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Originality

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I would be interested to know what you think of engine and drive train changes that can't be seen but can be heard?

 

I am guilty of this sin, reluctantly and as a last resort though, I think the sound is as important as the look of an old vehicle.

sometimes reliability is a must and seeing the vehicle under its own steam is better than static, surely.

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
I would be interested to know what you think of engine and drive train changes that can't be seen but can be heard?

 

I am guilty of this sin, reluctantly and as a last resort though, I think the sound is as important as the look of an old vehicle.

This is a difficult one,i think as many of the larger vehicles were used post war and converted for good reasons its acceptable it shows the vehicles path through time and continuing history.It helps if this imfo is on a board explaining whats known about a vehicles past.If it means the vehicle can still be shown due to cheaper running costs otherwise it may not then thats fine .:-D

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Crikey you are alive only talking about you at the wk end.thought you had fallen down a hole or something.dont worry it was all complimentary.

 

Never argue with an idiot. John.

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I passed comment on here last year after seeing a NEKAF M38A1 at a show which was bearing American markings & had the original data plates replaced with repro American ones . I asked then what the point was ? It is the same as the multitude of Hotchkiss jeeps as already spoken about by BP44 . What is wrong with exhibiting the machine as a NEKAF jeep & explaining the reasons & differences for those who don't know ?

Well said. John

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Guest catweazle (Banned Member)
Never argue with an idiot. John.

:thumbsup::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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My view on originality is that if a vehicle is rare, historically significant with a known past, or is in a living history display or museum, then it should be as accurate as possible inside and out.

 

But if someone has say a Landrover that left service as plain and uninspiring as most, then there is nothing wrong with the owner tarting it up a wee bit, as long as he admits it when asked!

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I have really enjoyed this thread. Other than the plates, my MUTT will have nothing on it that doesn't go. Partly because I can't be arrrssed and partly cos I am too blimmin' busy.

 

Party on, brothers.

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The Malaysians and the Jordanians are putting new Deutz engines in theirs. So theirs will sound different!

 

Yes, sound is important, I can't imagine a Ferret without the B60 burbling away. Maybe my last post was a bit narrow minded... I know that sometimes you have to compromise originality to keep a vehicle on the road, or improve safety such as adding indicators and mirrors. If the engine change keeps a vehicle on the road rather than on a slow boat to China then I can't see anything wrong with that!

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I suppose having 2 landrovers I can say I'm not really guilty of making them what they are not.

 

My FFR simply had one wing box, and snowblinds like the holes on the body suggested. The wing box was wired in and it was a "FFR" hence the cables and the 90amp generator.

I resisted all stickers and other fancy items you can chuck all over them.

 

I did change its guise to EOD RE, More because of my time with RE EOD. but again, nothing fancy, no painted wheel nuts.. anything "red" that should not be.. no "Marines" stickers and flags

 

 

My new 110 GS will be just that.. a green 110 GS. with no stickers. Incorrect "madmax" style paint camo job.

Just Green. No wing boxes.. no aerials .. no vegetable rack on the bonnet and nothing bolted on that I can see no evidence for. Only reason I ever placed things on the FFR was the original mountings had been there.

 

IE rear door on the FFR for tools

 

But as much as it annoys some the owner has the right to do what they like.. its just a shame at shows as you all say.. people are misled to think that its the "correct" in service specification..

 

The Bowman stickers.. no excuse! haha

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There's also the issue of the condition the vehicle arrived in when you bought it, as well as it's relative value, to restore, keep as is, or upgrade. My ex-mil 110 V8 arrived civilianised and mucked about with, with a 200 Tdi, and the original carb V8 in the back, and fat offroad tyres. So back to original? Petrol V8 in this day and age? I haven't researched it's history yet, so don't know if it is anything interesting, but for something like that, there is a very defined value that these things are worth overall, and that sort of things defines to a certain extent what you want to do with it. 110s are two a penny. Currently that is, and Bowman stickers, whilst I agree that sort of thing, blue flashing lights and too much 'idle time tarting up' is simply tedious, Land Rovers are very accessible as an entry into the mil vehicle scene. Loads of parts available to change things to your hearts content - look at all the magazine ads, and with the added goodness of the 'green' accent. What's not to like?! but it's the passing off the vehicle as something that it is not and never was that does get my goat frankly. However, at some point our descendants will have the joy of shaking their heads at what has gone before and enjoy the opportunity of putting my 110 back to it's original glory, bolt by bolt.

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I guess my point is its always these pimped vehicles we see in magazines or on the web, rather than accurate vehicles.

 

I guess this point is going to take up a fair bit of a certain new young editor's time! :sweat:

Edited by gritineye

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The Malaysians and the Jordanians are putting new Deutz engines in theirs. So theirs will sound different!

 

Lads,

Here's food for thought.... Our sherman is an M4A4, so it's supposed to have a multibank. Unfortunately, after the war the Italians binned these for C4 radials (which are wrong anyway). I want to install a multibank and hang the consequences, and if we keep the radial the tank should be finished off in postwar Italian colours, whilst another says that the radial stays and it gets it's proper British livery. Just to add some spice to the mix, another wants to keep the radial and do it in U.S. colours.....Seeing as I'm the one that would be doing most of the work I've told them to go away and have a good think about things and to come back with a different mindset. If you've got any sensibility it's the vehicle that tells you how it needs to be done, and in any case, if you want a U.S. Sherman I suppose that there is always the option of buying one... As an aside, thanks to a fair amount of ear bashing, a mates' Grizzly will soon be resplendant in Canadian markings!

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Dont forget the rd traffic act applies to the showground therefore we will all be commiting an offence.

But you know what who gives a fig,anyone approaches me i will siht in his hat and punch it.:-D

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

 

You beat me to it Andy, I was just about to post exactly the same comment. CW's post just cracked me up.

 

As for the vehicles I don't understand why some body buys an ex mil Land Rover or anything else come to that and then tarts it up like a pimpmobile.

In the case of the LR there's thousands of civi ones out there that can be

accesssorised, the only limitation to what you can do is the depth of your pocket. I have a term for these people but I can't use it on here.:-D

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Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but get more and more wound up when I see vehicles with all sorts of junk bolted on to them. I really can't understand why people can't be happy with what they've got. Instead they either try to make them into something they aren't, or just bolt bits on because they feel like it. Land Rovers are the worst, I've just looked through the photos of Chatham at the weekend and here's a selection of what I'm talking about...

 

1) This Lightweight was probably released before Clansman came in to service. Why is it wearing a Clansman wing box? Why does that wing box have a current issue Bowman sticker on it?

 

P1110836.jpg

 

 

Rant over, I think I'd better go for a lie down..........

 

Chris

 

With you 100% Chris - however I would say in a partial defense of this one that 21 were one of the rirst units to be issued with Clansman - and we did have a couple of S2A lightweights fitted with these wing boxes. So it would be possible to see a S2A with Clansman boxes - but I suspect no from the unit shown. Also - ours were all soft tops. No excuse, as others have said, for the Bowman strickers though!!

 

What is "originality" many mods were done in the field, most famous the Sherman tank with the "Bank buster" welded on the front . Today our armoured vehicles in combat zones have add on armour that was not originally envisaged. I have had idiots come up to me and tell me that my SAS land rover wasnt right because it was painted green and black and not pink. I believe in your assment of the various Land Rovers, too new for me to know anything about them, but as for WWII vehicles ,once used in combat many had add ons which the purists today drip on about. Colonel Weld told me that he had two leather seats fitted into his Jeep in Italy. That would make the "Rivet Counters" have a fit if that was done to a Jeep today. My pet hate is Hotchkiss Jeeps done up as a WWII jeep. John

 

Again - in the late Seventies 21 had some of these on call, mainly stored at, IIRC, Recklinghausen (sp?) and of course - they were green and black!!

You might have to look hard to see one - minus operational kit - being used for training here in the UK in this pic:

21_2.jpg

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I've always taken the view that people can do what ever they want to their vehicles. Take a gas axe to a steam roller and turn it into a showman's tractor if you want. I think it looks like crap but that's none of my business. In the end it doesn't really matter. However, I also belive that many originality faux pas are committed out of ignorance rather than malice or spite.

 

If there is an argument that if someone displays something which is original then is there not a counter argument that if you have something original then you should display it? Not necessarily by driving it to a field but at least by making the results of your research and work available.

 

Perhaps those who complain loudest about things which aren't original should have their legs slapped until they produce a full archive of what is original on a particular vehicle.:-D

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As far as I'm concerned my Dodge is original, except the Norwegians changed the engine sometime about 1963, it has trafficators fitted, and the fuel feed pipe is cupro nickel not steel. More importantly every piece of kit displayed on it is period. Some is civillian kit, but hey it was lying around, seemed a shame to leave it for the enemy! :-D

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You do have to be careful with stating that certain things on a vehicle are wrong. A friend used to have a Morris Predictor, he spent ages trying to find any photos or indication of what the predictor part should look like. When it was out at the first show someone started to tell him that it was all wrong. His reaction - "good, can you tell me how it's supposed to be?":) Needless to say the person walked away quietly!:-D

 

So long as the vehicle isn't permanently modified so it can't be returned to original then I can't see a problem. A lot of vehicles were heavily modified over their life and can be returned to anyone of a dozen different specs and still be correct!:)

 

Although I did draw the line at a recent show where there was pioneer that had been restored to it's civilan spec by the recovery company that still owns it. Looked fine from a distance, but when you got close you could see that they had painted over the winch ropes! Makes you wonder at the rest of the restoration!:sweat:

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Finally, I'm not alone! :D

 

I know what you mean about the plates CW, I have magnetic or easily removable plates for all of the armour and the Wolf. Only vehicle I don't swap the plates on is the Lightweight, but I'll order some if it makes you happy!

Shoulder to shoulder beside you marra.

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Greetings from the grassy knoll,

 

Pays your money - makes your choices.

 

This is a great debate. Not new. A 'for' and 'against' in print would appeal to me if anyone fancies a pop at it.

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Kevin Lowden (the owner of the 110 defender) and myself (the owner of the sand coloured S2A airportable) are happy that the members of this forum have the opportunitity to discuss this subject at length. We doubt if anyone would have had this freedom of speech if were not for our past and present armed forces, that have fought for the privilage of free speech. This freedom of expression surely extends to how individuals portray their vehicles. We are more than happy to discuss objectively any accessories fitted at any of this years events. This in no way admits that we are wrong, we just don't care!

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I hope I didn't offend either of you too much, the pics just illustrated a point I was trying to make.

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What about this one then...

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Lightweight-Light-weight-88-4x4_W0QQitemZ110406913618QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item19b4c3ce52&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1307%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

 

'You are bidding for a unique Land Rover - a totally original Lightweight 88.' Then he goes on to list 101 things which aren't original.

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