important European BAN for assault weapons proposed - EVEN IF PERMANENTLY DEACTIVATED

[private mw]

Signed

[fire ball red]

SIGNED.:nut:

[galooph]

You can submit feedback on the proposed legislation directly to the European Commission - https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/?fuseaction=feedback&docId=3085376&language=en]EU

 

Here're the instructions that BASC have sent round:

 

In the boxes for completing personal details, in the first box “Representing” choose ‘citizen’ if writing as an individual, ‘company’ if representing a trade interest and ‘Non-governmental organisation’ if responding for a club or association.

In the main feedback box we suggest you ‘cut and paste’ the following text:

<snipped>

Once the text is inserted, the next box allows you to attach a document. There is no requirement to do so.

The next box asks you to choose whether or not your feedback will be published anonymously or with your name.

Once you’ve copied the numbers in the ‘captcha’ field, remember to tick the box confirming that you’ve read and agree with the personal data treatment provisions which confirm that the EU will respect user privacy.

Finally, click on ‘Send your feedback’.

[stronghold]

SIGNED Very Bads news for all us collectors and reenactors if this is implemented.........

[oats and barley]

been there before just got my new sig 226 had to take it to the police station with my 357 smith and wesson hand them over to the officer whom i knew and was also a shooter and could also see no sense in it. do not take anything for granted:(

[ferretfixer]

I spoke on the phone personally with the London Proofmaster yesterday afternoon. (Friday) & he said a meeting had been held, with 'interested' parties & stake holders Etc. Basicly, this was so objections & input could be fed into the Government Reps concerned. They are now aware of just some of the unworkable, unfair & penalising potential proposals. Which, even if implemented, will have no effect on Criminals & terrorists. Only Law Abiding collectors, historians, reenactors, dealers,Shooters & enthusiasts will be hurt & affected. The Proposals will introduce problems on such a momentous scale across the board. That these Ill thought out 'suggestions' will cause havoc & unemployment. In such momentous areas. The affected countries will NOT be able to cope with it all!!!!

 

NO EFFECT WHAT SO EVER, will be executed against Terrorist activities or supply of weapons. From former Eastern Bloc sources & Countries! The Tragedy enacted in France, was NOT implemineted by ANY weapons from EU Member countries as we know them! Their deactivation standards prevented that.

The Weapons used in the Killings emanated from Czechlaslovakia. There were MINOR modified Blank Firing Weapons.

LIVE Guns modified to fire blanks. These class of Firearms have long been prohibited in the UK & member states. ONLY available as Legally & correctly Deactivated HARMLESS Specimins!

 

Why should WE be penalised for something that did NOT originate from the UK. & needs to be addressed against the guilty country who supplied the Weapons concerned!!!

Edited December 12, 2015 by ferretfixer

[Richard Farrant]

NO EFFECT WHAT SO EVER, will be executed against Terrorist activities or supply of weapons. From former Eastern Bloc sources & Countries! The Tragedy enacted in France, was NOT implemineted by ANY weapons from EU Member countries as we know them! Their deactivation standards prevented that.

 

The Weapons used in the Killings emanated from Czechlaslovakia.

 

Note that the Czech Republic is an EU member

[ferretfixer]

Note that the Czech Republic is an EU member

 

quite correct Richard. However, each individual member state also has it's own standards in other catagories.

For example, just over the water. Live handguns can STILL be owned & shot legally on a Certificate.

this is prohibited in the UK, even though WE are an EU member state!!!!!! :mad:

 

Teresa May, the Home Secretary has openly stated on a previous occasion. That she would like to see other EU Member States adopt the same standards of deactivation, as we have here in the UK.

Because WE have the tightest regulations in this area, in the EU!!!!!:cry:

 

So it is REALLY up to ALL EU member states to get Czech Republic to change IT's standards to come in line with others.

NOT for US to tighten up even further in the UK. On a subject that is NOT a problem here!!!!:mad:

 

It was the 'Expansion Guns' that emanated from Czech Republic that were responsible for the Incidents in France.

NOT Legally DEACTIVATED Weapons!......

[john fox]

I have signed the petition but it is pointless. This is the responses MEPs: (my bolding)

 

Catherine Bearder Liberal Democrat MEP "..... the Commission has prepared a Regulation that sets out common, strict, harmonised criteria on how Member States must deactivate weapons so they are rendered unfit to use. This is complemented by the ban on the possession of Category A firearms – even when they are deactivated. The Implementing Regulation is based on the criteria for deactivation developed by the Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms (the CIP).

 

The Commission has been negotiating this Implementing Regulation with Member States since April 2015 in the context of the comitology procedure, with discussions intensifying in the last few weeks. The draft text sent to Member States on Friday 13 November was adopted in committee on 18 November, following which the College adopted the implementing act on the same day.

In summary, the proposed revision of the Firearms Directive will debated by European Parliament and Council for adoption, the Commission are hoping its plans will be approved and come into effect by July 2016. The Commission have not mentioned compensation, so I am unable to give you an answer on that."

 

In contrast I was rather amused therefore by the "honesty" of the UKIP response: "..... I therefore believe that we in UKIP will be opposing the new EU Firearms proposal. Sadly, however, I fear it will be approved anyway. There is nothing most MEPs like more than a nice piece of gesture politics in response to public concern – whether or not their gesture has any practical effect."

Edited December 16, 2015 by john fox

[arcot1751]

I have signed the petition but it is pointless. This is the responses MEPs: (my bolding)

 

Catherine Bearder Liberal Democrat MEP "..... the Commission has prepared a Regulation that sets out common, strict, harmonised criteria on how Member States must deactivate weapons so they are rendered unfit to use. This is complemented by the ban on the possession of Category A firearms – even when they are deactivated. The Implementing Regulation is based on the criteria for deactivation developed by the Permanent International Commission for the Proof of Small Arms (the CIP).

 

The Commission has been negotiating this Implementing Regulation with Member States since April 2015 in the context of the comitology procedure, with discussions intensifying in the last few weeks. The draft text sent to Member States on Friday 13 November was adopted in committee on 18 November, following which the College adopted the implementing act on the same day.

In summary, the proposed revision of the Firearms Directive will debated by European Parliament and Council for adoption, the Commission are hoping its plans will be approved and come into effect by July 2016. The Commission have not mentioned compensation, so I am unable to give you an answer on that."

 

In contrast I was rather amused therefore by the "honesty" of the UKIP response: "..... I therefore believe that we in UKIP will be opposing the new EU Firearms proposal. Sadly, however, I fear it will be approved anyway. There is nothing most MEPs like more than a nice piece of gesture politics in response to public concern – whether or not their gesture has any practical effect."

 

I have been amazed at the apathy displayed by groups and individuals over this. This will have a serious affect on vehicle values, shows, re-enacting, businesses etc. Yet people who no doubt still believe in the tooth fairy continue to ignore what is happening before their own eyes. Why aren't the big groups lobbying over this, why is the MVT not contacting members, what about the show organisers etc ? Vehicle owners prepare to see a huge drop in values and shows closing because people will NOT come to view rows of green vehicles with no kit to look at or battles played out with wooden guns in the arena.

[andym]

Nothing yet from my MEP, but my MP (Penny Mordaunt) says "I have written to the Minister of State for Policing, Crime and Criminal Justice, Mike Penning MP, on your behalf to ask for a response to the points raised and I will be in touch again when I have received a response".

 

Andy

[arcot1751]

The latest thinking is that old spec stuff is ok in current owners hands but if or when it is sold it will be the owners duty to ensure it is deactivated to CURRENT spec BEFORE sale ie. welded solid, at the owners expense ! So you invest say £1500 in an old spec SLR then you fall on hard times and are forced to sell. You pay £80 to get it up to current spec and ruined so you can then sell it if you are lucky for £500 ! Easiest way to lose £1000 ever. My guess is they will ask all current owners to register their deacs on pain of say 5 years imprisonment if they are found with an unregistered deactivated weapon in their possession, much the same as current firearms laws. That way they will require you to notify change of ownership AND to comply with current spec law. This is all supposed to happen by March 2016 which is I would say impossible but it will happen eventually because the EU has failed to police other countries deacs so everyone suffers even the UK whose deactivation standards are among the best in the world. None of us live forever one day someone will need to sell these items and the "investment" factor is wiped out completely. Utter bloody madness. :mad:

[ColinR]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned but in Northern Ireland you couldn't even get fireworks let alone deacs etc and still plenty of guns got in the country as we all know. So how does the EU think they are going to Police this and enforce it? I just hope this country doesn't do its usual and roll over whilst other countries pay lip service to it.

[ferretfixer]

This 'Battle' is not over by a long Shot yet! (Excuse the Phrase, no pun intended) The EU in it's written constitution, has to make an Impact assessment before ANY of these PROPSALS are eneacted.

I can definitely see other EU member states having to tighten up & modify their respective legislation on Deacts Etc.

 

I have read & re-read these so-called-Proposals. They are NOT clear in most of their Defintions. & confusing & unworkable in most cases. If taken word by word, the 'Processes' they speak of. Cannot be executed.

it is NOT clear to Me, if ALL actions in each Category for instance. State if the LMG class for example, have to have welded actions. Certainly, it states 'Belt feed mechanisiems will be welded solid'. Well, that's just ONE sweeping statement! :mad:

I would like to see anyone, no matter how skilled. Weld a steel feedmech, to an alliumnium top cover. Like the Mag58/GPMG has for example!! Cannot be done, the top cover in the first instance would melt, & the two totally dissimilar Metals. would NOT fuse together!

 

Also, in a lot of Weapons, when welded with a magazine also welded in. How would you examine the work carried out PROPERLY?......:mad:

 

Having perused a lot of the PROPOSSED Nonsense. Most of it is TRYING to imitate the UKs Deact Proceedures.

For example, it talks of welded solid to Current specs, of the SMG & Machine Pistol & Assault rifle Classes of weapon.

We already live with & endure that here currently. BUT, there is NO Justification for Handguns & LMG classes Of Deact to be Tightened up more than they already are in the UK standards!!!!!

Also the 'Proposed' Deact Cert that will be issued to each of the Potentially 'New' Deact. Is almost a carbon copy of the one the UK issues!.....

Again, it could be argued, that to come to a compromise. & show that the 'Wonderful' EU Member states have done 'Something' towards executing their kneejerk, over the top reaction to the Tragedy in France.

Then OK, Tighten up THEIR Deact standards to a common level. Such as is currently enacted in the UK now.

After all, it was AK's of the Assault Weapon Class that did the damage. NOT any other class or type!!!!!!!

 

So then the 'Wonderful' EU Government could then pat itself on the back. Secure in the knowledge that yet again. The Law Abiding Shooter, Collector. Re-enactor & other enthusiasts. Have been needlessly penalised AGAIN!

& the Law Ignoring Criminal & Terrorists will simply carry on doing 'what they do'. With no effect!!!!:mad:

 

yes indeed, my faith in Ignorant, Stupid, Self Serving & Lying MP's. Has been set in concrete, as to my mistrust & now concrete thoughts. as to their Incompetance, Ineptitude, & total Failure To PROPERLY look into the real problems involved.

 

To sum it all up: MPs are the problem, NOT The Law Abiding Populace! Because MPs have actually CAUSED the Problem.

If they weren't so Bloody busy giving ZILLIONS of the Tax Payers Money away. The Funding WOULD be available, To provide Effective Border Protection Personel. AND Customs for Effective vehicle searches, More People in Official Capacities to enforce our present Laws. More Military on the ground, to enact hunting down & eliminating the terrorist threat. And preventing them hiding/stock piling & acquiring weaponry!

(And as a Bonus, Provide the NHS the CORRECT funding it NEEDS to remain, the envy of the civilised world!)

Penalising the Law Abiding & Harmless, will NOT stop the Terrorist & Criminals = PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

Edited December 17, 2015 by ferretfixer

[john fox]

I have read & re-read these so-called-Proposals. They are NOT clear in most of their Defintions. & confusing & unworkable in most cases. If taken word by word, the 'Processes' they speak of. Cannot be executed.

Mike you have mis-read it then? As far as I understand it an LMG and a GPMG is a Cat A weapon so will be totally illegal to possess, even if deactivated. I don't have a full description of Cat A but the referncnes I have seen used are them being a weapon of military origin, so pretty obviously anything in current use would count and that will also sweep up "historic" firearms as well. Note the word is possess not own. Anyone (other than a museum or a few other approved bodies) in possession of one will be committing an offence, so whether its pre or post 95 deac as arcot1751 thinks is irrelevant as he too has mis-read, it must be surrendered to the police without compensation.

 

how long before "they" regard deactivated main armament on vehicles under the same category as well? Lose the deac or lose the vehicle????

Edited December 17, 2015 by john fox

[Bob Grundy]

I 100% agree with your views Mr Ferretfixer, may the Lord further your work.....

[andym]

The latest thinking is that old spec stuff is ok in current owners hands but if or when it is sold it will be the owners duty to ensure it is deactivated to CURRENT spec BEFORE sale ie. welded solid, at the owners expense !

 

Unless it is a Cat A (such as SLR, SMG, GPMG) in which case you will have to surrender it as they will become illegal to possess.

 

Andy

[andym]

The response from my MEP (Nigel Farage):

 

"Thank you for your email to Mr Farage, apologies for the delay in responding to you, we have had a considerable number of emails on this subject.

 

At Mr Farage's request I have discussed this issue in detail with colleagues, and listened in person to the views of Registered Firearms Dealers. The EU Commission's draft law has not yet been discussed in the relevant European Parliamentary Committee, so we are not in a position to comment on the detail. However three points are very clear.

 

First, the weapons used in the Paris atrocity, and more generally the weapons used in most terrorist attacks, are illegally-held weapons. Changing the law on legal gun ownership is therefore unlikely to have any significant impact on the availability of illegal weapons to terrorists. Indeed the EU is clearly the problem, not the solution.

 

There is extensive evidence that for example Croatia, which recently joined the EU, is a hotbed of smuggling – not only of arms, but also of drugs, people and human organs. It has also been said (and it is no exaggeration) that free movement of goods and people in the EU (and especially the Schengen area) has led to free movement of Kalashnikovs.

 

Secondly, so far as we understand it the UK already has some of the tightest regulations on firearms in the world. We do not believe that further legislation at the EU level will make any additional contribution to public safety. In any case we in UKIP are opposed in principle to any extension of competences at the EU level.

 

Thirdly, I understand that the proposed means of deactivating weapons will prevent inspection of the moving parts, actually making it more difficult to identify a weapon with a false certificate of deactivation.

 

I can therefore confirm that UKIP will be opposing the new EU Firearms proposal. Sadly, however, we fear it will be approved anyway. There is nothing MEPs like more than a nice piece of gesture politics in response to public concern – whether or not their gesture has any practical effect."

 

(Note the last sentence as already stated by another MEP!)

 

Andy

[ajmac]

Has anyone had comment from any of the large deact dealers? They must be seriously worried about the viability of there businesses.

[oats and barley]

one firm is offering a sig and uzi cheap if you buy the two

[oats and barley]

ANOMALY is that the word i am looking for i believe hand guns are still legal on the isle of man and in northern ireland ?

[Chris Hall]

The implications of this are unreal. This will even effect the military! HM forces have a large number of deactivated firearms that are not required to be kept in the Armoury. Our SAT ranges use deactivated SA80s, our messes contain many Deac tropheys. We have gate guardians with machine cannons. The military can't be exempt as they are still deactivated.

[arcot1751]

I agree, we need out of the EU, they messed it up in the first place and as usual, everyone except the UK will ignore this.

 

Anyone know if they can ban anything without offering compensation? If the British Government had to offer compensation for the handgun ban, why don't the EU?

 

The compensation offered to the handgun owners was minimal anyway Chris, how does £80 for two £1000 pistols sound ? I cannot be the only one who thinks this is unjust, totally misses the issue of ILEGALLY held, poorly deactivated and smuggled weapons and will have absolutely NO impact on either terrorism or armed robbery. Much the same as the handgun situation where the innocent were made to suffer while the handgun rate continues to climb in the UK year on year despite the governments blinkered view that by making ownership illegal all the bad guys will throw them in the canal and become choir boys !

[Charlie]

Ok, just got my December issue of Windscreen through from the MVT, not a mention. Been a member of BASC for as long as I can remember and not heard a word about it from them! not even an email. Picked up a mates shooting times yesterday and guess what, not a mention!!!!!! Whats going on!!!!!!

[arcot1751]

Ok, just got my December issue of Windscreen through from the MVT, not a mention. Been a member of BASC for as long as I can remember and not heard a word about it from them! not even an email. Picked up a mates shooting times yesterday and guess what, not a mention!!!!!! Whats going on!!!!!!

 

To be honest it seems to be a done deal, many seem in denial and others couldn't give a rats ar5e UNTIL it happens when it's too late. It's like moaning about who won the election when you didn't vote. The MVT seem to have lost the plot compared to the old days and other big groups are also noticeable by their silence. We have been sold out basically.