Post War MVT - you are joking!

[Marmite!!]

Yes that is a good point Lee and no to sure of the answer to that one. Maybe it is because post war had very little know effect on our country - go abroad and you may have more luck. WW2 as we all know has had a long lasting physical effect on this country and will continue to do so.

 

Perhaps the Cold/post war guys need to start an event that caters for there pleasures - I would certainly attend as an MoP. Has this ever been tried?

 

 

Jack,

 

I don't think that would be the answer either, we put on a show this year at Kelvedon Secret Nuclear Bunker, it was featured in MMI "Ice Cold in Essex" it was billed as a Cold War show but was open to everyone.

 

A lot of groups these days have a mixture of WW2 & post war MV's so I think that the organizers should bear this in mind.

 

This event is going under the banner of Suffolk MVT so how can they tell their members with post war MV's they are not welcome??

 

 

As for the MVT Xmas card, why can't it be all post war MV's this year for a change?? anyone from the MVT care to coment??

 

[Jack]

I don't no the answer Lee but if for instance you and lets say Artists Rifles were holding a post war event then it wouldn't be to relevant if I arrived in my Jimmy?!

 

I am in total agreement with you with regards to the MVT's apparent biased towards WW2.....

[Jack]

As someone pointed out to me the other day - that the MVT have changed there banner on their website and that 'funny enough it looks very much like HMVF's banner'

 

Perhaps we may of answered the question - have a look at their banner and count how many WW2 vehicles there are on there. When we done our banner ages ago (thanks Oddball) I was very conscious of getting the balance.

[ArtistsRifles]

Just took a look an the MVT page - if I'm right then out of 10 vehicle pictured only 1 is post war, the Saladin, far right on the bottom banner.

 

Could be a contentious issue this one..... :-o

 

Speaking personally - and not for any one else - I would love to be able to afford a WW2 vehicle - but the ones that "float my boat" as iwhere, DUKW's, are so far out of reach they might as well be on the moon. So to be able to have an MV I've gone post-war with the Stalwart and theres no regrets on my part.

 

I've also been exceptionally lucky in that Lee, John (FV601) and Stuart (Saracenstump) and the other ladies and gentlemen from the AMVG and Essex A&S have "adopted" me and little Maud here in Essex from day 1 as it were so there are events I can go to in company, always having a willing volunteer for the Commanders seat/hatch, where post war vehicles are welcome! :-) :-)

[commander]

I think that you are bashing the MVT over the calender which they have

no control over it is the area which does it for the year that deceides

what goes in to the calender not the MVT hirearchy just my 2 penny worth

Commander

[Marmite!!]

I think that you are bashing the MVT over the calender which they have

no control over it is the area which does it for the year that deceides

what goes in to the calender not the MVT hirearchy just my 2 penny worth

Commander

 

 

We didn't even mention their WW2 calenders.. thanks for reminding us, I was under the impression that it was done at national level..

 

It doesn't seem to matter if it's at National or Local level, the MVT in general seem to have a problem catering for post war owners, they seem to forget us when putting on these shows billed as WW2 vehicles only.. When was the last time you saw one of there shows advertised as post war only :?

 

Our local MVT has got better over the last year after a group of us put this point across, it use to be a them & us situation... they actualy talk to us now..

 

Still waiting to see if anyone from the MVT will seak up, we know they watch this Forum

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Dear oh dear oh dear !!!!!

 

One does'nt want to get me started on this particular subject as I will wax a little less than lyrical, in fact the expeletives will be red hot and rolling off the page if I really get my teeth into it.

 

It is my Saladin that adorns the MVT main page so in some respects I am a little biased but with that said I will just speak about what we have found this year alone.

 

As Lee has already stated we as a group put on what was advertised as a Post War event at the beginning of the show season this year and deliberately made sure that WW2 vehicles were not left out as that in our opinion would not be correct according to the ethos that supposedly surrounds the whole idea of being Military Vehicle owners.

 

Since then we have organised or attended some 15+ events this past year continuing in that same vein.

 

There has been no discrimination regarding WW2 vehicles not being allowed to attend, nor has there been any form of seperatism displayed or even hinted at by those of us who have attended towards WW2 vehicle owners.

 

Yet here again it is Post War vehicle owners en masse who are being discriminated against just because we don't own something that can be atributed to have "served" during a specific period in time.

 

If truth be known manufacturing during the war years contributed to the extensive amount of WW2 vehicles being available even now, production was sometimes into the tens of thousands and what with most of the armies in free europe being re equipped with American vehicles due to political reasons, its no wonder there are so many of them on the MV scene. That said however there are vehicles that although they may have been built during that specific time, that have never seen service or action during WW2.

 

That added to the fact that if one so wished one could build a Jeep totally out of parts readilly available from a variety of sources in my opinion makes life a little easier for those people who follow the WW2 route.

 

Due to the limited production runs of some Post War vehicles it is in fact a lot harder to obtain spares or parts required for their restoration as stocks of such have in some respects long been depleted or are sold at such a high premium that one has to take out a small mortgage just to keep them on the road.

 

I personally like a lot of the WW2 stuff out there but perhaps I am a little more biased to the rarer bits and pieces that are in such short supply rather than the never ending lines of Jeeps and Jimmy's, and before anyone says I am knocking those owners believe me I am not. Its just that it appears to a lot of people that is all one sees in abundance at shows.

 

But then again I suppose its horses for courses and as they say whatever floats your boat is the way most will go.

 

I just feel its a shame that there is such a division in the main clubs associated with our hobby.

[Enigma]

I am into WW2 vehicles, HOWEVER I also like postwar ones.

I agree post war vehicles are being looked at as being "inferior"or whatever.

They are also worthwhile and have lots of history to those who served or fought in them.

 

Guess WW2 has mor of a "romantic" appeal to them.

 

About WW2 vehicles and actual combatuse? I agree lots never been used in the fighting.

Also a reason why there are relatively many late war Dodges or early 1/2 ton Dodges around is simple. Late war couldn't have seen much action and 1/2 ton Dodges (also early Jeeps-training) stayed in the US while 3/4 ton Dodges went to war.

 

My WC 21 came to Europe in the late 40's.I presume it served in the war in the US.

No markings were left and no history of this vehicle was to be found.

 

Guess 1 big reason why I like Beltring is to meet people with other vehicles I don't normally see like Lee's Fox, Sirhc's vehicles or the Stalward.

WW2 Dodges, Jeeps and GMC are to be seen at all MV meetings....

[ian2b]

Hi Jack, I think when you first did your banner there was only ww2 vehicles on there untill someone made a comment and after that it changed.

As for events i dont think any event should be ww2 or post war. Most vehicles are post war it just depends on which war they served in and i think people should realise that ww2 is not the only war that our country has lost servicemen and women in. I can understand that sometimes organisers like to depict a certain era at events but not at the expense of other mv owners and club members and friends. If their vehicle is not of the era maybe they can be asked to follow at the back of a convoy or have an area within the show for their vehicles so they can still take part and be part of the group be it mvt / imps or anyother group out there.

 

As for the calender Commander why again is an MVT area club not catering for all vehicle owners. I would be surprised if there are only ww2 vehicles in that area. Still cant just pick on the mvt as the imps only have ww2 vehicles on their main page.

[Marmite!!]

 

It is my Saladin that adorns the MVT main page so in some respects I am a little biased but with that said I will just speak about what we have found this year alone.

 

 

 

Turncoat :wink: :evil: :evil:

[Jack]

Here what you are saying Ian but......I don't expect you to be aware of this, but the first banner that we had up was all WW2 because that was the only images we had - we wanted to use the one with all periods on but Oddball and I weren't happy with until we had the permission of the owners of the vehicles to use their images. Once permissions were given the correct banner went up.

 

It is a strange stat but I would say that we have more post war members than anything else. So perhaps we need to bring up the profile of our post war history to the public at large. That said and as I have stated on the forum else where that everytime I have attended a show with Hardy Ferret I don't get a look in......everyone walks past my Jimmy heading straight for Jerrys Ferret!

[Marmite!!]

That said and as I have stated on the forum else where that everytime I have attended a show with Hardy Ferret I don't get a look in......everyone walks past my Jimmy heading straight for Jerrys Ferret!

 

 

That's a problem with Armour Jack, be it WW2 or Post was, big or small they do tend to be kid magnets usually with parents in tow.. or was the parents dragging the kids..:-)

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

I think you might find that is more due to the fact that it is Armour Jack rather than interest in vehicles persay.

 

 

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Hovering again Lee?? :evil: :evil: :evil:

That's a problem with Armour Jack, be it WW2 or Post was, big or small they do tend to be kid magnets usually with parents in tow.. or was the parents dragging the kids..

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Funny thing with the Armour though Jack

 

We often get WW2 vets come up to us with our Post War bits and pieces and they INSIST that they have used them during their time in service.

 

Just goes to show I guess that like a Jeep all bits of armour appear the same to some people :roll: :-D

[sirhc]

To most people a truck is a truck if it is painted green or not, and anything armoured is automatically a tank. This is why armour gets more attention, if you want to look at trucks go for a drive on the motorway...

 

As for the post war/ww2 debate I don't think any shows should turn away people who make the effort to put petrol in a vehicle and turn up. Unfortunatley most of the shows these days are 1940s themed, and I have known people to be turned away, or put in a seperate field away from everyone else after driving for hours in something post war. This kind of attitude from show owners is not called for, hopefully one day the public and show organisers will realise there is more to military history than saving private ryan.

 

Chris

 

[Jack]

But surely if Great War Truck put on a WW1 event then it would be rather daft of me to turn up in a WW2 truck :?

 

Bearing in mind that GWT says that any truck post 1918 is post war!

[sirhc]

If Great War Truck put on an event I think he would need as many exibits as possible, otherwise there wouldn't be much of an event? Besides, he would be excluded from a 1940s weekend too!

[Jack]

If Great War Truck put on an event I think he would need as many exibits as possible, otherwise there wouldn't be much of an event? Besides, he would be excluded from a 1940s weekend too!

 

 

Flipping heck - I can't win :cry:

[sirhc]

I'm sorry Jack, but you may have started to realise there are an awful lot of quite bitter post war MV owners out there, and every year the number of events we can attend goes down!

[FV601 (R.I.P.)]

Jack

 

I dont think its a question of winning

 

In fact that sort of attitude is what goes towards making the difference between Post war and WW2 such an issue.

 

I am sure I speak for most of the Post War owners here in saying we are not trying to "win" anything other than recognition that we too own MILITARY vehicles and not some undescript piece of crap that a lot of WW2 owners seem to think we own.

 

An MV show should be just that, a show for ALL MV owners not just a select few

[Marmite!!]

 

As for the post war/ww2 debate I don't think any shows should turn away people who make the effort to put petrol in a vehicle and turn up. Unfortunatley most of the shows these days are 1940s themed, and I have known people to be turned away, or put in a seperate field away from everyone else after driving for hours in something post war.

Chris

 

 

 

At least we drive ours to shows Chris, you see many Jeeps on trailers being taken to shows, Why?? whats the point in having these MV's if you don't drive them?

[Marmite!!]

I'm sorry Jack, but you may have started to realise there are an awful lot of quite bitter post war MV owners out there, and every year the number of events we can attend goes down!

 

 

I think Jack does realise that, it was Jack that split the original thread as he would like some answers to this problem too..

 

Hi Lee.

 

Hope all is well!

 

Just to let you know that I have moved your reply about Post War MVT to other chatter as it is a good debate that needs to happen as I have a lot of unanswered questions on that point too!

 

Take care.

 

Jack.

 

[Jack]

Thanks John.

 

But you maybe misunderstanding me. I am with you guys here - I too, get rather frustrated with the snobbery that prevails this movement and that is why I consciously called this site HMVF - Historic Military Vehicle Forum and not WW2 Vehicle Forum - as to me, all military vehicles are historic in there own right. After all these are essentially machines of war.

 

Maybe I am saying that it is irrelevant bringing a WW2 Vehicle to a post war event and irrelevant bringing a post war vehicle to a WW2 event.

 

I have recognise from the start that the post war guys in this movement are completely under exploited and again that is way this isn't a WW2 forum.

[Great War truck]

Oh good. An interesting argument. Just to add more flame to the fire i would like to say that:

 

1). In the latest edition of Windscreen (MVT), if you ignore the pages relating to shows, tours, club reports etc, there were zero pages relating to WW2 vehicles alone; one page realting to WW1 trucks and 35 relating to post war trucks and trailers. The cover was of a scammel Explorer.

 

2). When we did a WW1 truck show there were 5 WW1 trucks and no others. No public either. I had a good time, brilliant in fact. Largest gathering of working WW1 trucks seen in this country for a long time.

 

3). We (MVT) did a road run earlier this year. All were invited (everything whatever it was). We had 15 vehicles in all, including one post war Jeep and a civilian Land Rover. I must be guilty as charged as when i tried to take a photo of us all in line along a road, i tried to keep the civilian (never a military one i must say) Land Rover out of the picture and felt slightly dissapointed that my photo of all these green machines (including post war one) would have a brown and white Land Rover in the middle of them.

 

Guilty as charged. Yes possibly by some. Do the post war machine owners have a valid argument. Yes they do, but things are not that bad are they . The words "slight persecution complex" do spring to mind.

 

I love post war stuff. Can not think of any situation that i have been involved in where they have pushed to the back.

 

Hold 2 gallon tin of petrol in left hand, sprinkle liberally on the fire.

 

Tim (too)