cordenj Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Should be worth watching. Stoke up the fire and get a glass of malt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks for the information. I suppose the programme will tell me more about the McGregors but it would be interesting to know if one of them is a pilot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Colin flies as a pilot in the RAF, I think he flies a Lanc in the programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Just watched it, very good documentary ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Not a bad documentary at all I thought... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Got it wrong:red: Colin is an ex RAF pilot, although in my defence I got the info from blurb about the programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Loved it! I was a bit dubious of an actor fronting the program - I am always slightly cynical with 'celebs' presenting history programs - but it worked. His brother was the anchor and could relate which worked for me. The BBC should do more of this. Jim Clark and the Allied Forces team and Jess and I flew along the Normandy beaches at 800' in that C47 - flipping amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 On the whole I enjoyed it but as usual the historians jumped on the apologist bandwagon. It's all too easy to be wise years after the event but the Russians had requested the bombing of Dresden and at the time we were trying to get the war finished as soon as possible. At the end of the day Bomber Command lost over 55,000 men and the American losses must be added to the total. As far as I'm concerned this is the most important thing and should never be forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RattlesnakeBob Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Sorry Deggsy..you'd put your post up whilst I was writing mine so I didn't see it 'til I posted mine!......I totally agree with you mate! ...and more people were actually killed in the big Hamburg raid than Dresden anyway....I think the problem lies with folk that have a smattering of knowledge of the war as a whole and then they go and say "oh bombing them like that was wrong"......... ............ I think 'fronting' the show with a young famous actor fella probably brought more folk in to watch it than if it had been done by wise old professor type.??? .........either way ..a good documentary and well done.. The boys of Bomber Command have been cruelly ignored and ...when not ignored.. it has been far to easy for those nowadays in the safety zone of hindsight to criticise what they did ....Total war unfortunately is just that ...'total'.. As someone once said regarding the bomber war ...." to have ignored and turned away from what the bombers could possibly do, would have been a worse folly... we were fighting for our very existence"..... There within lies the problem I believe..... .........it is incredibly easy for certain folk alive now in that warm comfort zone of 'hindsight' to completely and absolutely fail to exactly understand what those dark days were actually like........ Edited February 6, 2012 by RattlesnakeBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rog8811 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) I have always subscribed to the view that Harris was given a job to do and he did it to the best of his ability, he should not have been castigated for trying, in the only way available to him, to bring the war to an end. My old mum in law, who lived through the bombing of London, went on a coach tour through Germany a few years ago. She told me last night how the tour guide was constantly pointing out places where buildings had dissapeared because they had been bombed by the British........ I do wonder how much the German civilians knew about how the war was waged, by there own counrtymen, against the cities in the rest of Europe. I enjoyed the programme very much, the first hand comments from the veterans were well worth listening to. Below is a repost the google earth image of the BOB Lancaster flying over Huntingdon that I put on the forum some time ago, it seems pertinent. Edited February 6, 2012 by rog8811 sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sorry Deggsy..you'd put your post up whilst I was writing mine so I didn't see it 'til I posted mine!......I totally agree with you mate! ...and more people were actually killed in the big Hamburg raid than Dresden anyway....I think the problem lies with folk that have a smattering of knowledge of the war as a whole and then they go and say "oh bombing them like that was wrong"......... ............ I think 'fronting' the show with a young famous actor fella probably brought more folk in to watch it than if it had been done by wise old professor type.??? .........either way ..a good documentary and well done.. The boys of Bomber Command have been cruelly ignored and ...when not ignored.. it has been far to easy for those nowadays in the safety zone of hindsight to criticise what they did ....Total war unfortunately is just that ...'total'.. As someone once said regarding the bomber war ...." to have ignored and turned away from what the bombers could possibly do, would have been a worse folly... we were fighting for our very existence"..... There within lies the problem I believe..... .........it is incredibly easy for certain folk alive now in that warm comfort zone of 'hindsight' to completely and absolutely fail to exactly understand what those dark days were actually like........ No problem RB, we obviously feel the same about this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I totally agree - it was an excellent programme somewhat spoiled by the trip to Hamburg - there was some reassessment by Ewan and the veterans who pointed out that the judgements made in the hell of war should not be judged by those of us who did not live thro' those times. One veteran spoke a simple truth "they started it". If the Nazis were that concerned about their own people they could have stopped the war. No it is typical of politicians, then and now, to be more concerned with their own reputations than recognising and praising the job done by Harris and his bomber crews. I suppose we should be grateful that 'we' are at last building a monument to them, sadly, after many of the few survivors have died without recognition. For those interested in the horrors of being an air gunner, as demonstrated by Ewan, I recommend the 'Air Gunner Collection' at the wonderful 'Yorkshire Air Museum', Elvington, near York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 That Bomber Harris was thrown to the political wolves does not suprise me. The old military lore, if an order is not illeagl carry it out then argue applies. Harris did what he was told to do. Politicians can publish thier memoires, with little challenge. Military officers have a sense of Honour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I don't think a peak time programme could afford to ignore the morality issue completely and on the whole I thought it pretty well balanced, and as Ewan said the discussion about the morality of bombing civilians does not detract from the bravery of the young (now old!) men featured. To me they are all true heroes.. I did get a bit annoyed by the constant presence of Dresden on the target maps though - i didn't think Dresden really saw very much bombing until Feb'45, whereas it was presented as a target all the way through i suspect just because of it's profile. I seem to remember reading about Harris that he was once stopped for speeding (a bit of a speed demon apparently), and when the policeman said 'you could have killed somebody sir', he replied 'officer, tonight i will kill thousands'...! Now there's a single minded war leader if ever there was one.. I also liked the .303 demo and thought that quite telling... Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike65 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sat there watched it and enjoyed it. I think it was right and appropriate that it was done now. The fact that they included veterems who flew with bomber command annd the inclusion of the "enemy" veteran and survivor also added something. Oh and not forgetting the lady rivetter who built the Lancaster's added an extra dimension. To me they made the program stand out from many other similar documentaries, along with the McGregor's trying to experience it to the best that modern day will allow. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big ray Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hindsight is a wonderful thing, as a boy during the second world war all that I ever heard was, the only good German or Jap is a dead one. Unfortunately war is by definition violent and degenerative, so its not surprising that at the time everyone just wanted to bomb the hell out of the Germans. One has to remember that at that time the allies still did not know how far advanced the German scientists were with their atomic programme, and its an absolute fact that had they acquired that capability they would most certainly have used it, with all the associated loss of the civilian population, and I cannot imagine that the Luftwaffer would have been ignored or castigated for their actions......... its just politicians covering their own backsides where bomber command were concerned. My grandfather, who raised me, was the most well balanced individual that I ever met, he went to great lengths during and after the war to tell me that all nations have good and bad people, and always to make my own judgement after studying ALL the known facts. I remember that he used to invite US troops into our home for drinks and a little home comfort. He used to say, they are just young boys a long way from home. He was very understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero-Five-Two Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Got to say one of the best things on the telly for a while. Well presented with a balanced views. It is unfortunate that bomber command only seems to be remembered for Dresden and how bad it was, terrible damage, civilian casualties etc. Ask anyone who lived through the war in Canterbury, Coventry, Swindon or any of the other big cities that were flattened during the so called Beidekker raids over here and I'm sure they will all say the same "they started it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Will there be a re-run on BBC1-4 anytime soon? I missed it and would like to see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cordenj Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Will there be a re-run on BBC1-4 anytime soon? I missed it and would like to see it! Eveing Joris, It is bound to be repeated, but can you access BBC iPlayer in the Netherlands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joris Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 No you can't it's only available with an UK IP address.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'll keep an eye out for a repeat and try to let you know in time Joris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'll keep an eye out for a repeat and try to let you know in time Joris. It is on BBC iplayer, but can you get that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzkpfw-e Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Not bad, as these programmes go. I was particularly interested in seeing the chase-chopper views of the Dakota landing, I never realised that they were so difficult to keep in a staight line once they touched down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
private mw Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 very good tv enjoyed it very much ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosie Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Sat watching it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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