Old Bill Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 That block needs a good soaking in 6:1 mollasses for 3 weeks - gets in all the nooks and crannies. That's an interesting one. I have also had a recommendation for the process from a pal in Australia but have not yet tried it. What is the chemistry that is going on? I have heard tell that it smells like gangrene but is amazingly effective at shifting rust! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Degsy Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The active agent is Acetic acid, farmers have known about it for generations. Lots of info if you Google 'Molasses & rust' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I have bought a set of valve seat cutters, tried it on one seat and it looks like they only need a bit of lapping afterwards. Luckily there was a cutter in the box with the right angle (45°) and that just passed through the threaded hole! I guess you can find one of these nearby, if not and I have the right size I'll gladly borrow it. Also acquired a Black&Decker valve refacer, I hope I can reuse all the valves but might have to fabricate a couple new ones. Here is a short video of it grinding a valve from an injection pump: Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) Hi Steve, Both garages where I worked had a Black and Decker Vibro-Centric valve seat grinding set. An expensive tool normally only found in garages or engine rebuild workshops. It comprised of an electric drill with a ball hex drive which fitted into an arbour onto which could be screwed an angled grindstone. A shaft was then fitted into the guide and the arbour complete with stone would be mounted on this shaft and then be driven around by the drill. The set included an assortment of different sized/angled stones and an assortment of shafts that fitted the different sized valve guides. The set also came with a stone dresser and extension/flexible ball hex drives. There is a video on youtube. Link here Also if your quick there is one on ebay with lots of photos; I tried to download the photos but once enlarged they aren’t very clear. Link here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-and-Decker-Vibro-Centric-Valve-Seat-Grinder-Set-/170911991703?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item27cb260797 Best regards. John Edited October 24, 2012 by Barney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Thanks Cel. That makes it a lot clearer. I have seen cutters like that around but never knew what they were! Are they just turned with the tommy bar rather than a power tool? I think a trip to the second hand tool shop is called for. Cheers! Steve :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hi Steve, Both garages where I worked had a Black and Decker Vibro-Centric valve seat grinding set. Hi John. That's interesting. I could make one of those, I think. Just fit a grinding wheel to the correctly sized arbour and use the lathe, with a diamond in the toolpost, to dress the grindstone to suit. Thanks for the tip-off! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 This set is only 110 Volts, but 12,000 revs per minute sure beat the tommy bar. Molasses is good, electrolysis is better but lemon juice is really good as well for removing rust. Just peel the lemons, squash them up in the bottom of your container pith and all and submerse your rusty bit for a few days. This thread sure brings back a lot of memories from when I restored my 1916 Albion A10. I have another engine to get my teeth into now as well. Keep up the good work. Regards Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Hi Steve, Another option would be to mount the grindstone, with bushes if necessary, on the end of a long rod that is the same diameter as the valve stem. True the stone in the lathe as you suggest and then slide the rod through the valve guide and tighten the end of the rod into the chuck of an electric drill. Switch on and gently, so as not to bend the rod, pull the stone onto the seat. Good luck. John ps. Please accept my apologies if you have already thought of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 All suggestions are very gratefully received. Thanks John! Steve :cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cel Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Are they just turned with the tommy bar rather than a power tool? Yes, turning the tommy bar and applying a bit of pressure by hand does the job. If you look at the second picture in my post, the seat on the left was in the same condition as the one on the right, less than 10 turns were enough to make it as in the picture. Marcel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 The new Inlet Valve Cap retainers have now been completed and the pictures show them next to the remains of the originals which had to be drilled out of the cylinders as they were so rusted in. The Exhaust Valve Cap retainers are still to be completed but the bulk of the machining work there has already been done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynx42 Rick Cove Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 That's the first time I've spotted the 71/4" rail track. What is the story there? I have a bit to do with one locally. Regards Rick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hi Rick. Yes, we build railway engines as well! Dad was posted to work in the bank on the Isles of Scilly for a while and during that time, decided to build a steam locomotive. He bought himself a lathe and a book on how to use it and just did it! Even now, I am amazed, firstly in that he taught himself to do it in a place where there was no one to ask and secondly, in that he persuaded Mother to allow him to spend the money! You can see a photo of my locomotive on the Dennis thread, page 82, 7th June 2010. I am currently building a pair of electric locomotives and they have slowed my progress on the Thorny. My part of that project is coming to an end now so I hope to return to the lorry very soon. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 That's the first time I've spotted the 71/4" rail track. What is the story there? I have a bit to do with one locally. Regards Rick. What! You missed the joke about "being on the wrong side of the tracks". You will have to go and read the Dennis thread all over again. Anyway, Steve has been doing a bit on the lorry again and has cleaned up the three drain taps. They were filthy, seized and one was broken Steve cleaned them up with a nylon brush and then straightened the bent handle whilst hot and turned up a new one for the last tap. They are now safely tucked away ready for engine assembly. The piston rings have arrived and look fine. We need these up front in order to make the pistons to fit. We have been having some discussions about how big the gap should be in the ring to allow for differential expansion. Steve worked out that if the ring is 140° hotter than the cylinder wall then the gap should be of the order of 0.021” but his does seem a bit big. Anyway, the discussion is now closed as the gap is written on the packet!. We will make them 0.012”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8_10 Brass Cleaner Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Hi Rick. Yes, we build railway engines as well! Dad was posted to work in the bank on the Isles of Scilly for a while and during that time, decided to build a steam locomotive. He bought himself a lathe and a book on how to use it and just did it! Even now, I am amazed, firstly in that he taught himself to do it in a place where there was no one to ask and secondly, in that he persuaded Mother to allow him to spend the money! You can see a photo of my locomotive on the Dennis thread, page 82, 7th June 2010. I am currently building a pair of electric locomotives and they have slowed my progress on the Thorny. My part of that project is coming to an end now so I hope to return to the lorry very soon. Steve Steve, I'll send my mate Mike to see you, he has a Reliant engined petrol/electric 7 1/4 deltic. Mainly using fork truck electrics. Its ace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super6 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 You're not going for the racing engine clearances then Are these N O S or re-manufactured seeing as they appear to be in old packaging and metric marked poly bags? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I don't think truck racing is really our thing although it is on record that a Mack running down hill, deliberately out of gear, could exceed 70mph. This is with wooden wheels and solid tyres. All sounds a bit hairy to me! The rings are what I could get off the shelf. The plain ones are 110mm dia (4.331") but our liners will be 4 5/16" bore (4.313"). This diameter difference will not cause a problem other than that I will have to remove a little more from the ends when setting the gaps. The scraper rings in the packets are 4 5/16" so they should need little adjustment. I must get my drawing board out now and draw up the new pistons ready to start pattern making again. The grooves will be cut to suit the rings we now have. Steve :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 The engine parts are coming together – the new Valve Springs have now arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nz2 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 What are the new valve springs from? I assume you located these by their length and diameter. I note the new springs have eight coils and the originals have ten coils. Will a difference in tension matter? I the other context one could ask if this was the start of a major engine rebuild to increase power. Stronger valve springs in high performance engines!! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bill Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 The springs are standard off-the-shelf from the Lee Spring Co at £7.72 each. As there are fewer coils the spring rate will be greater. However, they are 1/32" bigger in the bore so that will soften them. The wire size and free lengths are identical so I don't think we will notice the difference! Interestingly, they are wound the other way. Is there a convention for spring coil direction? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted170 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The EU rules - I am sure they would not miss such an important issue :-D Super thread, following it with great interest! :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minesweeper Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 The first of the four Exhaust Valve Cap Retainers has been machined back to leave the locking tabs – the other three still to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 I had a few days down with the trucks and started to clean up the cam followers: Tony has now completed the Exhaust Valve Cap Retainers and the pictures show the new ones alongside the somewhat corroded ones that were removed from the engine. One of the ones removed is non-standard and presumably was inserted sometime in the past when an original was either lost or damaged beyond repair. This now completes all the Valve Cap Retainers – Inlet and Exhaust - and he will no doubt be pleased to move on to something different! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 19, 2012 Author Share Posted November 19, 2012 As the Valve Seats are in such a poor and very corroded state, Tony visited our old friend and mentor, Dave H to seek his advice about re-cutting them. The new Valve Guides had already been machined and Tony took these with him. Dave was not happy with the method of Tony’s manufacture of the Valve Guides and suggested that the 3/8” reamed bore and the outer diameter were unlikely to be concentric. Subsequently checking this on a mandrel did show that they were about 5 “thou”s out. Tony’s initial re-action was to say that they would be scrapped and that he would make fresh ones. However, Dave suggested that one of the Valve Guides should be fixed in a Block and a trial light cut of the valve seat be taken to see how it looked and to see if it was going to be passable. If it did look OK, then they could be re-cut properly and fully. Dave has Valve Cutters and would help with these. So Tony returned home and arranged to insert one of the Valve Guides into a Block. The Guides are necessarily a tight fit in the Blocks and a Draw Bar was made up so that they could be pulled into the Block, in a controlled manner. The first two pictures show the Draw Bar made with the third and fourth ones showing the operation. This mainly went according to plan although the Valve Guide did tighten up towards the end of its travel and had to be gently encouraged as well with a Hammer. These three pictures show the Guide in its final position and also shows again, the very poor state of the Valve Seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great War truck Posted November 21, 2012 Author Share Posted November 21, 2012 Our friend Dave H is calling on Saturday with his Valve Seat Cutting Gear to have a look at one of the Valve Faces to see if it can be satisfactorily re-cut using the Valve Guides previously made and mentioned above. With some time to spare today, we picked up the Cam Followers again which have now been mainly cleaned but have revealed that the Rollers rattle on their shafts through wear – so the shafts will have to be replaced. A mushroom head on the old shafts were filed off – the shafts ares 3/8” in diameter and they were partially drilled through 7/32 to form a seat for a bit of 3/16” silver steel which would be used to squeeze the old shafts out using the vice. The final picture shows the wear on one shaft very clearly and seven of the eight are like this. The shafts seem to be made of just mild steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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