A.E.C. Militant MK 1 Gallery

[antarmike]

A Scammell flag prize on its way Andy! (if I can find the artwork)

 

any sudden movement of the carriage could cause the superstructure to swing (slowly at first but then very rapidly) around 180 deg., given the steep angle at which the machine is sitting. It is only a risk, but a very real one given the effect of the counterweight at that angle.

 

 

 

It is my opinion that if the counterbalance was going to turn the machine round, it would have started to do so as the machine was toppling in. The fact that the jib is at 90 degrees to the bank, with the counterbalance at its highest point, shows this did not happen therefore it was either locked when the machine toppled, the bucket was holding it, or gravity was having a greater effect on the jib than the counterbalance weight. But as you say we will never know.

 

Clearly the driver is in the cab and the engine is running so I suggest the balance of probability is that the machine was fully operational, and the driver was in control.

Edited December 30, 2008 by antarmike

[N.O.S.]

I've always thought of recovery work as a skill/trade/art which you can't really learn properly without getting your hands dirty, and getting a few years experience under your hat.

 

You've had your hands dirty for quite a few years by the sound of it Mike, and if you'd been recovering it your way, I would certainly not dream of criticising your methods, because it would be the way which best suited you.

 

Shame I scrapped the last of our 3 draglines, we could have organised a HMVF winching weekend in the fens! :-D:-D:-D:-D

[AndyFowler]

1,000 lines for you young Tony ! I MUST NOT SCRAP ANYMORE OLD RUSTY ARTIFACTS ! :-D

[antarmike]

Now that I would have come along to. Have we got anything else we can topple in a dyke?

[antarmike]

Do we actually know this Mk3 Milly? No-one has suggested whose it is. Anyone got an idea having seen the Vid?

[AndyFowler]

Seeing as this is the Mk 1 Millitant thread I thought you might like to post comments on this video found on youtube ! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYkmU5c0oU :angel::angel:http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TGZ2KN09oRE&feature=related

Edited December 30, 2008 by AndyFowler

[antarmike]

No, I am just winding people up on this forum for a bit of fun (as I often do!), I am not that passionate about what I am saying to post on you tube. That takes a certain sort of person to get enthused about youtube, it's not for me.....

As I say I made a passing comment, I didn't expect to get this deep into pro's and cons.

Edited December 30, 2008 by antarmike

[antarmike]

Maybe the mods should lift all the posts relating to this Video into the Milly 3 forum, but unfortunately the link to the Video was placed in the wrong gallery, and the resultant converstaion is therefore in an inappropriate thread.

[N.O.S.]

I wonder what the squirrel said to those guys to upset them so much......

[AndyFowler]

I meant post comments on this forum about the video Mike ! I know the Youtube comments are often just filthy words and insults by some rather sad individuals ! Not really a good place to discuss our hobbies !

[antarmike]

I meant post comments on this forum about the video Mike ! I know the Youtube comments are often just filthy words and insults by some rather sad individuals ! Not really a good place to discuss our hobbies !

Sorry didn't read the post I responded to carefully enough did I? See what you mean.

[antarmike]

Well its not how I would have done it but........

[Degsy]

Don't let Jack see this video, he'll have an apoplectic fit seeing them vandalise a beautiful old oak tree.

[Simon Daymond]

ok, jacked up the back wheels, all the wheels turn easily so the handbrake is off.

 

When I turned one of the rear wheels on the back axle, because the opposite wheel was on the floor, the axle moved back and forwards, I don't think it should do that?

Looks like the torque bar has a problem, it's not loose, but the felt packing has come out, what's left of it.

The Torque bar end should have a screwed cap on, complete with grease nipple. On the end of the torque bar, fastened to the axle where the movement is, the cap is missing. The torque bar looks as though it's been loose a while.

 

So several questions really;

 

-should the back axle move back and forward ?(I'm assuming not)

-does anyone know of any spares for these?

-is it safe to drive?

 

The foot brake valve was sticking, every now and again it would make a loud clicking noise when pressed, the brakes wouldn't relaese until it was pressed again. Is it u/s, or is it caused by standing and might right itself?

[6 X 6]

the axle moved back and forwards, I don't think it should do that?

-is it safe to drive?

 

 

Do you mean the whole axle is loose ? Are you kidding ?

[Simon Daymond]

the rear axle moves forward and back when you turn one or other of the rearmost wheels with the other wheel on the floor. The front axle is solid.

 

Here's a picture of the torque bar, sorry it's poor quality, it's from my phone and it was very dark, but if you've seen one, I'm sure it'll be good enough to jog a memory?

 

 

Perhaps you can just make out the felt packing at the bottom of the circular section, it has split and come out.

 

Here's a picture of the other end of the same torque bar with the cap in place. The cap screws on.

 

[6 X 6]

[quote

The foot brake valve was sticking, every now and again it would make a loud clicking noise when pressed, the brakes wouldn't relaese until it was pressed again. Is it u/s, or is it caused by standing and might right itself?

 

I was once told about a lubricate that could be introduced into a braking system that would free up sticking valves etc. without damaging the seals. Possibly, some grade of silicon ? Or was it a gas ? Does this ring a bell with anyone ?

 

I don't think your lorry is experiencing quite the right symptoms for blocked breather holes on the front dummy palm couplings to be the cause of problems but checking to see if these are unobstructed, if you have not already done so, might be worth doing.

[6 X 6]

the rear axle moves forward and back when you turn one or other of the rearmost wheels with the other wheel on the floor. The front axle is solid.

 

 

Thank you Simon, I was hoping I had misunderstood you. No, your rearmost axle shouldn't be moving about. It's hard for me to imagine how this is possible.

 

Regarding the torque bar, I've never had any problems in this area and so I haven't got anything helpful to say. I'm sure someone will post soon that we can both learn from.

 

Personally, I wouldn't drive this lorry until these issues are sorted out.

[6 X 6]

the rear axle moves forward and back when you turn one or other of the rearmost wheels with the other wheel on the floor. The front axle is solid.

 

 

The wheel clonks backwards and forwards when rotated ? Or, are you saying the entire axle moves forward and back ?

 

Sorry, I've edited this post because I now understand what you mean.

 

One axle, you could say one half shaft, clonks back and forward when the wheel is rotated, which is normal. The other axle won't move, is solid, because the brakes on that axle are binding. The possible cause is that the arm that actually enters the brake back plate is seized and not allowing the shoes to be released off the drum. Have you tried whacking this arm with a copper hammer and squirting a bit of oil around as suggested by Richard Grosvenor a few posts earlier ?

Edited December 30, 2008 by 6 X 6

[Richard Farrant]

the rear axle moves forward and back when you turn one or other of the rearmost wheels with the other wheel on the floor. The front axle is solid.

 

Here's a picture of the torque bar, sorry it's poor quality, it's from my phone and it was very dark, but if you've seen one, I'm sure it'll be good enough to jog a memory?

 

 

Simon,

 

It is a very long time ago since I worked on these when they were in service, but I think that cap that is missing, is part of the bearing surface for the torque rod end. Without it, the rod is not held tight on the ball pin. You might be lucky to fit a new cap and get away with it. Changing the rod is not an easy job, especially with the body on.

[Simon Daymond]

thanks for the replies; when I refer to the rear axle, I mean axle 3. As both rear axles, 2 & 3, are driven, if I only jack up one wheel it isn't possible to spin it freely, as the other 3 wheels are on the deck. To get it too spin freely, I should imagine I would have to get all the rear four wheels off the deck? This is why I get limited movement.

 

When I jack up only one of the wheels on axle 3, when I attempt to turn the raised wheel doing so turns the prop slighty and moves the axle forward, only by 1/2 inch, rotate the wheel back and the axle comes back. (this happens when I turn either of the rear wheels on axle 3, with the other on the floor, if they are both in the air, the axle stays put) It looks like it's been like that for quite some time as all the paint where the torque bar and axle touch is rubbed away and the metal polished smooth.

 

Richard, I hoped the same regarding the missing cap; that perhaps the cap located onto the pin, holding the whole thing in place. What I'll do to test it, is take a cap off the front torque rod which braces axle 2 to the chassis, and see whether the movement stops, and whether axle 2 starts to float around.

 

Do I need to replace the felt, or can I just regularly grease the joint? I take your point about replacing the joint not being easy, however the book deals with the whole process in a matter of a couple of sentences!

 

With regard to the foot brake valve, would I do any harm introducing a lubricant into the air system? I had thought of using the oil I use for my air tools, but thought I'd best wait until I consulted.

[Richard Farrant]

Richard, I hoped the same regarding the missing cap; that perhaps the cap located onto the pin, holding the whole thing in place. What I'll do to test it, is take a cap off the front torque rod which braces axle 2 to the chassis, and see whether the movement stops, and whether axle 2 starts to float around.

 

Do I need to replace the felt, or can I just regularly grease the joint? I take your point about replacing the joint not being easy, however the book deals with the whole process in a matter of a couple of sentences!

 

With regard to the foot brake valve, would I do any harm introducing a lubricant into the air system? I had thought of using the oil I use for my air tools, but thought I'd best wait until I consulted.

 

 

Simon,

 

From distant memory, the ball pin is just that, it locates in the chassis on a taper with a nut securing. The pin is inserted through the rod eye and cap secures, taking up the clearance. I seem to think the cap is adjustable to allow movement of the joint. No manuals to hand to check, as I said, it is about 20 years since I last worked on or drove one of these.

 

Do not put oil in the brake system, with the dust and rust etc. that congregates in an air sytem, and the likelyhood of it affecting the rubber, you will have more problems. Best remove the valve and check it out, I think it was a Clayton Dewandre part ( or Westinghouse?), so it might be possible to find a kit or even a nos valve. Better safer than sorry.

[6 X 6]

With regard to the foot brake valve, would I do any harm introducing a lubricant into the air system? I had thought of using the oil I use for my air tools, but thought I'd best wait until I consulted.

 

I'll try and find out about this lubricant. I think it must be quite specialized although the air tool stuff may be suitable we'd both better wait, as you suggest, until we know for certain. All of these problems probably relate to lack of use.

 

So the entire axle assembly is moving. Blimey.

 

Have you tried Charlie for a replacement cap ? Or Bernie Smith ? I don't think it will be that difficult to find one. I'll start sniffing around for you.

[6 X 6]

Simon,

Do not put oil in the brake system, with the dust and rust etc. that congregates in an air sytem, and the likelyhood of it affecting the rubber, you will have more problems. Best remove the valve and check it out, I think it was a Clayton Dewandre part ( or Westinghouse?), so it might be possible to find a kit or even a nos valve. Better safer than sorry.

 

Richard, can you think of what it is that can be safely introduced into a braking system that frees off sticking components. I had a friend who was very knowledgeable about braking systems and I distinctly remember him recommending that I could plumb a special valve into the braking system and, via this valve, certainly not an oil, perhaps a gas with lubricating qualities, could be pumped into the system. I'm out of touch with this bloke but I'm sure someone will know. It's used as a time saver in commercial workshops and avoids having to dismantle components.

[Richard Farrant]

Richard, can you think of what it is that can be safely introduced into a braking system that frees off sticking components.

 

 

The only think that I am aware of is Methanol and this was only used to stop the air system icing up in cold weather, no lubricating properties I would have thought. I would be extremely doubtful that any type of lubricant was injected into an air system.

 

The talk of air tool oil is totally different, this is to lubricate air motors, not usually any rubber in them either.