johann morris Posted May 4, 2019 Author Share Posted May 4, 2019 Looks good Mog, the engine that I have is an early engine, so I think that this would be fairly straight forward, new inlet manifold and carbs. It's an option that I can consider if I fail to get the replacement going but it's a challenge now and I have to at least give it my best shot. If there are plenty of old 6 six cylinders around Hoseman, I am buggered if I can find them, unless I want to pay through the nose and then they all seem to need rebuilding. I hate electrics in cars, give me an old school engine any day but I am assured that these Jag engines are quite straight forward, once you get to know them. What I should have done, is found a complete but rusty vehicle and stripped it for parts. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mogmaner Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I started with the intention of yousing the EFI setup ,but it refused to work even with all the system taken from a running downer. So went old school Land Rover distributor electronic points and modified 1.6 rover manifold with 1 3/4 SU .Which ever way you go look forward to seeing the finished results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 (edited) Evening All, The petrol tanks in place but not leak tested or finished, as I have been waiting for various components to arrive. It should hold about 70 litres of fuel, so a lot less than the 170 litres in the original tank but I want to put the electrics between the engine fire wall and the petrol tank. This area then gets covered so that you won't see any of it. One of the other items that I have been making, is the air filter housing. I want to use a standard early Jag filter, so although the outer housing looks as it should, hopefully, the modern filter fits inside. These are the best two pictures that I could find of the original item. The inner housing, containing the actual filter. The top cover for the outer housing although in reality, on my version, it's just for show. It's looking a bit like a vacuum cleaner. The complete housing with the outer housing and brackets in place. I can't bolt it in place yet as I need to have the gearbox in place to make sure everything fits. Jon Edited May 8, 2019 by johann morris delete radom picture 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 13, 2019 Author Share Posted May 13, 2019 Evening, There's not alot to show you really, as i have been altering my previous work to accommodate the new, later engine. I took a trip up north to meet Rick, Eddy8men and what a really nice chap he is. The reason for my journey, was to pick up the muff couplings for the steering box drive shafts but oh, how I would love to restore some of his toys. Thanks again Rick, for the bits and the chat. Whilst I was talking to Rick he introduced me to a new word " Imagineering" so I have been doing a bit myself. One of the frustrating parts of this project, so far, has been trying to decide what to do for the final drives. On the way home, being bored at the wheel, I was thinking about all the options thus far and it looked like I would have to sell a kidney to finance the relevant components, then seeing a vehicle on the road and cursing a lot, I had an idea. A quick search on fleabay and low and behold, someone was scrapping such a vehicle 3 miles from where I live. I haven't done any accurate measurements yet but from a tape survey, they seem to match up, almost too exactly and the ratio looks to be 5.5 : 1. Sunday morning, my son and I, took a Land Rover stuffed with every tool needed for a right bugger of a job but ended up only using a couple of spanners, a ratchet, highlift jack and a big bar. Two hours later they were in the workshop waiting to be washed. Jon 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 always nice to meet a fellow lunatic. (there's not enough of us about). glad you got the final drives sorted, it looked to be the last major piece of the puzzle, apart from the tracks that is. keep up the good work. when you've finished we'll have a chat about something bigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarland Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 21 hours ago, johann morris said: Evening, There's not alot to show you really, as i have been altering my previous work to accommodate the new, later engine. I took a trip up north to meet Rick, Eddy8men and what a really nice chap he is. The reason for my journey, was to pick up the muff couplings for the steering box drive shafts but oh, how I would love to restore some of his toys. Thanks again Rick, for the bits and the chat. Whilst I was talking to Rick he introduced me to a new word " Imagineering" so I have been doing a bit myself. One of the frustrating parts of this project, so far, has been trying to decide what to do for the final drives. On the way home, being bored at the wheel, I was thinking about all the options thus far and it looked like I would have to sell a kidney to finance the relevant components, then seeing a vehicle on the road and cursing a lot, I had an idea. A quick search on fleabay and low and behold, someone was scrapping such a vehicle 3 miles from where I live. I haven't done any accurate measurements yet but from a tape survey, they seem to match up, almost too exactly and the ratio looks to be 5.5 : 1. Sunday morning, my son and I, took a Land Rover stuffed with every tool needed for a right bugger of a job but ended up only using a couple of spanners, a ratchet, highlift jack and a big bar. Two hours later they were in the workshop waiting to be washed. Jon So is this a pitch for the latest "Clives Mystery Object" - Yes they are final drives but off what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 14, 2019 Author Share Posted May 14, 2019 Rick, I can't wait until I have finished these things have to planned. As for the final drives, Well that's what you have to guess. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 Hi Jon the shafts appear fairly short, are these reduction units off a forklift truck or possibly a small tractor? regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 i'll go with richards thoughts on small tractor final drives. whatever it is i'll bet you're glad you got hold of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 15, 2019 Author Share Posted May 15, 2019 Richard, you are good, final drives from a tractor, although considered more of a medium sized model in it's day. I am sure that they will take a bit of adjustment to fit but yes I am glad that some inspiration appeared and if I need another set, I know where to go. Now back to the wiring. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 10 hours ago, johann morris said: Richard, you are good, final drives from a tractor, although considered more of a medium sized model in it's day. I am sure that they will take a bit of adjustment to fit but yes I am glad that some inspiration appeared and if I need another set, I know where to go. Now back to the wiring. Jon Jon I visited my cousin’s farm today and by sheer coincidence they were putting the rear hub units back on an old David Brown tractor and they looked very much like those that you have found ! Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 Evening All, This is a long one but where to start. The petrol tank is finished and the new engine is in place, so now on to the electrics. I have an engine, a wiring loom and two ECU's, one engine and one gearbox. The wiring loom doesn't fit the engine, the concept of plug and play has gone out of the window, the wiring loom is the wrong loom for my engine ECU. The ECU requires one yellow plug and one black, my loom has one yellow and one blue plug, that doesn't fit the ECU. As far as I can ascertain, the loom is for a 3.2ltr, my engine is a 3.6ltr. What to do. In a moment of shear depression, I did think about trying to find the correct loom but then I thought, what the hell, I will rewire the whole thing. The Haynes manual is like the proverbial chocolate tea pot, so after a lot of searching on line, I found a wiring diagram for a 3.6 of roughly the right vintage and begun chopping. This is definitely not a job for the faint hearted, it involved altering, and I am not exaggerating, about 80% of the wiring loom, even the colours are different. Eventually after two days of chopping and adding I was getting somewhere but where I wasn't sure. Even the simple items had either more of fewer wires. At last I turned the key, nothing. There was, in the loom, a group of about 10 wires that were all permennant lives, in other words they were live even when the ignition key was turned off, something I don't like, so I cut them into individuals and traced where they went, ignored what I didn't think was important and connected the remainder, just one. After my initial test or failure, I realised that I needed a second permenant live to the ECU, this was connected and I tried again, the ECU fired up along with the fuel pump. I now had two of the main items, a cranking engine and fuel but no spark. When the expert, had decided that I needed a different engine, part of his reasoning was that this engine didn't require an ignition amplifier. I spent hours looking for a wiring diagram that didn't require this amplifier but I couldn't find one, so I rang the expert. Now amazingly he told me to ignore what he had told me and fit an amplifier. This should give you some idea of what I have been up against. The amplifier was ordered and duly arrived. The wiring diagram showed 5 wires, the amplifier had 7 connections and the plug had 7 connections but only one of the wire colours in the plug matched the diagram and that was in a different position in the plug. Again, back to the internet but I couldn't find the relevant diagram. What I did find, was a thread where a bloke had wired in his amplifier incorrectly and attached pictures of the connections and their relevant place in the plug. There's a but, the plug had 7 spaces but only 3 wires were connected. The wiring loom that I have, originally only had 3 wires, of course the colours didn't match but I decided to attach these 3 wires into the plug as per his picture and blow me I had a spark. Today I reassembled the cooling unit into the hull, connected everything up, filled the cooling system, attached a temporary fuel tank and pressed the starter. After the fourth attempt it started, what a sweet note from the exhaust, well for 30 seconds and then the oil pipe to the oil cooler shot off and emptied 8 litres of oil on the floor. Bugger. I have to admit that I have shortened this story so that you don't consider suicide. Jon 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 What a total PITA! Car electrics are a nightmare these days... Sounds like you have brought it to life though! Truely an amazing feat of determination and perseverance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddy8men Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 you have my respect. i can stick two bits of steel together but anything electric would be unlikely to end well for me i'm glad you persevered and overcame the problems. one more step toward the big day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonBrown Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Jon - this is one of the finest threads running here. Nothing short of remarkable. Keep at it and don't let the obstacles grind you down! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 BRDM, Vehicle electrics, what can you say. One day perfectly good vehicles will be useless because of them. I find it hard to believe that our armed forces buy vehicles that are reliant on electrics. Rick, One step forward, two steps back, The oil pipe was a stupid mistake on my part, my son connected the pipes together and I didn't check them. Still I have made a modified version of the connector and I am waiting yet again for supplies, god this area can be frustrating some times. Simon, Thanks, to be truthful after emptying the oil over the floor I was rather issed off but the worst part is that I know that I can't buy the items that I need locally so I have to rely on the internet. Rely, internet, Ha Ha Ha...…….. Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul a Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Hi Johann you are a star with this build i have rebuilt a few ww2 vehicles a few jeeps ,bikes and a kubel but but nothing like this to have a go at a scratch building tank you are a madman and i wish you all the luck in the world with this Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 24, 2019 Author Share Posted May 24, 2019 Thanks Paul but I am not mad, it's just the voices in my head. Anyway, all's well, the engine starts, revs but I have another problem, the exhaust is toooooooooooo quiet, now I didn't expect that ! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowfat Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatchFuzee Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 On 5/23/2019 at 10:06 PM, johann morris said: I have to admit that I have shortened this story so that you don't consider suicide. Jon Were you nearly driven to suicide? Have you drawn a wiring diagram or numbered the wires for future reference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share Posted May 25, 2019 To be honest no, it was a very interesting exercise and I understand more about the system than I did before. Unfortunately I am so busy, give it a week or so and the information will be overwritten in my little brain. It will still be there but I will have to concentrate damn hard to retrieve it. I have made notes and identify the various wires for future reference so that should help. The engine loom is all tided up and the engine has been started several times. There are some aspects that I am not happy with but once the steering box and final drives have been connected to the gearbox the whole lot can come out for spraying and then any concerns addressed. Jon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share Posted May 26, 2019 Afternoon, My big brother came to visit us today, well in actual fact, he came to see the Panzer. As I had tided things up yesterday, he didn't see the mass of wires so I don't think he could appreciate what a real headache it has been. A somewhat tidier engine bay 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolling-thunder Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, johann morris said: Afternoon, My big brother came to visit us today, well in actual fact, he came to see the Panzer. As I had tided things up yesterday, he didn't see the mass of wires so I don't think he could appreciate what a real headache it has been. A somewhat tidier engine bay It's hard to believe there will be room in the hull for crew once it has all the gear in there? It looks fantastic. Edited May 26, 2019 by rolling-thunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlymb Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 (edited) On 5/24/2019 at 9:22 PM, johann morris said: Thanks Paul but I am not mad, it's just the voices in my head. Anyway, all's well, the engine starts, revs but I have another problem, the exhaust is toooooooooooo quiet, now I didn't expect that ! Jon If the local yabbo's are to be believed this can be fixed by lowering the suspension, adding a chrome endpiece to the exhaust and fitting a useless spoiler. A new soundsystem and metallic paintjob are optional but can't hurt either. Edited May 29, 2019 by earlymb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johann morris Posted June 2, 2019 Author Share Posted June 2, 2019 (edited) Guten Abend zusammen, The steering box is bolted in it's final resting position, which isn't exactly as per the original but because of the components that i am using it was always was going to be a compromise. The final drives / reduction boxes stuck out too much from the side of the chassis, meaning that the front sprockets wouldn't be inline with the rest of the wheels. I therefore removed material from the castings, first of all with an angle grinder and then I finished them to size on the milling machine. The next problem was bolting the final drives to the chassis as I had cut the original studs off of the castings. There are six 1/2" UNC threaded holes already in the front of the castings that I can utilise but I need some in the flange area. The answer was to drill five new holes for M16 bolts and then weld bosses on the rear of the flange so that the flange bolt securely on to the chassis. The output shaft was then reassembled into the casting so that I can position the final drive housing onto the chassis and drill all the attaching holes. That's all for now folks, Jon Edited June 2, 2019 by johann morris pictures 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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