Trains again

[Minesweeper]

The West Countries and Battle of Britains are identical - the Merchant Navies are bigger!

[Grasshopper]

You mean you can tell the Southern Bulleid Battle of Britain, West Country and Merchant Navy types apart from a distance:confused:

 

That would be a definite no then! I knew that the 2 smaller ones were the same. I can tell the difference between a 170 and a 171 Turbostar at a distance though, and wether it is a phase 1/2/3 build.... but then thats my job!

[Bystander]

I have trouble (being a Southern man) telling the GWR types apart. QUOTE]

 

You mean you can tell the Southern Bulleid Battle of Britain, West Country and Merchant Navy types apart from a distance:confused:

 

It is quite easy to recognise a Merchant Navy from a Bullied Light Pacific at any distance - a Merchant Navy is noticably more massive and 'square shouldered'. The BoB and WC Classes are one and the same, the distiction being purely for publicity purposes, the allocation of blocks of BoB and WC names was fairly promiscuous throughout the run of the build. So I think that your remark is unfair!

 

It is even easier to tell a rebuild from an unrebuilt!

 

Pre-rebuilding it was also quite easy to tell the various blocks of MN class apart from a good distance - the first 4 had 'pinched in' front ends, as did to a lesser extent the the next six, while the final ten had a quite different tender (before they started to get mixed up).

 

Whereas as a friend of mine says the GW only ever built two classes of locos: tender engines and tank engines - although I think that he is being a little unfair, after all they built pannier tanks and prairies!

[CommanderChuff]

Dont forget that the MN's had different cab fronts, the later types being V fronted

[chevpol]

you mean that here were locos built at places other than Swindon? How strange!!!!

 

Mark

[berna2vm]

Trains are 'vehicles' and considering the place they played, and still play in Military Logistics, I say there very relevant.

I am in complete agreement,Tony. The role that the railways played in the wars is incalcuble.

[alan turner (RIP)]

Woolwich Arsenal had over 120 miles of mixed gauge railways standard and 18" from the mid 1800's. 2 survive at Waltham Abbey and I believe one runs the steam line on the Isle of Wight.

 

The Arsenal also made some Steam trains post WW1 then provided a kit of parts to allow Ashford, Down near Richard Farrant's place, to produce quite a lot more

 

more images

[Grasshopper]

Invincible is preserved on the Isle of Wight steam Railway and is currently in it's original lined Woolwich Arsenal maroon livery. I used to get cab rides in it when i was a nipper!

Following a 10-yearly boiler overhaul 'Invincible' undergoes a steam test on 12th December 2001

 

'Invincible' was supplied to the Woolwich Arsenal in 1915 where she worked with seventeen other engines of the same design, shunting the extensive railway system there. 'Invincible' remained at Woolwich until 1955 when, following a period in store she was overhauled, given a new boiler and transferred to the Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough. Her task was to haul coal and stores wagons from the British Railways exchange sidings to the Establishment, she became a familiar sight as much of the route followed the streets through the town. Following the closure of the Establishments railway system in 1968 'Invincible' was purchased by Tom Jeffris of Southampton who placed her on loan to the Wight Locomotive Society in 1971. Westinghouse air brake equipment was fitted in the winter of 1972/73 allowing her to haul passenger trains and, with W24 'Calbourne' out of service for the next four years, 'Invincible' was the Railways only source of steam motive power. Following the death of Mr Jeffris ownership of 'Invincible' passed to the Wight Locomotive Society in 1979.

 

Although a powerful engine, her design as a shunting engine makes it hard for her to maintain time during busy periods and 'Invincible' can be found operating mainly during the early and late season when the less intense timetable is more suited to her capabilities. Following completion of her 10-year boiler overhaul 'Invincible' was returned to steam on 12th December 2001 and can now be seen in the maroon livery of the Woolwich Arsenal Railway.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Grasshopper

[N.O.S.]

That heavy fibre tow rope on the gun carriage is.........heavy!!!

[Tony B]

That Carriage is more probably the test slege. There was one mounting a 240 mm barrel outside Rotunda for years. Since the collection finally moved to Forepower haven't ben up there in years so can't say if it is still there. May get up today so will have a look.

[radiomike7]

Was the carriage part of this?

 

[alan turner (RIP)]

no Mike its a different uniot numbered 20 whereas the one withWynns was no12 there is 16mm film of 20 in the film stock at RAWHS complete with barrel as shown as going to dover, the sled for the one outside the rotunda is a different style, and that has gone down to Larkhill, MOD wouldn't find the monies to send it down to Firepower but found a training excercise to get it to Wiltshire

[AndyFowler]

Thanks Alan ! I wondered where the beast had gone ! Would have thought the Firepower would have had first refusal on such a huge gun ! :???

[Great War truck]

You will of course all know what this is then:

 

[alan turner (RIP)]

looks likea railgun carriage.

 

If Firepower could have raised the funds then the Rotunda gun Would have gone down there, its only 195tons after all, on the LILO entrance/exit island at the bottom of burrage road .Regt couldnt help nor MOD or RE/REME so it stayed at the rotunda until last year when after notice was given that the rotunda is to close and be vacated by this Dec. somehow it was miraculously able to be transported 150 miles to wiltshire by MOD staff rather than 1.5 miles to Woolwich Arsenal. There are/were other large pieces at the rotunda including a disappearing mount that will go to RM Museum Eastney, beautiful cast beams on it but cupola made of boiler plate and suffering from severe rust bug and can just be seen behind the French 75mm Special.

[radiomike7]

You will of course all know what this is then:

 

 

 

Might it be one of the carriages from Dora?

[Richard Farrant]

There are/were other large pieces at the rotunda including a disappearing mount that will go to RM Museum Eastney, beautiful cast beams on it but cupola made of boiler plate and suffering from severe rust bug and can just be seen behind the French 75mm Special.

 

 

Alan,

 

The Disappearing Gun........I have a feeling it might have been brought back from Singapore. I once visited the North Head Artillery museum in Sydney, it is situated on the site of an old fort and I believe they also had disappearing guns installed.

[Richard Farrant]

The Arsenal also made some Steam trains post WW1 then provided a kit of parts to allow Ashford, Down near Richard Farrant's place, to produce quite a lot more

 

That would have been the old Southern Railway works then. My father worked on engines there during the War.

[Grasshopper]

Other ex-Army locomotives on the Isle of Wight steam railway are-

 

 

HUNSLET AUSTERITY 0-6-0ST No. WD198

 

 

 

'ROYAL ENGINEER'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Built for the Ministry of Defence in 1953, WD198 did not enter service until 1956 at the General Stores Sub-Depot at Steventon, moving to Central Ordnance Depot, Bicester in 1958 and finally to HQ Engineer Resources at Long Marston in 1961. Following a long period in store she was restored to working order and given the name 'Royal Engineer' in 1971. A further overhaul followed in 1987/88 and, when withdrawn from service in 1991, she was the last operational steam locomotive owned by the Army. 'Royal Engineer' was part of a collection of railway items acquired by the Royal Corps of Transport Museum Trust for eventual display at a new museum under development at Chatham. As an interim measure 'Royal Engineer' was placed on loan to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and, following the fitting of Westinghouse air brake equipment, was put to work on passenger services. In 2001 direct responsibility for the care of the locomotive passed to the National Army Museum who confirmed the loan agreement. WD198 can be seen at Havenstreet alongside sister engine Army No.92 'Waggoner', which arrived on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway in February 2005. In May 2008 the National Army Museum transferred the ownership of both Army locomotives to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.

 

 

 

 

 

HUNSLET AUSTERITY 0-6-0ST Army No.

92

'Waggoner'

 

 

 

Built by the Hunslet Engine Co. as HE3792 it was delivered to the Army in January 1953 and was one of the very final batch of 14 locomotives of the 'Austerity' type to be ordered by the War Department. Numbered WD192 it was put to work on the Longmoor Military Railway in Hampshire. In July 1955 it was reported to be working at Histon and in May 1959 it was at Bicester. By May 1961 it was in store at the Royal Engineers Stores Depot, Long Marston. In 1968 it was renumbered WD92 and named 'Waggoner' in recognition of its service with the Royal Corps of Transport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Waggoner' at Havenstreet on the day of it's arrival - 26th February 2005.

 

 

 

 

In April 1969 the locomotive was stored at P&EE Shoeburyness. 1974 saw No.92 transferred to Marchwood Military Port, Southampton, in order to work the internal passenger train service. It continued to work around the dock yard system until 1979 when it's ten-yearly boiler overhaul was due. 'Waggoner' returned to Shoeburyness for the boiler work and a heavy overhaul, a boiler repair facility was maintained at Shoeburyness by the Army Railway Organisation in order to repair the steam cranes that were still in use on the ranges there. The overhaul included a repaint into Longmoor Military Railway Oxford Blue livery, with red lining. On being declared fit for use 'Waggoner' was, along with sister engine WD198 'Royal Engineer', passed into the care of the Royal Corps of Transport Institution which at that time had responsibility for historic Royal Corps of Transport artefacts. Agreement was reached that the loco be retained and used at Shoeburyness as a VIP train with the historic 'Kitchener' coach, the MOD paying for it's continued use and insurance. It was seldom steamed and fortunately spent most of its time stored under cover. 'Waggoner's very last task at Shoeburyness was to move the Army's only surviving rail-borne gun, which had been parked on a short siding at Shoebury for many years. This 18" gun had a total weight estimated at about 180 tons and it was known that at least one of the axles had seized solid. Immediately forward of the gun position the siding ran across a level crossing, which was set in concrete. Due to the soft nature of the terrain, the track under the gun had sunk by at least a foot leaving a short, sharp climb up to the crossing. A pair of diesel locomotives had failed to budge this monster, but using a double coupling and full regulator, No.92 lifted the whole thing up and across the level crossing. Such is the power of steam. The Gun and it's carriage can now be seen outside the former Royal Artillery Barracks at Woolwich although there are plans to move it to the Royal School of Artillery at Larkhill in Wiltshire at some time in the future.

 

 

 

 

In June 1984 'Waggoner' was taken to Rushmoor Arena, Aldershot for what proved to be the final Aldershot Army Show, where it was exhibited as part of the Royal Corps of Transport display. During the two-day show 'Waggoner' was kept in steam with the regulator handle bolted closed, the footplate being visited by over 50,000 people, most of whom contrived to blow the whistle! This was to be it's final steaming in Army hands and, after the show, 'Waggoner' was loaded onto a Royal Engineers trailer, (which had a stated maximum load capability of only 35 tons!), and was taken to the Museum of Army Transport, Beverley, for permanent exhibition. Apart from one brief spell when it was loaned for display to a theme park in the Midlands 'Waggoner' remained at Beverley. Direct responsibility for both No.92 and No.198 passed to the National Army Museum in 2001. In the summer of 2003 the Museum of Army Transport was unfortunately forced to close by financial problems and, following a period in store, the National Army Museum decided to place 'Waggoner' on loan to the IWSR. where it can now be seen alongside sister engine WD198 'Royal Engineer'.

 

 

 

 

 

'Waggoner' at Smallbrook Junction - May 2006.

 

'Waggoner' was moved by road from Beverley to the Isle of Wight, arriving at Havenstreet on 26th February 2005. An initial inspection of the boiler and mechanical parts was carried out shortly after arrival and the work necessary to return her to service, including a boiler re-tube and the fitting of Westinghouse air brake equipment, was rapidly completed. 'Waggoner' was steamed for the first time in almost twenty two years during May 2006. In May 2008 the National Army Museum transferred the ownership of both Army locomotives to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway.

 

 

[Great War truck]

Might it be one of the carriages from Dora?

 

Now that would be something. Sadly it is not quite so exciting, but still very interesting to the likes of us. I think i have a picture of it in use. Must go and have a look for it now.

 

Tim

[CommanderChuff]

You will of course all know what this is then:

 

 

Located at Didcot Railway Centre, GWR Pollen E, used for transporting naval guns, made up of 4 wagons with rotating turntables, (x2 3 axle x2 4 axle) closely and permamently coupled, one of my modelling projects to be.

 

David

[Great War truck]

Thats the one. I have still not found that photo of it in use, but it is a remarkable survivor.

 

Tim

[alan turner (RIP)]

I found this image amongst the RAWHS sets and a few more train images

[Grasshopper]

That Fowler certainly wouldn't win any awards for "prettiest shunter"! Looks very purposeful though.

[Tony B]

At one time Woolwich had about 120 miles of standard and narrow gauge, a link to the mainline plus in own fleet of 6 motor vessels, the 2 gun barges, Gog aand Maygog, and it's own version of the Blue Ensign. There was also a gas works, located just to the South of where Belmarsh prision is now.