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Thread: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

  1. #121

    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    OK, Enough! Those of us in the UK are living in interesting times now. In the near future I think our hobby will be taking a low priority with regard to other things, but it's safe to say probably nothing is going to happen just yet. I will make a few emails, and I'll post the reply if I get any.

    There is scope for genuine non-political discussion about our scrap metal, let's keep it that way!
    Last edited by x2onion; 25-06-2016 at 16:51. Reason: speling

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  3. #122
    Join Date
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    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Remembering to keep this non-political (please!) here is the latest from Vicky Ford's Facebook page:

    The third trilogue on the Firearms Directive took place on 15 November. The fourth trilogue is agreed for 5 December. This is a normal and expected procedure.
    ......

    Deactivated Firearms

    It is important that deactivation of firearms should be irreversible and ensure the firearm is inoperable. The European Deactivation Regulation introduced in April 2016 sets a single standard for deactivation but has raised many practical issues for legitimate holders of these items, including reenactors.

    There is now a clearer understanding by the Council and the Commission of the issues faced by legitimate holders of these items and progress is being made on resolving implementing issues in the Deactivation Regulation. The Parliament is clear that the Expert Working Group on the Deactivation Regulation must have completed their work by early 2017.
    Regarding deactivations before April 2016, the Parliament position is that firearms deactivated to an equivalent previous standard should still be able to be bought and sold and Parliament suggests that national deactivation standards which are equivalent to the aims of the new EU standard adopted should be recognised as such. The Commission have now taken this concern on board and are working on new language to enable this.
    It is clear that the Commission will not be prepared to just rubber stamp all old deactivation standards so it will be up to each Member State to make the case for deactivations undertaken according to their previous system and the Commission to then approve on a case by case basis.

    Andy

  4. #123
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    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    The latest from Brussels (full text here): http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/e...ve-an-overview

    "Deactivated Weapons

    In order to strengthen deactivation regimes, the European Commission introduced a new deactivation regulation which came into force in April 2016. This sets a single standard for deactivation of firearms. However, technical implementation issues have arisen and some countries were concerned that the new standard would be less secure than their previous national regimes. Following pressure from Parliament, the European Commission has now re-convened a working group of experts from the EU member states to review the regulation. The Commission has pledged that a revision will be completed by early 2017.

    “The introduction of the deactivation regulation caused problems for legitimate holders of deactivated firearms such as historical re-enactors and those involved in film making etc, as it prohibits them from selling or transferring across borders any items deactivated prior to April 2016 unless the items are re-deactivated to the new standard, which is not technically possible in many cases. Following pressure from Parliament there will now be a process to assess national standards in use prior to April 2016. If the standards are accepted by the working group and Commission as equivalent, then items deactivated to that previous regime will be able to be bought, sold and transferred without requiring further modification”, explained Vicky Ford (ECR, UK).

    The Commission proposed that all deactivated firearms would become subject to the same registration and authorisation procedures as firearms. This was rejected by the co-legislators. Instead the negotiators agreed that newly deactivated firearms should be categorised in Category C and need to be declared to national authorities but will not require an authorisation or licence. This will not apply to existing deactivated firearms."

    A full vote by the full EU Parliament is expected in March. No political replies, please!

    Andy

  5. #124
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    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Well - it could have been worse - a lot worse. If Vicky Ford and her committee can swing it so that prior spec deac's can be bought and sold without needing to be upgraded to these new specs then a great deal will have been achieved over the original proposals.
    I believe the declaration in effect already occurs here as the Proof Houses retain copies of the deac certifications which can be viewed by Gov't inspectors on request.
    Neil.

    Dover Tunnel Team - entry hole plug!

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  6. #125
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    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Agreed Neil - these proposals are a significant walk back from the originals. On the subject of prior spec de-acs, I suspect the standard in force before April 2016 would be OK, I don't see the "old spec" standard passing the test. Just my opinion though. At least we'll be able to have de-acs.

    Andy

  7. #126

    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Some Good news at last. It hopefully means my collection isn't worth zero! In fact it may increase in value now.

  8. #127
    Join Date
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    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Unfortunately the UK news is less good than the EU news. Here's a couple of recent newsletters from Steven Kendrick of the DGCA:

    27/01/2017:
    "Barring some minor last minute fiddling, this is going to be the text of the
    amendments to the Firearms Directive:
    http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/...16-INIT/en/pdf


    It's passed out of committee so at this point only amendments on the floor
    of Parliament can be made and they would have to be minor to get approval
    from the Council and the Commission. It will become law sometime in April
    and then it has to be transposed into national legislation within 15 months.


    From the perspective of collectors of deactivated firearms, these are the
    practical implications:


    The acquisition of magazines that are intended for use with a centrefire
    semi-automatic firearm that hold more than 20 rounds or 10 rounds in the
    case of a centrefire semi-automatic "long firearm" (more than 60cm in OAL)
    is prohibited - this means you can keep them but you can't buy them.
    However if you've got an FAC and you've got authority for a Category B
    firearm (e.g. handgun, self-loading rifle/shotgun) that authority will be
    withdrawn if you're found in possession of such a magazine (unless you get
    authorisation on your FAC for the magazine, which is possible). So in other
    words, if you're unlicenced and you've got an AK-47, AR-15, etc. magazine
    you can keep them but you can't buy them unless they've been knackered
    first, e.g. by permanently pinning the capacity or removing one of the feed
    lips.


    Any deac deactivated before April 8th, 2016 is banned from "being placed on
    the market", which essentially means any form of transfer except possibly by
    bequest. There is a procedure whereby member states can apply to have older
    standards recognised as sufficient, best guess is that the Home Office will
    apply for equivalency for the post-95 standard, however I can't see them
    doing it for pre-95 deacs. So with the pre-95 deacs, you can keep them, but
    you can't sell them unless you have them redone to the 2016 standard, or
    you're able to export it outside of the EU (which includes Norway, Iceland
    and Switzerland for the purposes of this Directive). Only EU member states
    and a few other countries can apply for recognition, so if you've got say, a
    Russian spec deac, that's basically banned from transfer as well unless you
    get it redone to the new 2016 standard.


    They have said they will revisit the 2016 standard to make sure it is
    workable due to "technical issues". On the positive side, once the
    Directive is implemented, I can't see how they can stop EU/Schengen-wide
    trade in deacs anymore. So they may be more knackered, but you'll have more
    choice. At least until Brexit, lol.


    Worst of all (yes it gets worse), deacs have been put into Category C of the
    directive, i.e. "subject to declaration". What that will lead to I have no
    idea, but some sort of registration with the local police at a minimum. So
    if you're thinking "how will they know if I sell a pre-95 deac to someone",
    the answer is they will know, because you will be legally required to notify
    the police".


    And:


    31/01/2017
    "I had various responses to the last e-mail I sent out so for the sake of
    clarification, here is the actual explanatory text from the European
    Parliament:


    "In order to strengthen deactivation regimes, the European Commission
    introduced a new deactivation regulation which came into force in April
    2016. This sets a single standard for deactivation of firearms. However,
    technical implementation issues have arisen and some countries were
    concerned that the new standard would be less secure than their previous
    national regimes. Following pressure from Parliament, the European
    Commission has now re-convened a working group of experts from the EU member
    states to review the regulation. The Commission has pledged that a revision
    will be completed by early 2017.


    "The introduction of the deactivation regulation caused problems for
    legitimate holders of deactivated firearms such as historical re-enactors
    and those involved in film making etc, as it prohibits them from selling or
    transferring across borders any items deactivated prior to April 2016 unless
    the items are re-deactivated to the new standard, which is not technically
    possible in many cases. Following pressure from Parliament there will now
    be a process to assess national standards in use prior to April 2016. If
    the standards are accepted by the working group and Commission as
    equivalent, then items deactivated to that previous regime will be able to
    be bought, sold and transferred without requiring further modification",
    explained Vicky Ford (ECR, UK).


    The Commission proposed that all deactivated firearms would become subject
    to the same registration and authorisation procedures as firearms. This was
    rejected by the co-legislators. Instead the negotiators agreed that newly
    deactivated firearms should be categorised in Category C and need to be
    declared to national authorities but will not require an authorisation or
    licence. This will not apply to existing deactivated firearms."


    Okay so that makes it all sound clear, but there are some problems with it.


    First problem is that the actual text of the amended Directive is vague on
    the grandfather clause that is mentioned, it says essentially every
    deactivation done to the new regulation has to be declared to the
    authorities and then goes on to say member states can apply for their older
    specifications to be recognised as "equivalent". So if the application is
    granted, it's not clear on whether they then become retroactively subject to
    declaration.


    Second and more important problem is that in the House of Lords, the Home
    Office have fiddled with the amendments to the Firearms Act in the Policing
    and Crime Bill - before it said everything had to be done to the new EU spec
    to be legal to sell, it now says that the British specifications that "apply
    at the time" are the ones that matter. Part of this is because the current
    UK spec is not exactly the same as the EU spec, but it's also because the HO
    guidance on various things to do with deacs has weak legal underpinnings so
    they want the law changed (also because of Brexit but that's not as big of a
    reason as the HO is making it out to be). My opinion is that the UK won't
    bother to seek to have the older specs recognised as equivalent to the EU
    spec because there's no point - under the Firearms Act as amended you would
    have to update your deac to the latest specification in order to be able to
    sell or gift it anyway. And thus it would have to be declared to the
    authorities.


    I wouldn't panic too much about this "declaration" bit, they're not talking
    about licencing, it's likely to be some sort of simple form/letter/e-mail
    you send into the local police.


    But unfortunately, anything pre-April 2016 has been effectively rendered
    worthless unless you update it to the latest spec or export it outside of
    the EU/Schengen area. Even if the Home Office applies for EU equivalency
    for pre-95 deacs (unlikely), the amendments to UK law that they have written
    mean you've got to deactivate it again in order to sell it. And then,
    theoretically they could move the goalposts again arbitrarily at some point
    in the future and render the gun worthless again. (And it's too late to
    rush out to sell off your older deacs now, the EU regulations from last year
    are already in force).


    Just be aware of who is screwing you over here, the EU has provided a
    convoluted way to transfer your older spec deacs, the Home Office however
    has prevented that. The Policing and Crime Bill is very close to becoming
    law so it's too late to write to MPs I'm afraid. It might be possible to
    change it later on (e.g. when the Directive is transposed into domestic
    law). Look on the bright side - at least they've let you keep the things".


    The UK legislation can be found here:

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/128/enacted

    Which could make for some interesting court cases: for the majority of pre-2016 spec deacts, declaring them to be 'defectively deactivated' would be an error of physical fact.

  9. #128

    Default Re: European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

    Why are things so complcated!!!

    and then they'll expect the Police to understand and enforce it.

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