antarmike Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Hey you might well be right - each time I look at it I see a different view, and it's too long to wade through again. One of those subjective things. Perhaps I've lost my sense of humour/perspective. One example of a carrying vehicle which might fit the criteria is a conversion of a vintage Albion(?) coach chassis which was cleverly adapted with a turntable body to transport a traction engine - here the carrying vehicle is designed to convey a specific load only, so if the load complies with MPV then the transporter might too? Anyway, it's all a bit academic. Someone chuck me a few spuds on your way to the bar :yay: I don't believe so, during the Show (exhibition) the stationary MPV has to have as is main use an educational/ instructional role. If it is empty, because it has unloaded a steamer, it is not fulfilling that role. The legislation appears to be aimed at something like a play bus, or a mobile classroom, in a converted bus or coach, that takes equipment to a site where it is be used, and people board the bus to use the equipment, that remains on board.....Hence its role when staionary remains recreational or educational/instructional.... Edited March 4, 2009 by antarmike I just felt like adding something else...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The legislation appears to be aimed at something like a play bus, or a mobile classroom, in a converted bus or coach, that takes equipment to a site where it is be used, and people board the bus to use the equipment, that remains on board.....Hence its role when staionary remains recreational or educational/instructional.... I think Mobile (Rural) Libraries, Police Infomation (Crime Prevention) Wagons & the likes are covered by this too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I would agree with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) Think this is a good candidate too (Bit small but you get the idea)... Unless you start selling Chips after the demo.. Edited March 4, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Is that our Heliops on a school demonstration :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Is that our Heliops on a school demonstration :rofl: Can't be... can't see any women:sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 No it's Heliops' excuse why he never does the cooking! :-D Another problem with an MVt might be insurance. Bear in mind public autority vehicles and EMS vehicles are usually bonded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Also to be an MPV wouldn't the it have to be a rigid vehicle?? if it had a deatachable trailer, that would not be a permanant part of the vehicle:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Also to be an MPV wouldn't the it have to be a rigid vehicle?? if it had a deatachable trailer, that would not be a permanant part of the vehicle:confused: Wouldn't be too hard to weld the release handle on the king pin and make it reasonably permanent! It's as good as permanent as the tank or half track welded to a load bed. When I down rated my Bedford MJ to 7.5 tonnes, the bump stop spacers were supposed to be permanently fixed. The conversion kit came with nuts and bolts to attach them and this was VOSA approved. Not the same case I know, but shows a variation on the definition of permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Think this is a good candidate too (Bit small but you get the idea)... Unless you start selling Chips after the demo.. It appears to me to be non HGV, so not really a good candidate. MPV rules are to allow driving of vehicles that would normally require an HGV licence, the the holder od a B (car) licence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Also to be an MPV wouldn't the it have to be a rigid vehicle?? if it had a deatachable trailer, that would not be a permanant part of the vehicle:confused: I can't read that into the rules Lee. I can't see why one couldn't be articulated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) It appears to me to be non HGV, so not really a good candidate. MPV rules are to allow driving of vehicles that would normally require an HGV licence, the the holder od a B (car) licence. I know, that's why I said "Bit small but you get the idea" it was just an example of a type of exhibit that may make a vehicle an MPV, couldn't find a photo of a bigger one.. Edited March 4, 2009 by Marmite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 I think we all might have it wrong here, taken from INF52: ® mobile project vehicles – having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnes and constructed or adapted to carry not more than 8 persons in addition to the driver and carries principally goods or burden consisting of; (i) play or educational equipment and articles required in connection with the use of such equipment, or (ii) articles required for the purposes of display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose of which is used as a recreational, educational or instructional facility when stationary. In our case its item “(ii) articles required for the purposes of display……..” that is applicable. Now is it the MPV or the “goods or burden consisting of articles required for the purpose of display…..” that is used stationary? Now the way I read it it’s the “articles required for the purpose of display” in our case the MV you are taking to the show and lets face it its primary purpose is to remain stationary with perhaps the odd trip into the arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying principally goods of burden consisting of a) play or education equipment, or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. As I was tought English grammer, and sentance construction, the MPV is the subject of the condition that is primary use when stationary is Educational etc. If the display equipment was the subject of that clause, the "and" would not be there. For it to be the exhibition articles that are staionary, the clause would read, b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, the primary purpose of which, when stationary, is recreational, educational or instructional. or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, whose primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. It does not however say that. if it said Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying principally goods of burden, namely bananas, and the primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. Clearly the sentence construction is that the vehicle is refered to as being stationary, not the bananas. Substitute the "either or" clauses a) and b) for the bananas, and the vehicle will remain the subject of being stationary. Well that's what my Grammar school education taught me, but English wasn't my favourite subject, but I believe the MPV is being referred to as having to have an educational purpose, when stationary. I am sure others will see it differently.... Edited March 5, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) Light blue touch paper and retire immediately.... Here we go again...... Was it the giant oozlum bird that went round in ever deceasing circles until it disappeared up its own orifice? Edited March 5, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Just to throw another spanner in the works - I don't think relying on the grammatical construction of a regulation is sufficient to rule either way - the standard of grammar coming out of Gov't/State agencies these days is awful. It would be interesting to see how much a VOSA official would squirm to get out of giving a definitive answer before an audience on this point!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 We can speculate and deconstruct the grammar on here as much as we want. We can even get it writing from someone at VOSA. Until it comes before a court and the definition is clarified or modified we're all just guessing, what may and may not be classified as a MPV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Is that not where it gets interesting though??? The Courts are not experts on vehicle construction and use law so surely they would refer the question to the agency that has been tasked with responsibility for such laws?? Now - who was that - oh yes - VOSA!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying principally goods of burden consisting of a) play or education equipment, or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. As I was tought English grammer, and sentance construction, the MPV is the subject of the condition that is primary use when stationary is Educational etc. If the display equipment was the subject of that clause, the "and" would not be there. For it to be the exhibition articles that are staionary, the clause would read, b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, the primary purpose of which, when stationary, is recreational, educational or instructional. or b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, whose primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. It does not however say that. if it said Vehicle having a maximum authorised mass exceeding 3.5 tonnnes, constructed or adapted not to carry more than 8 people, in addition to the driver, carrying principally goods of burden, namely bananas, and the primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. Clearly the sentence construction is that the vehicle is refered to as being stationary, not the bananas. Substitute the "either or" clauses a) and b) for the bananas, and the vehicle will remain the subject of being stationary. Well that's what my Grammar school education taught me, but English wasn't my favourite subject, but I believe the MPV is being referred to as having to have an educational purpose, when stationary. I am sure others will see it differently.... I’ll bow to your better education, but where does it state that the goods or burden have to remain on the vehicle, i.e. permanently fixed. Still reads either way to me, but there again I never went to Grammer School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 I am going to seriously wet my pants with laughter when a new member signs on with the name VOSAMAN :sweat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtistsRifles Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 If they do - and are with VOSA then they will need sectioning for being suicidal!!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john fox Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 VOSAMAN :nono: VOSAPERSON please - this is a non discriminatory forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony B Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 NO! NO! NO! DEFINITLEY NOT :argh: You should all know what happens when anyone fron VOSA gets near a computer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antarmike Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) I seems to me that, equipment carried in an MPV, can only be used when it is stationary. An MPV may have up to 8 seats, but they are for the helpers on a playbus, of the staff of an exhibition. I cannot think anyone would really think that an MPV picks up 8 people, who sit in the vehicle studying as it is being driven to a destination to set up an instructional / educational exhibition. The people using the equipment do not do so on the move, they do it when the vehicle is parked up. The equipment therefore has no use when mobile, since it is only ever used stationary, therefore adding a clause saying that the use must be educational / instructional when stationary, is totally superflous. Instead of the definition saying , b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, and the primary purpose when stationary is recreational, educational or instructional. It need only say b) articles required for the purposes of a display or of an exhibition, the primary purpose being recreational, educational or instructional. but it doesn't. The goods in the MPV have no purpose when the MPV is moving, and only have a purpose when it it is parked up. The MPV however does have two different purposes. (depending on whether it is on the move or stationary) A) it transports equipment that is to be used at a particular location, to that location, and back. b) when stationary at the exhibition site, it houses the equipment and provides an area where the equipment can be used. You don't have to study English grammer to know that the clause relating to "the primary use when stationary" relates to the MPV. It is clearly logical that this is the only interpretaion that makes any sense. Edited March 5, 2009 by antarmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsk460 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 It always ammuses me to have a snoop as to how people have taxed there gear up when I'm mooching around shows. I saw an explorer at W&P last year taxed as 'Recovery' at £165 per year... I dont think there's any taxation class as such for MPV so would it be Private HGV??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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