beaver tail we have just chopped in for the Foden cost us £3,750 off eBay three years ago and in that time has only had about £600 spent on her. We got more back, than we paid, when she went. Also remember a Truck MOT is cheaper that a car one nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Can't win, can I... members PM me to say a topic is going Off Topic & can I bring it back on track, I do & I get Stick... I get PM's asking to remove photos as they have nothing to do with threads, I leave them & I get PM's back giving me stick... I get asked to lock threads & we leave them open, still more complaints... We lock them when asked & WW3 breaks out... At the end of the day when members PM us about a thread or problem we discuss it & take action we think is for the best... There's no problem with going off topic but why when having a serious discussion why would anyone want to take it off topic...:confused: There's serious issues being discussed here & the thread should remain focused.... or should I just delete the whole thread as one member suggested... As for having an opinion there's some on here that think I shouldn't have one... Off to have my dinner now... carry on... Tough at the top mate, just think on it as being like a High Court Judge without the six figure salary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Tend to disagree if you have the knowledge & facilities to run your own beavertail or low loader, it doesn’t cost much. With our Foden registered as Private HGV the VED comes down from £1,200 per year to £165 per year. Older trucks don’t tend to fetch much money now, the FL10 beaver tail we have just chopped in for the Foden cost us £3,750 off eBay three years ago and in that time has only had about £600 spent on her. We got more back, than we paid, when she went. Also remember a Truck MOT is cheaper that a car one nowadays. Only problem there is you still need to get a HGV license. Medical rules for these are all geared up towards the vocational license, there is no provision for a non-vocational limited mileage type of license..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Playing Devils Advocate for a mo' - what if the transporter has permanently fixed information panels along the sides relating to the particular MV being carried so that the MV can be properly considered as a part of the exhibit.Thus the transporter when parked up would be a purely static exhibit and the MV once removed would be once of the related exhibits. Would this meet the criteria??? Only my opinion, but would think that the panels aren’t the display, the vehicle is the display. Can a vehicle be permanently fixed to its self? A stalwart can be classed as a MPV in its own right, but would not be MOT exempt because its an MPV, there are other options for MOT exemption but these are open to interpretation, give me a shout off list as it would be like lighting the blue touch paper on here, and you can make your own mind up if its applicable to your application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Only problem there is you still need to get a HGV license. Medical rules for these are all geared up towards the vocational license, there is no provision for a non-vocational limited mileage type of license..... I think the medical rules are geared towards the type / size / weight of the vehicle not on how much you drive it, remember things like drivers hours and tachographs are not required for HGV’s used privately, I’ll add “if the truck was manufactured more than 25 years before the occasion on which it was being driven” Before some one throws a wobbler. Edited March 2, 2009 by Grumpy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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