ArtistsRifles Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 At almost 16k (you forgot the VAT again) how is it a viable alternative to a FV432 for off road use??? If it was able to be used on the road then how is 25k a viable alternative :confused: A) Show me a 432 that had the equivalent of 229,000 Euros spent on it by the Gov't before disposal and sale (that included new engine, gearbox, roadwheels etc.) and that came with everything - other than weapons -such as radios, intercom, NBC systems, smoke dischargers etc fitted and working..... B) Even at the higher price it's off-set by easier - a lot easier - access to the power pack and transmission, systems wiring etc. greater reliability and less need for maintenance. Although the box is manual and not auto it's also safer to drive as the steering and braking systems are seperate and have pneumatic fail-safe sysems in the event of hydraulic failure. Not to mention its fully amphibious.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 ..still asking, anyone know of this 434 Is this one already road registered??? Can't see any sign of a plate in the photo. If not, you could be heading for the same problems as me with it as, according to This Site: FV432 IOC: 1963 Total Production: 3,000 Dimensions: Height 2.3 m, Length 5.3 m, Width 2.8 m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 A) Show me a 432 that had the equivalent of 229,000 Euros spent on it by the Gov't before disposal and sale (that included new engine, gearbox, roadwheels etc.) and that came with everything - other than weapons -such as radios, intercom, NBC systems, smoke dischargers etc fitted and working..... Neil, The difference between your vehicle and any British AFV is that you needed to buy one in that condition, because if you tried to restore one you would have real difficulty finding any parts. I struggle with some CVRT bits, and the British and Belgian armies have had 3000 of them for the last 30 years. I would hate to think what a road wheel will cost you, should you need one. If you do get it out on the road, no doubt you'll shed one every now and then like the rest of us. I think you'll need to own, drive and maintain the vehicle for a few years and then re-evaluate the situation before you can actually recommend it to a newbie. As for registering a 432, I did one, it was easy. If you have that nice blue piece of paper from the MoD (form 645) it becomes easy, thats all the DVLA are really interested in. ---- Back to the 434, I think it's a good project at the price, especially with the CES kit. It doesn't need to be displaying a plate to be registered. I rarely display my plates. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 I have to agree with you on that one Chris, I,ve been messing around with my 43's for a number of years and in the right hands they're a good durable bit of kit that do not take or cost a lot to fix!!! I,ve also never had any problem registering them!! Right, I,d better get down off my soap box,the nurse is coming with my medication:nut: they don,t normally let me stay up this late:nono: Dave P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 Neil,The difference between your vehicle and any British AFV is that you needed to buy one in that condition, because if you tried to restore one you would have real difficulty finding any parts. I struggle with some CVRT bits, and the British and Belgian armies have had 3000 of them for the last 30 years. I would hate to think what a road wheel will cost you, should you need one. If you do get it out on the road, no doubt you'll shed one every now and then like the rest of us. I think you'll need to own, drive and maintain the vehicle for a few years and then re-evaluate the situation before you can actually recommend it to a newbie. As for registering a 432, I did one, it was easy. If you have that nice blue piece of paper from the MoD (form 645) it becomes easy, thats all the DVLA are really interested in. ---- Back to the 434, I think it's a good project at the price, especially with the CES kit. It doesn't need to be displaying a plate to be registered. I rarely display my plates. Chris Chris, I just suggested looking at the Warsaw Pact stuff as an alternative. Apart from certain difficulties with diverse Gov't agencies I'm happy with mine. My rationale for buying it it was simple - I physically don't fit CVRT's and every one was buying 432's so being awkwards I fancied something different. Also the rear entry of the OT is lower and, when I bought it the idea was my Dad would have been able to get in and out easily. Sadly he passed away before it was delivered. Difference between "them" and "us" is that all the kit was common throughout the Warsaw Pact and a lot is still in use - unlike the MoD who seem to flog everything off as soon as it comes out of service. For example the UDT-20 engine is still in production and useage world-wide. Unlike the J60 and B80/81. Spares may take a little longer to get but they are easily sourced and other owners give an approx time for deliver of 2 to 4 weeks depending on size and when a truck is coming over. The example given of a road wheel will be ITRO £100 with a new tyre on it. But like in all things - you pays your money and takes your choice. Thus far I'm happy with my choice and I trust MetroMan will happy with whatever he decides to go for, be it a 432 or a 434!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 10, 2008 Author Share Posted August 10, 2008 Is this one already road registered??? Can't see any sign of a plate in the photo. If not, you could be heading for the same problems as me with it as, according to This Site: Made 1967, registered 2005, 1 owner, no further history. The guy has owned it for a year & has done nothing with it. 1) 432 machanicals, is there much difference between that & 434 2) 'Don't touch mk1 petrol' is this due to mpg or mk1/2 is a better version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 I think he was referring to mpg. If you don't use it a lot, then mpg/fuel costs really aren't an issue. Our CVRT doesn't even get into double figures for milage (yet...) so running it at shows really is not an issue. If you plan to road it a lot, then you might want to consider the multifuel Mk2. Mechanically the Mk 1 has the proven Rolls Royce b81 petrol engine (I think). I know somebody who used to run a driving experience type place, and he preferred his mk1 432's for off roading as they had slightly better acceleration to get up over obstacles if you needed the momentum. The mk2 is probably has the edge for road use as there is (presumably as it's a diesel) a it more torque, and it will have better engine breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted August 10, 2008 Share Posted August 10, 2008 Made 1967, registered 2005, 1 owner, no further history. The guy has owned it for a year & has done nothing with it. 1) 432 machanicals, is there much difference between that & 434 2) 'Don't touch mk1 petrol' is this due to mpg or mk1/2 is a better version. The engine on the 434 has another shaft fitted which is used to power the hydraulic equipment for the crane, otherwise it is identical to a 432 pack. Same with steering box, wheels and tracks. Some of the suspension units are different as they can be locked out when the crane is in use. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Went to see the 434 yeasterday, 242 miles in total, at least the rain had stopped when I arrived. Not to sure, from what I could see the mechanicals had not been touched for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Mechanicals not touched for a long time can be good and bad. To start with assume all friction pads are sized. But on the other hand no one has tried half hearted bodged repairs. Theres a lot of hydraulics on that, makes for an expensive restoration. Did you get a chance to seriously poke oil levels etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Engine oil is 1/2" up the stick & black, I don't know enough about these to make any sort of decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 At least its got oil in it. Mark and the other track layers will give you better advice. They have very intermate knowledge of the joys and despairs. :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 It definitley looks well used, but I think you'd be surprised how much better it will look with a pressure wash and a clean out with a wet vacuum cleaner. All of these vehicles are full of oily water, I had a 432 which took the best part of a day to drain out. It depends if you are looking for a project, or one which has already been done. I think I'd want to see it running and the crane working before purchase though. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 Its up for 8000, is that a bit over the top ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Ref the 434 - depends on the price and how much work you want to do. By the look of the pictures, I would imagine the hatches have been left open as per usual - don't know why people do that - drives me nuts. It doesn't look too bad and as previously said - doesn't look mucked about with. From what I can see the track pads will need changing - not a hard job and £600-£700 for a complete set. Road wheels look okay. Looks like a lot of the equipment is still there - A-frame on the side is a bonus as these tend to go missing. I would imagine ex-Gulf war and this could explain the state of the interior. Vehicles don't like sand - horrible stuff. I would certainly want to see it start and then monitor the gauges for temp, etc. Also would want to see it drive and stop. If that is okay, not a lot more to go wrong. Is it the one from Wayne Meadows? - If so, he's a pretty straight bloke so ask him what the pros and cons are. Failing that - take someone with you who has a 432 / 434. The end result will be determined by the price - A decent FV432 can be brought for around £6500 - £8000. An FV434 is worth more but it would depend on the condition and how much the chap is asking. All in all, if it starts, stops and steers - can't be too bad. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 £8000 is not a bad price providing the thing has no serious faults. Even if the power pack was shot - a replacement would set you back about £1500. As for the crane - if it works great. If it doesn't, I will probably be the hydraulics. Difficult to repair but not for someone who is swtched on to hydraulic systems. Besides, how often are you going to use the crane. What say you Chris? Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 £8000 includes a new set of track pads, get him to throw some wheels and CES in and I think it's a good deal. Powerpacks and steering boxes are easy to source. It still has the smoke dischargers fitted, and is road registered, so I don't think you can't go too far wrong. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 If it uses the same system as fitted to the Stalwarts (FV623 and 624 models) then most of the crane problems are due to the filters in the hydraulic system. A fairly easy and cheap fix on the Stalwart - no idea on the 434 but it can't be much different, can it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 ..still asking, anyone know of this 434 I am intrigued by the markings. P13B is surely a callsign, but here is the nub. Pre-1982, the first character (in this case Papa obviously) of a four-character callsign would be an arm-indicator, fixed for decades to indentify the arm of service to which the remaining three characters (13 Bravo) refer. 1 = A Sqn/Coy/Bty etc 3 = 3 Tp / Pl, etc B = Troop corporal, third vehicle in the troop / platoon (after 13: Troop leader - and the troop as a whole depending on context - and 13A, Troop sergeant). When the OrBat eneabled major units to swap squadrons and companies to create battlegroups, it might happen that B Coy of an infantry battalion would attach to a battlegroup which included its own B Squadron of tanks, both using three-character callsigns prefixed with 2, leading to major confusion. By assigning an arm-indicator, this confusion was eliminated. Until say an armoured battlegroup acquired a recce squadron which shared three-character callsigns with its own squadron. Or a mechanised infantry battlegroup acquired a lorried infantry company. Or Artillery or Engineers acquired likewise. So these four arms, as well as having I (for Infantry), T (for Tanks - Armour), G (for Guns - Artillery) and E (For Engineers), also had made available to them the respective alternative arm-indicators K, U, W and F. Voice Procedure required that the combat arms always answered up first on the radio net, so the order of answering was thus the acronym IKTUGWEFA (spoken as it reads) followed by the non-combat arms in alphabetical order, B, C, D, H, J, L, M, N, ETC. The W Artillery alternative was relatively late, and you may well hear bleeps talking about Iktugefa rather than Iktugwefa. A was army aviation, B (Bravo - how appropriate) was airborne or Special Forces and so on. REME was Romeo and Military Police was Papa. So how come this vehicle bears the arm indicator Papa? With no A Vehicles of their own, why would RMP own a 434? Hang on, you say, at the start, I stated that this situation existed until 1982. The 434 is in desert cam, so it is logical to assume it represents service in a sandpit. In 1982, Signals issued a total rewrite of Voice Procedure because the arm-indicator (and the variations of the standard callsign allocations across arms) was giving far too much information to the Commies' listening stations monitoring our radio traffic. Under the new system, every radio net used exactly the same set of callsigns without variation and every unit was allocated a new prefix in lieu of the arm-indicator, which changed daily at midnight alongside the radio frequency. (It did no good on the 1 Armd Div Logistic Net because even the GOC recognised my accent and first time he heard me in the next room, he walked through and greeted me accordingly. Imagine hard at work in the office and in bounds a Major-General who greets you with, "I know that voice. You run the MRG radio systems and are forever giving my operators a hard time." "Sorry, sir." Grovel, grovel. "Not at all. They are a bunch of slackers who think they know everything and need the occasional rocket up the arrse from somebody who does know what he is talking about.") When I heard about Bravo Two Zero, I could not help but notice that, according to McNab, they were "randomly" (according to Signals SOPs as described here) allocated the prefix Bravo (previously airborne or Special Forces) which stuck for the duration of the Op. Quelle coincidence. Ever since, this has nagged me. Did "they" realise they had created far too much work and revert to the old system prior to Op Sandpit 1? Last month, chatting with Command Troop, The Light Dragoons, I was assured that the daily-changing prefix does indeed still apply, though once Bowman has rolled out to everybody, it is planned to drop this and revert to the old arm-indicators because sat behind a totally-encrypted net, the arm-indicator will prove useful to those on the net, and only those on the net. So back to P13B. If the callsign is daily-changing, whose bright ieda was it to paint it on the side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 And what is 209 supposed to indicate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 I bet you can type faster than me..:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 When I transferred from cavalry to Pay Corps in 1982, I had to be able to type 15 wpm. This was effected by getting us into a classroom every Monday at 0800 to spend an hour being trained to touch-type by a very nice WRAC. I was first first to pass the typing test (achieving 17 wpm) but continued to attend the classes. After all, she was a lovely WRAC. Aah, memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) When I transferred from cavalry to Pay Corps in 1982, I had to be able to type 15 wpm. This was effected by getting us into a classroom every Monday at 0800 to spend an hour being trained to touch-type by a very nice WRAC. I was first first to pass the typing test (achieving 17 wpm) but continued to attend the classes. After all, she was a lovely WRAC. Aah, memories. ..sorry couldn't help myself. :rofl: Edited August 11, 2008 by Metroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 ..sorry couldn't help myself. :rofl: Aah well you see it was an extra valid, correctly-spelt word. Would not have caused marks to be deducted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metroman Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 (edited) Transport... Collection of a 432 - Midlands, 434 South West, who would you use, please pm details if you do not want to post. Phil Edited August 11, 2008 by Metroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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