Post War MVT - you are joking!

[rapier rob]

As a show organiser and promotor (at the gunpowder mills if you need reminding) I'm happy for ANY vehicle to turn up.

There is absolutely NO bias between ww2 and postwar!

 

One group of re-enactors for example was ww2, and another group was portraying Croation forces from 1991, so no bias there!

 

I must admit, at other events there is a definite "If its not WW2, your not welcome" attitude, but thats just down to the organisers, as far as the public go, if its big and green they love it!

They don't care about the age, OR its history......

 

23/24th June at Waltham Abbey, Essex.

Just off junc 26 of the M-25

 

No Bias, No prejudice, No hassle! come along and have a lovely time :-D

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Tim

 

Just to pick up on a few of your points

In the latest edition of Windscreen (MVT), if you ignore the pages relating to shows, tours, club reports etc, there were zero pages relating to WW2 vehicles alone; one page realting to WW1 trucks and 35 relating to post war trucks and trailers. The cover was of a scammel Explorer.

 

 

Whilst the 36 pages covering everything other than WW2 were avidly read and appreciated, the pages you had mentioned to ignore covering shows, tours etc etc appear to be the ones that "get our goat" so to speak.

Its not a question of having the Post War vehicles discussed in magazines and forums as such its more the case that shows seem to discriminate between what is and what is not allowed.

 

When we did a WW1 truck show there were 5 WW1 trucks and no others. No public either. I had a good time, brilliant in fact. Largest gathering of working WW1 trucks seen in this country for a long time.

 

 

I congratulate you on having that many WW1 trucks turn out for a show but did any of you ask yourself why no other trucks attended or for that matter no public?

Not trying to accuse anyone here of elitism but would it have mattered too much if any other vehicles attended your show be they WW2 or Post War?

 

We (MVT) did a road run earlier this year. All were invited (everything whatever it was). We had 15 vehicles in all, including one post war Jeep and a civilian Land Rover. I must be guilty as charged as when i tried to take a photo of us all in line along a road, i tried to keep the civilian (never a military one i must say) Land Rover out of the picture and felt slightly dissapointed that my photo of all these green machines (including post war one) would have a brown and white Land Rover in the middle of them.

 

 

Once again out of 15 vehicles only 1 post war example and a civvy Landy show up to an MVT area event, ever think why?

 

I am sure there are Post War owners in your area membership who would have turned out had they been of a mind to, but then we get into the "clique" syndrome which is prevalent in most area's from what I can make out.

 

I speak of this from personal experience with my area of the MVT and this can be confirmed by many other members here.

 

I can cite one incident out of many where Post War owners had their vehicles deliberately placed in an area away from WW2 vehicles for no good reason (no related diorama's were operating at that event) and this was at an area meet not a large show, so it just goes to show that there is a justifiable reason most Post war owners are "pissed off" with the attitude they receive and that they are not "paranoid" or as you put it "suffering from a slight persecution complex".

 

I am speaking from the viewpoint that this has happened to me on too many occasions and I am one of those "pissed off" people I speak of. Does it make me any more biased towards Post War vehicles? Not on your life, I enjoy Military Vehicles whatever their era and whilst it might appear that I am trying to "thrust" my viewpoint on others what I am in fact trying to do is bring to the attention of those who run the areas and main clubs that there IS a divide out there that they need to be addressing as it is causing more and more people to move away from "club" related events by forming their own groups.

 

"Tossing the lit match onto GWT's liberally sprinkled petrol and watching the flames lick skywards"

[paul connor]

Iwent to a show recently, and the application form stated

"military vehicles must be over 30 years old"

Why? sure the public would be happy to see anything?? why from 1976 upwards?

granted more of a steam fair but alas! anything green should be good

[saracenstump]

now this could get rather heated! but i have to agree, we've held a few shows at coalhouse fort and never discriminated any vehicle as i see all military vehicles are the same even the oldest(horses!)it does seem to me that the major clubs do look down their noses at anyone who has a post war vehicle.some owners wouldn't even give you the time of day unless you had a jeep for instance,i feel that we are all doing the same thing ,that is keeping these vehicles alive for future generations!but you must remember that alot of post war vehicles were designed during or just after the war and were used with alot of ww2 vehicles during the fifties so seeing these vehicles together is not blasphemy!

as for shows i would thought any show organiser would be greatful to any owner for bringing their vehicles as it means that the public will turn up wether their interested in ww2 or anything else!!!!

[Great War truck]

 

It is appalling that anyone can be so narrow minded and blinkered to put the post war MV's at the back or in a different field. Are these people really MVT people, or are they the local agricultural show/village fete organisers. Such behaviour is terrible but i am concerned that you direct this at the MVT as a whole, when there may be just a few people who are MVT members doing this.

 

As an area secretary for the MVT i will say that our membership is a fairly even mix of WW2 and post war and we seem to get on well with no antagonism. On our road run, the night before we had two restored military Land Rovers and a Ferret arrive for our barbecue and booze up, but none of these chose to go on the run. The weather was appalling though which might have something to do with it. Also the ferret was beautifully restored and was too nice to get scratched to bits going green laneing. I have never identified any antagonism between WW2 and post war vehcile owners, but will raise this matter at our next meeting and gauge public opinion.

 

Back to Windsceen and the shows tours that you mention. Well having had another look:

 

1). The M20 tour had nothing but M20 photos in it.

 

2). Exbury had 5 WW2 vehicle pictrues in it, but no post war

 

3). Tankfest had 3 WW2 and 4 post

 

4). Kemble had 3 WW2 and 6 post

 

5). Weymouth had 10 WW2

 

So indeed, no post war vehicles at Exbury and Weymouth which i suppose are organisers decision. However Weymouth i know there were to be no post war vehicles as spaces were limited and they wanted only WW2. I dont know about Exbury. Anybody else know?

 

I dont think that the post war vehicles would have looked in place at Weymouth as it is really a veterans parade. No excuse for no post war vehicles at Exbury though, unless places were limited.

 

 

Well, the WW1 event was invitation only and then the organiser didn't tell anybody that it was on. We were trying to get the largest number of WW1 trucks together and were not making money for anybody, nor had any costs to cover. it probably wont happen again. It would have been fine to have a post war truck there, but due to the advertising, you could have lived next door to the site with your Layland Mrtian and never known it was happening.

 

So to some up. I love all MV's. I am not aware of any prejudice against thir owners. I do not doubt that it can or has happened on occasion, but surely the problem is not as bad as the postings would suggest. If it is happening i do not accept that the MVT can be blamed for this, however show organisers may restrict types of vehicles to suit the situation. For example Weymouth. I also remember many years ago that a Saracen owner was angry that the MVT told him that he should not take his Saracen on the 50th anneversary victory parade through Bayeux for the Normandy celebrations. I was concerned that WW2 US reenactors riding GMC's, half tracks were allowed to do so on that day. To me that was inappropriate. This must add another chapter to this posting as not only would i not allow post war vehicles through on that day neither would i allow WW2 US (ie those not used by the British or with US reenactors on them) through the town on that day. Any other day fine, bring your Dodge, Stalwart, Challenger, ride an elephant, it doesnt matter. But on that day at that place only WW2 British or Canadian vehicles (or US built but British used), re enactors and WW2 veterans should be driving through.

 

Now, that should really get the fire going well

 

Tim (too)

[Marmite!!]

 

It is appalling that anyone can be so narrow minded and blinkered to put the post war MV's at the back or in a different field. Are these people really MVT people, or are they the local agricultural show/village fete organisers. Such behaviour is terrible but i am concerned that you direct this at the MVT as a whole, when there may be just a few people who are MVT members doing this.

 

Tim (too)

 

 

It was an MVT event & a area committee member who decided where the vehicles went... I don't think the MVT or any other club should been seen promoting/hosting or putting their name to an event that discriminates between vehicle's, these clubs are fore the benefit of all members what ever their MV..

 

Veterans Parade's, why exclude post WW2 MV's :? there are veterans from other conflicts too that take part in these parades, we are invited take part in RBL parades & other WW2 dedications with our post WW2 MV's & are always made welcome..

[Mark]

It seems to me after reading this post that people are very mixed regarding the type of vehicles in rallies or commemoration events etc.

I am going to the 65th anniversary of the D-Day landings in 2009 with the IMPS, I also have post war vehicles (love a good jimmy) and understand that I will not be taking part in the "celebrations" per se, but will probably stay at the camp site in Normandy drinking tea :wink: while the convoys and celebrations are going on, I accept this because my vehicle/s will not be indicative to the situation, but saying this, there are people within the IMPs (not just MVT) who would rather post war did not attend as it's "not right" or "does not fit", fine I can handle that even being at the back of the convoy going there and probably coming back as well, BUT when these commemorations fade as they will sadly will with time, will we or our siblings be so accommodating to the WW2 vehicles to come on rallies to honour say, the Falklands or the gulf war heroes and their vehicles which took part ? I don't know.

 

I hope that the people who are collecting and preserving vehicles at that time will have the common sense not to prejudice against the time or era of a vehicle only to recognise that each vehicle that is saved also saves a bit of history, and surely that is more important than all the bickering going on in our movement about "who goes where"

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Let us take today for instance

 

As a selection of us took part in Rememberance day parade at East Ham in East London.

 

To count there were 5 Post War vehicles, Two Quads (WW2) and a 25 pounder which was fired to mark the start and finish of the silence.

 

The public as well as the veterans were interested in ALL of the vehicles as well as the gun so all in all it would not have mattered whatever vehicles attended.

 

We had travelled in convoy from Tilbury Fort in Essex (All Vehicles and gun) with no thought as to who would lead, be it WW2 or Post War and after the parade had finished we returned in convoy with the same mentality. After returning to Tilbury we all slipped into the local hostellry and spoke of how good a day it had been.

Lucky enough we all get on well so there would never have been a problem like those being discussed in this thread. But I digress.

 

It just so happens that next year is the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War and as such we found ourselves all discussing what we would be doing about such an event. Now the WW2 chaps were as enthusiastic about such an event as us Post War lads were. Could you imagine what they would feel like if we told them "sorry you cannot attend as your kit/vehicle is not in keeping with the timeline".

 

Needless to say it is something we would not do and as such really do not expect it to be done to us. Yet it is on a regular basis.

 

This viewpoint is not a knock at the MVT alone, its a knock at All the clubs/ organisers of shows who take the narrow minded view that certain vehicles should not show up at an event. If it was'nt for All vehicle owners out there putting their hands in their pockets and actually attending these events they would'nt have a show in the first place.

 

Its about time the clubs live by their own credo, that they are there for the WHOLE Military Vehicle scene and not just a select part of it.

[Marmite!!]

To those that say the MVT or other clubs aren't biased I suggest looking at the North East MVT's Events gallery as an example, 16 events attended, count the very post war vehicles... they either have very few post war vehicles in their club in which case you have to ask the question why or they prefer photos of WW2 MV's...Biased?? anyone on here from N.E.MVT care to comment?

they do have a link to HMVF though :wink:

 

Events Gallery

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/events.htm

 

Member's Mv's

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/members.htm

 

Articles

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/articles.htm

 

 

[andrewroberts.1953]

Hi, I was asked a few years ago to help provide vehicles for a end of post war conscription event. The organisers wanted only british, postwar vehicles.

The local pre 45, and US, owners were very upset! The event when ahead, but the organiser was given such a hard time it's not going to happen again.

 

I have been to another event this year were only vehicles from the 50's and 60's were asked for. Again the pre 45 owners threw all the toys out the pram!

 

But why do people do this? All military vehicles are historic once out of service. What's in service today, will be of interest to the people that used them today. The veterans of Falklands will expect to see Landrovers, etc next year.

 

[Jack]

But if I were organising a WW2 event then I wouldn't want post war MV turning up. Nothing wrong with that no more so than organising a Falklands event and having a shed load of Jeeps turn up both scenarios would be totally out of place.

 

There is going to a certain amount of black romance associated with WW2 MV's as that's what we were brought up on. As time passes we will see more and more people using post war vehicles as my family has been raised on seeing nothing but the Gulf War on the TV every single day but then we are going to run into the argument of that we ' only ever see British military vehicles on the circut '.

 

If I was a post war guy and was as unhappy as it seems a lot of people are then I would start my own post war group/club/movement and sort the problem out because I would too be suffering from frustration.

 

But there is has to be a clear distintion for certain events as some events can't have the lines blurred.

[M5Clive]

Think I might have started this by organising the OPERATION BOLERO - Tour of the Dromes event which excludes Post War vehicles, so I will put my four penneth in as well! As Suffolk Area Secretary as well, you could say I do also have a connection to the MVT Committee - but I don't serve on the council of management at National Level or attempt to speak for them. I will also comment on the MVT calander as John Cashmore and I were responsible for the 2005 version.

 

Those popst-war vehicle owners that grizzle that events are not organised for them have an easy answer - Organise your own! :-oThis is exactly what I attempt to do with both Gathering of Eagles and Operation Bolero. This is not an MVT main event, it is an MVT affiliate event where I promote the Suffolk Area. which I chair, as a recognised platform to give the event a little credability for those who don't know me personally.

 

Yes, this event does exclude PW vehicles because I don't want a dozen Land Rovers and Bedford TK's interspersed with WWII vehicles trying to replicate a 1944 supply convoy, just as the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight doesn't have a Harrier Jump Jet in its formation when it flys over Biggin Hill! Where is the problem with trying to recreate history to the best of ones ability? If one of the PW vehicle owners decided to do a 1960's convoy tour of Salisbury Plain just like I did with the 1944 Red Ball Express re-creations, you would probably be inundated with support from likeminded vehicle owners - And if your not, you know who to blame! :-o

 

This past July our Suffolk Area had a request from The Korean Veterans Association

who were holding their East of England annual reunion in Ipswich this year, asking for British Army vehicles of the period. I read this letter out at several monthly meetings beforehand hoping that the many PW vehicle owners within our ranks would support there casuse and guess what - On the day, not a sign of anyone.

 

Next year however, we are aware that the 447th Bomb Group (Eighth Air Force WWII US Veterans) are returning to their WWII Suffolk airfield and I am already having to keep interested members with vehicles at arms length - And I don't just mean a gaggle of Jeeps! :-P

 

In my experience and generally speaking the WWII vehicle owners are more proactive, spend less time grizzling about the PW members and just get on and achieve things - If you need an example, look at the 2nd Armoured crowd that took all those vehicle to France this year as featured in the current Classic Military vehicle magazine - Talk about pro-active and I for one admire them for it! - Just as I would admire anyone who organised a BAOR (British Army Over the Rhine) European trip, and believe me, if I was into collecting kit from that era, thats exactly what I would be doing too - AND under a Suffolk MVT banner as well :-o :-o

 

When an ordinary member (because that is exactly what I am) gets off their backside and committs several months of their free-time to plan and organise a designated event catering to the needs of whoever (in my case owners and operators of Allied WWII heavy vehicles both) the event is bound to succeed. If you doubt me, check out the Simon Morris Photo Gallery on http://www.gatheringofeagles.co.uk

 

With regard to the MVT calander, it is always a struggle to find a willing Area or group to take on the task of this incredibly time consuming project - I know because I've done it. If you look back to the 2005 version, we tried to make the calander balanced, but still in-keeping with our rich heritage, that the Suffolk region has to military history. Therefore the Suffolk Regiment, the Eighth Air Force and the current TA Regiment in Bury St Edmunds were included along with a selection of Area members vehicles ranging from a British Army Sherman M4A4 to a Centurion AVRE which I nearly got run over by when trying to photograph it for the project!!

 

The MVT was founded by Peter Grey in the 1970's when some PW Vehicles hadn't even been designed - Peter himself had a Diamond-T cargo and an M-10 Tank Destroyer that he saved from being scrapped at Pounds Scrape Yard in Portsmouth - Of couse the club is always going to have a bias to WWII kit, but if you when to the MVT National Show at Kemble this year, you wouldn't necessarily think so - with acres of PW vehicles including a Centurion MBT, Cheftain MBT, countless Land Rovers, CVRT's of many guises etc etc, many of which owned by friends of mine.

 

Contray to some peoples thoughts, I am not anti-PW. In fact I have always wanted to get a Saldadin and paint in up in the colours of the Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry, where my Dad used to serve. Some of the eraliest photos of me ever taken (less than a year old) show me as a baby in arms watching Cheftain tanks driving through Marlborough on exercise in 1975 - And later on came the Dinky Toys, then the Tamyia models, and in August this year I was seriously thinking about swapping my Dodge Command Car for Phil Benham's Centurion MBT !!

 

To conclude, this frictional problem (Post War - WWII vehicle) has always shown itself ever since I became involved with the MVT in 1989 and shows no sign of changing - Its not the vehicles that are at fault, its the frame of mind of a certain proportion of the vehicle owners that operate them. The MVT does its best to strike a balance, anyone who has read the last copy of Windscreen cannot deny that PW owners are well catered for - At one point I thought I had been mistaken for picking up a British Army post war TM! But, although not particularly appealing to me, it clearly appeals to many other members and its therefore a question of balance. (Similiarly, not everyone is going to want to read the forthcoming Windscreen article about the Gathering of Eagles vehicle convoy, other than webmaster Jack, who thinks its his own version of This is Your Life!

 

Yes I speak frankly on the matter and for no-one other than myself - Which is why I was never in the given a job in the diplomatic office at Whitehall![/b] But, having got off my backside to stage an event, on a self-financed, shoe-string budget, it is a little irritating to read from the wingers out there about "Oh no - yet another event from which we are excluded!" If you feel strongly enough about it, organise your own show specifically tailored to what interests you - but don't moan at the very people who's voluntary efforts make events happen in the first place.

 

No doubt this posting will put the cat amongst the pigeons! :-D

 

Clive D Stevens

 

 

 

[ian2b]

Hi Clive,

 

Thanks for the insight on how an MVT Area Secretary thinks.

With people like you running MVT areas is there any wonder post war owners are Pee'ed off. If you organised your OWN show then you can say who comes but when you use the MVT you should include ALL members not just your WW2 friends and sod anyone else. Maybe every area should have a post war owner as secreatary and organising post war events and we will see how long it takes for the ww2 owners to become peeved. No doubt you are only using the MVT banner for this event so you can have the use of the insurance which is paid for by all mvt members in there subscription. When i joined the MVT i thought it was for all mv owners to get together as a group, display there vehicles and enjoy events as a club.

Your Comment - "In my experience and generally speaking the WWII vehicle owners are more proactive, spend less time grizzling about the PW members and just get on and achieve things" - Is it any wonder post war owners grizzle given your attitude to them.

As for 2nd armour they are there own group and dont advertise as mvt when doing there events. Maybe if you had organised your own event and not done it with the mvt and excluded other area members there would not be such a problem.

 

Ian.

[Snapper]

It is up to the organisers to state explicitly what they want at their show. But they should organise narrow subject events in context with larger events and with what others are doing. There are too many factions. I went to Lee's event at Kelvedon in my Iltis; an event which has enormous potential. Nobody looked my motor at all. I couldn't care less. I had a bit of a laugh in the wind and rain (better luck in 07 chaps).

 

BUT BUT BUT...there is definitely a them and us thing with WW2 and post war vehicles. I think it is a crying shame. Which ever way this snobbery works is detremental to the whole movement. We only have to see the apparent reaction to HMVF in some quarters to recognise that there is way too much politics already without hissy fitting over who's got a proper MV. I want to see everything. I want to see them mixed up and looking good and green. I do not expect people to be regimented about it, my whole reason for being here is the alleged "easy going" nature of the hobby. This appears to be fading away.

 

ANSWER: break the cycle. Taking Kelvedon Hatch for example: it is a Cold War location and a contextual show makes sense. But there would be nothing gained in turning away any particular range of motor because it didn't "fit" -

this would be some form of Auto-Apartheid and this is precisely why the organisers invited EVERYBODY in. They are ON MESSAGE. I only know Lee in passing and salute his efforts - We need to break the lock on events and rules and committees and stuff to just have fun and make things happen. I truly think a lot of very well meaning clever people have apparently lost sight of what they are doing in some instances, and become bound up in conventions and cliques.

 

The hobby is in danger of going Dynorod because it's getting so for up it's own plumbing. Not good. We all have vehicles in mind that we find less appealing, but we are supposed to be ALL INCLUSIVE.....a broad church.

 

HMVF has the opportunity to do this and knock the old rivalries and crap on the head.

It might not last forever, but I don't want to see anybody alienated for no better reason than period bias. Muppetry.

 

Bring back "All For One and One For All".

 

I've had my rant. Keep the faith.

[Welbourn]

We've heard it all before and it's just as boring to listen to as it's ever been.

 

Clive and I do WW2 oriented historically related WW2 events and post war vehicles are not welcome - so if you are hurt or offended by this, pick your toys up, put them back in your pram or Champ of Humber Pig and go bleet at somebody else who feels inclined to listen. We aren't, as it's like listening to a very sad stuck record.

 

Alternatively channel your spare energy (as you obviously have plenty of it to spare) in getting the chip off of your shoulders and satisfying your need for love and inclusion.

 

I might even come to one of your events, to re-live my own experieces with post-war vehicles - 3 years on CVRW. The MVT is broad church, but I joined it to get involved in WW2 vehicles. Subsequently it has satisfied my desire for post war vehicle contact and still does, but that doesn't make pot war vehicles welcome at one of our WW2 events and it never will.

 

If you don't like the link with the MVT, complain. That is what democracy is about. If the MVT think Clive has stepped out of line or abused his position, they will tell him and I'm sure he will toe the line accordingly. If you still don't like what the MVT say, stad for election and start to change the way it is operated - it's a free world (thanks to what WW2 vehciles have done)!

 

The post war wingers (and I know that it's only a hard core minority) need to understand that we don't seek or need their approval to do what we are doing, so they really are pissing in to the wind on this one. Stop acting so hard done by and get a life or better still get a Jimmy so that we can include you! You're probably quite nice people underneath all that scrim net and attitude!

 

Love, peace and GMC's to all, but I'd still rather push a jeep than drive a Champ!

[Marmite!!]

Thanks for your comments Sapper but I can't take all the credit, it was a Joint effort by our founder members.. John Tucker, Ian Bridge Jnr & Snr, Steve Morris, Davey Nichols, & Dave Roberts... better weather booked for next year...

 

As for Neil Steven's post this is the mentality we are talking about... after comments like that OPERATION BOLERO or any other show organised by yourselves should be under the banner of the MVT... Your comments are an insult to all MV owners...

[saracenstump]

looks like the muppets are out again!i think some of you should come down to the essex end of the country!you should of been out with us during this year, as a not very proactive postwar owner i was out almost every weekend staring from january all the way till now with my other postwar non proactive mv owners doing our bit organizing shows filling events promoting the so called mv hobby to the public,veterans and any and other organisations that wanted something green or a stand!we all go around with and dont turn away any vehicle what ever its age! so i suggest some people pull their heads out of the sand and get their own potato off their own shoulders(a chip is too small) and belt up!

as i recall when it rained at the w&p peace show a couple of years ago and it was a jeep event no-one went into the arena because they didnt want to get wet! now thats taking the mick!my vehicles go out whatever the weather, if i say i'd do something, so i've been hot ,wet and cold!

i know not all ww2 owners have the same narrowminded outlook as some so this rant isn't aimed at them and i do work well with them and will always bendover backwards to because they are like me MILITARY VEHICLE OWNERS! rant over!

[ArtistsRifles]

Ouch!!!! :-(

 

Please, please, please can the claws be drawn in on this one peoples????

 

Some good points were made in preceeding postings about the need for including all vehicles balanced against the requirement for "period" events but getting into a defined "them and us" words match does none of us any favours. Now or long term.

 

Yes, it would be nice if more people could share the burden of organizing events - I'd love too but don't have that amount of time. What spare time I do have is concentrated on keeping little Maud up and running so I'm thankful for the events that are there and that we are welcome too.

I've never tried working on a Jeep or GMC but from postings I've read on here access is relatively good and parts relatively easy to come by. Please correct me if I'm wrong on this folks.

Compare this with trying to get parts for any of the FV600 range of vehicles - or trying to do simple jobs like clutch and throttle hydraulics. Hanging upside down like a myopic fruit bat only follows actually finding the part required. But we do it nonetheless so vehicles from the 50's through the 90's are still available.

Purely on a personal level a jeep or GMC doesn't really interest me because I'm an engineer not a historian and it'the mechanics that get my interest; in addition I've no interest in dressing the part to suit the vehicle era and I suspect if I had managed to get hold of a DUKW I'd probably be as welcome at "period" events with that as I would be with the Stalwart because I would not be dressed in age related attire.

 

All this said - would it really, really be so hard, provided an event was not specifically themed for a certain era, to welcome all who are prepared to use their time and money to get a vehicle there for the public to enjoy by arranging the vehicles on display by period?? Or to try and balance the themed events with inclusive ones??

Again - speaking for myself - if an event were publicized on the forum that was:

 

1) Within comfortable driving range - say within 50 miles of base for a W/E event

and

2) I had no mechanical problems prevented attendance

3) I had the money for the fuel

4) The wife hadn't booked us to be elsewhere in the diary

 

Then I would do my level best to attend. I'm sure other post -war owners would probably say the same though!! this was only my first season attending events with a vehicle - but from what I've seen the post-war equipment such as the FV600 series drew a goodly few people looking and asking questions.

 

Perhaps those who do have the time to organize events might respond to a polite request for post-war inclusion to be at least considered in future??????

 

(If any one does manage to organize a post-war trip back to BAOR - stick my name on the list please!! :-) :-) )

 

Edit: post was meant to follow SafariSwings.... Some one beat me to it though!!

 

[saracenstump]

neil(artistsrifles) i think you hit the nail on the head,what ever event the main theme is on as i feel this gives a representation of how these vehicles have progressed.

a few of us were asked to attend operation ajax in october and went along and enjoyed the saturday greatly as we were elsewhere on the sunday and have been asked to reattend next year and put on a more comprehensive display.the event was ww2 themed so we didnt park in the ww2 camps but over to one side but never the less still helped the show. we weren't turned away eventhough we only had a couple of landrovers and spoke to people who had driven them and are now interested in other things,whatever its age if its green it will bring in the punters!!

[berni]

where are all these ww11 only shows?

i am not being deliberatly dumb but am generally interested. I am also a secretary of our local MVT and our chairman owns a ferrett and a S111 109.

maybe it is the location we live but the only MVT shows i know of are

Kemble military - all vehicles welcome and that is it really.

 

Dean forest railway used to be multi period when it first started untill The organiser, Ken Davies, decided he only wanted ww11 & now he only has 5-6 vehicles turn up & some of them were post war (september)

 

this is what we have done this year

jan 8th glos mvt road run-2 jeeps were the only ww11 all the rest were PW

mar 19th glos docks rd run for back badge day - multi age

apr 17th coleford carnival of transport - multi age

may 12-13.castle coombe rally - multi age

may 20-21 little vintage rally - multo age

may 27-29 horndean - multi age

jun 16-18 north nibley rally - multi age

jun 23-25 kemble military - multi age

jul 8-9 cirencester park show - multi age

jul 15-23 beltring - multi age show

jul 29-30 welland rally - multi age

aug 4-6 kemble steam - multi age

aug 11-12 bristol docks WW11 only

aug 26-28 detling - multi age ( all mvs put in separate field regardless of age)

sep 1-3 great dorset - multi age

sep 8-9 swindon & cricklade railway - multi age

sep 17 tredegar house - multi period

sep 23-24 crudwell MVt end of season - multi age

 

in the above list there is only 1 ww11 only event & that is billed as a 1940's event which on the dockside in Bristol.

that is 1/18

we also popped in to Bovvy to the end of season meet & there were vehicles of multi age & also as said dean forest.

 

we may be lucky in this part of the world for shows & i fully sympathise with PW owners who feel they are excluded but i have never let that get me down, we were PW owners longer than WW11 owners . I felt it was a help rather than a hinderance, for a start my 109 could go faster than 35 mph, it also had niclely fitting doors & windscreen with a heater of sorts which made shows a bit further away more accessbile.

this hobby is what you make it & i decided to get off my behind & become an active member of our MVT area. Many of our friends have PW vehicles & we always save each other spaces at shows.

PW is the future, well it shouldn't be classed as PW, it should be post 45.

ww1 was the war to end all wars so anything before 1945 is still post war.

so, P45 is the future of the hobby and should be nurtured as such.

 

i want to say so much more but am getting grief as i promised to sort out the attic today & haven't got the ladder ready yet.

i look forward to the rest of this debate

Berni

 

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

The post war wingers (and I know that it's only a hard core minority) need to understand that we don't seek or need their approval to do what we are doing, so they really are peeing in to the wind on this one. Stop acting so hard done by and get a life or better still get a Jimmy so that we can include you! You're probably quite nice people underneath all that scrim net and attitude!

 

 

What a wonderfull mindset you have Mr Stevens, I commend you on your narrow minded bigotry in what is supposed to be an all encompassing hobby.

 

I wonder if you would be so minded if I were the owner of a Jimmy or a Dodge or even a Jeep, I somehow doubt it.

 

You see this as whinging whereas we see it as a genuine concern that there is an elitism being propogated that should never have been there in the first place.

 

I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that throughout this thread you have heard most if not all PW owners state their admiration of WW2 vehicles and their restoration. I do not think you have heard any of the posters state that they are superior to, or wish to exclude WW2 owners from any event, yet it would appear that you as a WW2 owner wish that and I am sure there are many more like you or lets face it, most of us PW owners would'nt be feeling as we do.

 

Is this the same in all regions? I am not sure for if you take what Berni has said it would appear not.

 

Is it prevalent throughout most regions? I would say yes as the posts made here voicing the PW opinion are not just from one area of the country.

 

It is understood that there will be events that are "specific" to WW2 and as such most of the PW owners accept that their presence would be out of place, but to exclude those owners on the scale that is being encountered is almost criminal to say the least.

 

Yes we have put our own shows on and did so with the mindset that ALL vehicle owners were welcome because as has been stated so many times we are trying to ensure the historical value of the vehicles as well as the conflicts they have served in.

 

As has been stated there have been conflicts other than WW2 and whilst that has a certain, for want of another word, "romantasism" about it, it is not the be all and end all of the MV movement.

 

Ive probably camped next to you at Beltring or one of the other larger shows but has that made me think of you any differently? Until today no, but with your comments I am perhaps now of a different mindset.

 

Until the attitude of yourself and many like you change this particular "gap" will allways be there, but then again there are always purists in whatever field one gets into.

 

"Grabs GWT's can of petrol and sprinkles a little more on the flames"

[Mark]

IMPS = Invicta Military Vehicle Preservation Society

 

MVT = Military Vehicle Trust

 

Says it all really

 

:wink:

[saracenstump]

IMPS = Invicta Military Vehicle Preservation Society

 

MVT = Military Vehicle Trust

 

Says it all really

 

:wink:

 

hear hear!

[Jessie The Jeep]

To those that say the MVT or other clubs aren't biased I suggest looking at the North East MVT's Events gallery as an example, 16 events attended, count the very post war vehicles... they either have very few post war vehicles in their club in which case you have to ask the question why or they prefer photos of WW2 MV's...Biased?? anyone on here from N.E.MVT care to comment?

they do have a link to HMVF though :wink:

 

Events Gallery

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/events.htm

 

Member's Mv's

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/members.htm

 

Articles

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/nemvt/articles.htm

 

 

 

I run the NE MVT website, and if you look through the members pages, you will see why there are virtually no post war vehicles in the gallery - almost everyone in the group has WW2 era vehicles. The only post war vehicles are the Champ, a DAF 66 and my M201 ( if you want to think of that as much different to a Willys in looks ). I can't post pictures of non-existant vehicles!

 

Most of the events we attend are small local village fetes etc, involving only our group, hence the vehicles on display in the gallery. Occasionally we attend a larger local event, where there is a larger selection of vehicles to see, but not often.

 

We haven't been able to have a large area show because of venue troubles, 'though we hope to have something for the end of summer 07. Perhaps some post war owners will be prepared to travel North to attend and show us some of these more modern vehicles. If they do, I'll see they go on the website. Until then, you're stuck with what we have.

 

Steve

 

ps I asked Ken for an article about his Champ for the website, when he has time, but I'm still waiting at present. I can only post information I am presented with.

[Welbourn]

Some of you guys need to lighten up and remember that for most people MV's are what we get involved with away from the daily grind! Your lives may need suitably enlivening by making the hobby more like a workers co-operative in communist Russia, but mine doesn't. Nice to know I've ruffled a few feathers amongst the more precious darlings out there, but do stand back and take a look at yourselves please!

 

For those that have been offended, I suggest you visit the Flame Warriors home page at:

 

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm

 

and decide which caricature you best resemble in the database of online discussion forum contributor traits.

 

For those that own PW vehicles and haven't taken offence, 'praise the Lord'! Maybe like me, you are sat there smiling at the passion generated by such a non-subject and wondering when the rest of the deeply hurt and offended MV contributors will realise. Or you remember when your Scammel Explorer towed my GMC home after a terminal case of the gremlins! Ok so I did wear a bag over my head due to the shame and pretended that from behind I was really looking at a Diamond T.....

 

I've got to go now and post comments on the National Bus Preservation Forum, regarding the exclusion of non-London Transport Routemasters from the annual London Transport Routemaster rally and then have a go at the Trans Pennine Commercial Vehicle rally organisers for their Northern bias and lack of events in Sussex!

 

Keep smiling and to subvert WHY DON'T YOU's old catch line, why don't you leave this particular thread and go and do one much more interesting!