antar Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thought the following pics may be of interest. All taken of Antars in service in Germany late 70's The picture with the 10/30 Dummy axle and Martian Wrecker reminded me to dig out and scan thie picture attached. It was in the olden days when we used to get sunshine in the summer (about 1998). My Antar, Dummy Axle and Martian all hooked together. Took it home still hooked together much to the amazement of the police on traffic duty at the gate !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 They would lock you up in the tower now Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 They would lock you up in the tower now Mike. Mike ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest catweazle (Banned Member) Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 (edited) Mike ? Its a bit like Calling everbody john as we did in days gone by when we didnt know somebodys name,What would you like to be called Antar? I see from your profile you will be two years old in January,in case i forget happy birthday:-D Edited November 18, 2008 by catweazle (Banned Member) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antar Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Its a bit like Calling everbody john as we did in days gone by when we didnt know somebodys name,What would you like to be called Antar? You got it on the nail with John ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 You got it on the nail with John ! Hi John, I just put 2+2 together and realised it was you that bought the Antar clutch centre plates at Peter Court's sale and let me have a couple for the Constructor. Think I bumped into you again at Stoneleigh when you brought the Antar in on 9 wheels?? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 My Antar, Dummy Axle and Martian all hooked together. Thank you for posting this wonderful 'photo. I can well understand the amazement of the coppers who must have been thinking, "how can anyone be allowed to have that much fun and it still be legal ?" Anyway, sorry to be boring, but what is the legal situation when towing another vehicle while using a dummy axle ? Legally speaking, are you towing two trailers (including the DA)? I understand that, for the purpose of recovery, commercial operators are allowed to tow two trailers, for example, a broken down articulated lorry and that also, under certain circumstances, showman may tow more than one trailer. I've even seen photographs of antarmike towing two trailers with his Antar. So, what is the current law regarding having this sort of supercharged fun, by towing two trailers, out on the Queen's Highway? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 do you want the long complicated answer or the short simple one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 do you want the long complicated answer or the short simple one? One that would sound fairly convincing to the average copper if ever I got pulled doing this. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 One that would sound fairly convincing to the average copper if ever I got pulled doing this. Cheers. Ok, an unladen artic is classed as one trailer, if laden as two. A locomotive may tow 2 trailers, and for all intents and purposes a heavy recovery unit may be classed as a locomotive. A ballasted Antar would most certainly qualify as a locomotive, but not one fitted only with a working fifth wheel. Disable the fifth wheel (nut and bolt through the dog clip hole) and you could claim it as ballast. Locomotives are subject to severe speed restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Ok, an unladen artic is classed as one trailer, if laden as two. A locomotive may tow 2 trailers, and for all intents and purposes a heavy recovery unit may be classed as a locomotive. A ballasted Antar would most certainly qualify as a locomotive, but not one fitted only with a working fifth wheel. Disable the fifth wheel (nut and bolt through the dog clip hole) and you could claim it as ballast. Locomotives are subject to severe speed restrictions. Thank you Mike, that's a very succinct and helpful answer. I don't know what's happened to croc. I think he maybe still looking in his Highway Code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It gets even more complicated when C&U regs and Special Types come in to the equation.... For instance the Contractor hauling the Conqueror using a helper dolly is pulling 2 trailers, yet has a fifth wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It gets even more complicated when C&U regs and Special Types come in to the equation.... For instance the Contractor hauling the Conqueror using a helper dolly is pulling 2 trailers, yet has a fifth wheel. I think any copper seeing a Contractor hauling a Conqueror would be dreading the amount of paperwork a pull would generate and just look the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 A Heavy loco can tow three trailers provided they are all under 7metres long. It can tow two trailers, if one is over 7m and the other is under 7m provided overall length (including loco)does not exceed 25.9 Metres. Light locos can only tow two trailers, and they have to both be unladen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 (edited) Thank you Mike. While we're discussing all this, what are the speed limits for heavy locos towing two trailers on single/dual carriageways? Thanks. 25.9 metres equals 85 feet. Edited November 19, 2008 by 6 X 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 20 M.P.H. irrespective of road type, if on pneumatics all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 :-D do you want the long complicated answer or the short simple one? One that would sound fairly convincing to the average copper if ever I got pulled doing this. Cheers. Sorry, there isn't a short simple one. Antarmike showed me a book called "the Traffic Officers Companion" by Gordon Wilson. (ISBN 07106 25693) it contains all sorts of rules and regs and is quite good. plus the picture of a Locomotive looks a bit like an Explorer. If the towing vehicle could be considered a locomotive. "mechanically propelled vehicle not constructed itself to carry load other than equipment for propulsion, loose tools and loose equipment" Motor Tractor UW not exceeding 7370kg Light Locomotive UW 7320kg to 11690kg Heavy Locomotive UW exceeding 11690kg you are allowed a width up to 275cm, explorer front axle is 263cm, I presume Constructor is similar. as a loco you are allowed 3 trailers, with some size retrictions as Mike pointed out. you do get into maximum weight and length issues but there is an exemption for towing broken down vehicles so probably ok if it has a meadows:cool2::-D If you go over width, length, weight you need to operate under STGO which is also covered in the book. Best bet is to get a copy and be able to show to the best of your knowledge you are legal and the average copper will hopefully decide it's not worth the paperwork and go after some chavs instead:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Thank you very much indeed for your replies. It's very reassuring to know that forum members will take the trouble to answer questions like this in such a comprehensive and expert way. I really appreciate it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Traffic+Officers+Companion&x=12&y=18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Just to clear up a few odd ends on this subject, an Explorer classed and taxed as an Historic Vehicle, can legally tow an unladen trailer. The insurance stipulates it is mustn't tow more trailers than allowed by law, a living van is deemed to be unladen if it only has personal effects in it. My question is, does it still count as a Heavy Locomotive and if a second trailer, or say an unladen Landrover was added and towed on an A frame, would this be legal and insured? Leaving aside the brakes issue for now. And finally, would this be legal on a full category B (car) driving licence, non commercial use of course? I only ask because some times my Landrover ends up in the wrong place after a trip out, it would be quicker and easier to pull it behind, even at 20 mph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 If the unladen weight of the Explorer exceeds 11690 Kgs it is a heavy Loco and can tow two trailers to a max train length of 25.9 metres providing one trailer is less than 7metres including drawbar(or A frame). providing both trilaers are braked in sync with the Towing vehicle, and providing trailers are carrying the tow vehicle reg, etc. If the Landy was at the back, it would be a trailer, not a vehicle, so would need triangular trailer reflectors, not standard rear of motor vehicle reflectors,. But yes it is my belief that is legal. I believe you would need HGV 1 (C+E) licence. I can't see it being done on a car licence. but I am not a lawyer or a traffic specialist, so if the Rozzers don't like it, don't mention my name.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
croc Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 however, according to my copy of TTOC "a trailer (other than a broken down motor vehicle) manufactured on or after 1-7-70 must have a pair of reflex reflectors of one of the following types" [triangular types illustrated] so if the landrover was older than this or broken down it wouldn't need them.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
younggun Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 i have allways been led to belive that a heavy locomotive dous not need a class 1 licance . i have been driving heavy locomotivs on a class 2 since i passed at age 19 (without a trailer ). i was told that a ballest tractor dous not carry eny load so it can not be a HGV . but in the eyes of the law it is best to have a class one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julezee001 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Presumably Class 2 is the same as C + E restricted, i.e. rigid with a drawbar trailer, so you would be covered for Locomotive use? Class 1 or C + E is essentially for driving an artic with a fifth wheel. Strangely when the UK changed the latter designations I moved from class 3 to C + E restricted, but then as REME we had to have C + E for recovery work. I then took the test with a Ford cargo and drawbar trailer? 15 years on I have yet to get a drive in an artic! Jules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 X 6 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 One good turn deserves another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gritineye Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Thanks for the input chaps, I think it's a bit dodgy all round myself and full of pitfalls, so I have put TOC book at the top of my Christmas list in bold :cool2: I will be delivered under STGO (Santa's Transport Generally Overloaded) so it will be a month getting here :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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