any idea's on these rear lights?

[rippo]

 

hello

I bought these thinking they were early british rear lights as shown in the picture of the mw. But when i opened them up there's a double small stop and tail bulb any idea's?

 

 

 

 

[sirhc]

John,

 

The ones on the MW in the photo are standard post war FV pattern lights, common to many vehicles from Land Rovers to Ferrets, CVRTs, FV430 etc etc.

 

Chris

[Richard Farrant]

John,

 

Are you refering to the smaller pair of lamps to the left, under the last "4" in the census number?

[HotBed]

the one on its own was also fitted to early ferguson te20 and fordson majors

 

regards

[rippo]

yeah the lights under the number 4.

 

I wish i'd take a better picture now. i guess they were used before the rubbolite ones were, as thats maurices bedford in the pic, and i have two holes in the same place on mine.

But again i'm guessing, one would be the stop light and the other the tail light.

 

So they might be lights from a tractor what era is it from?

[Degsy]

Have a look at www.fergiland.com there is a pic under new parts, might be some help. I am pretty sure the pic you posted is a Butlers lamp.

[Richard Farrant]

i guess they were used before the rubbolite ones were, as thats maurices bedford in the pic, and i have two holes in the same place on mine.

But again i'm guessing, one would be the stop light and the other the tail light.

 

So they might be lights from a tractor what era is it from?

 

Rubbolite lamps are earlier, then the WD pattern tail lamps were introduced, like your second pic...still wartime. Stamped on the bracket will be some letters, either L-WD-T (Lucas) or B-WD-T (Butler), one stop other tail as you say. I think it is likely that these lamps were in abundance after the war, hence why tractors might have been fitted with them. Due to the small lens area, they are not legal to use as road lights any more.

 

Your lamp, in second pic, does it have two contacts inside?, not for a stop/tail bulb though, this is possibly from a vehicle that had insulated return, usually armour, or petrol tanker perhaps. Butler front sidelamps also come with either single or double contact.

[rippo]

There is nothing stamped on the bracket. It has twin conectors an a twin filament bulb.

 

The picture above is on maurice's mw. Until a saw his i thought rubolite no 5 were always used on the mw's, bolted to the tool box, again one brake light and one tail light. I have two holes in my body in a similar place to where maurices are. How early did the change take place?

[Adrian Barrell]

They are fitted to Cromwell tanks, possibly others, as a single tail light and should be marked L-WD-T1A meaning, Lucas, War Department, Tail 1A. The stamping is usually very faint and is on the back of the mounting face. The bulb should be twin contact but only one filament as they are insulated return as Richard pointed out.

Edited January 17, 2009 by Adrian Barrell

[Richard Farrant]

There is nothing stamped on the bracket. It has twin conectors an a twin filament bulb.

 

How early did the change take place?

 

 

A normal stop/tail bulb has offset pins so that the bulb only fits in one position, these WD tail lamps have parallel pins.

 

The only way you will know when tail lamps changed on the MW is to go through the MW parts books for different contract numbers.

 

Going through the QL book, they mark parts that are also used on other models, ie MW, OY, etc. The original lamp ( shown as fitted to MW, OX and OY ) fitted was Bedford part no. 7057333, this marked as "no longer serviced", use 7068067 ( MT3/WD/T1 ), which was less bulb. Bulb fitted is a 14 volt, 7 watt. This is the lamp as Adrian and I have described, it was made by either Lucas or Butler with slight differences but under the same WD designation.

[woa2]

I know those rear lights were fitted to British 1/2 ton trailers, if this is any help. They are different to the one that fits a WOT2.

[fv1609]

You can always rely on the VAOS, this one is dated Nov 1943.

 

 

[Richard Farrant]

You can always rely on the VAOS, this one is dated Nov 1943.

 

 

Clive,

 

Just found my Vocab and see you have beat me to it!

 

:tup::

[antarmike]

A twin filament lamp is not necersarily a stop and tail lamp. I have come across military bulbs with two filaments, wired in parallel across the same two contacts. Both are on at the same time and if one fails, the lamp is half a bright. It still works (after a fashion) but the driver knows he has lost a filament and can change the bulb before the second filament goes and he looses the light completely.

Edited January 17, 2009 by antarmike

[fv1609]

Clive, Just found my Vocab and see you have beat me to it! :tup::

 

I'm disappointed Richard, that you would have to rely on mechanical aids, I thought you would have known it off by heart:)

 

My attempts to upstage you have been thwarted. I have a RAF Vocab 16E (MT electrical fittings), although it has a lot of wartime stuff this one is not listed, although it is 1954.

[antarmike]

I have one such lamp in my hand. it is marked 26v 5w and on the other side has a broad arrow and X 952235 (although the last figure could be a 6 or 8 rather than a 5)

 

it is a twin filament lamp with a single centre contact, both filaments wired between this contact and the cap. I have seen twin contact lamps with a similar parallel filament arrangement.

 

the cap does not have indexed pins.

Edited January 17, 2009 by antarmike

[antarmike]

A 26v 6w one carries ?5-2236

 

and I have a 28v 5w carrying 995-98, in all I can find 4 such lamps in my spares box, but one has only a limited part of the number legible W 623

 

I don't know if these numbers mean anything but I hought I would give those with the inlcnation a race to come up with an answer.....

[Richard Farrant]

A twin filament lamp is not necersarily a stop and tail lamp. I have come across military bulbs with two filaments, wired in parallel across the same two contacts. Both are on at the same time and if one fails, the lamp is half a bright. It still works (after a fashion) but the driver knows he has lost a filament and can change the bulb before the second filament goes and he looses the light completely.

 

Thanks Mike,

 

If the bulb that Rick has, is twin filament and double contact, than an easy way to prove that it only works on one circuit via double contacts, is to put a meter or battery, from one contact to bulb body. There is unlikely to be a circuit and thus prove it not to be a stop/tail bulb, but as you say, a doubled up filament.

:tup::

[antarmike]

If it were stop and tail, the stop lamp would I suggest not be 21w on the stop filament/ 5w on the tail. as is modern practice, the Glass is too small, and the lamp enclosure to small to disapate that much heat.

[Richard Farrant]

I have one such lamp in my hand. it is marked 26v 5w and on the other side has a broad arrow and X 952235 (although the last figure could be a 6 or 8 rather than a 5)

 

 

 

Mike,

 

This bulb is described in Vocab as;

LV6-MT3/X952236 26v 5w SCC To DTD Spec. AFV 1085. For AFV's utilising 24v, single-pole, electricla system ( for side, tail, convoy, interior and panel lights).

 

DTD : Department of Tank Design

Edited January 17, 2009 by Richard Farrant

[antarmike]

Cheers,

 

I honestly can't remember were I got them from, I think they were in a batch of screw in glass lens lucas lights, I bought second hand.

[rippo]

so would you say these are the same lights on the back of the mw picture?

[Richard Farrant]

so would you say these are the same lights on the back of the mw picture?

 

If you mean are they the same as the lamp shown below the MW photo, I say, yes.

[rippo]

If you mean are they the same as the lamp shown below the MW photo, I say, yes.

 

Yes thats right the light in my picture is the same as the lamps, bellow the 4, on the MW pictured. Thats the rear of Maurice Donkers MW and he's a bit of a expert on the early bedfords, if as you say they only came into use later in the war why would he have them on his?

 

What i know of the rubbolites, they were fitted to the frame of the tool box, not above the tow bar, would you agree with this? Looking at maurices he as no spare holes on the toolbox frame, most of the mw's as far as i can remember, have spare holes on the frame. Some of the wood on the body of my mw is original, and the piece where the rear lights on maurices are mounted, as far as i can tell is an original piece on mine, and i have two blind holes in a very similar place to where maurice has his mounted.

 

I've sent him an email asking his opinion i'll let you know the reply.

Edited January 18, 2009 by rippo

[Richard Farrant]

, if as you say they only came into use later in the war why would he have them on his?

 

What i know of the rubbolites, they were fitted to the frame of the tool box, not above the tow bar, would you agree with this?

 

Rippo,

I do not know when Rubbolites were changed over, but suspect the rubber shortages may have influenced the change for a metal option. you will have to trawl through parts book to see when the change was. It would not be wrong to see either on a wartime vehicle unless you want it as it left Luton.

 

Normally these lamps are to the offside, Maurice probably put the road-legal glass ones in the position the originals were, and moved those across just for looks.